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Valedictorian rips approved speech!

davidtaylorjr said:
Apparently you don't know what is involved in making a law in Congress. It doesn't happen by a student giving a speech.
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that's right ... it begins with a lobbyist making a speech and handing over some money ...:2usflag:
 
windowdressing said:
agree ... what he did was engage in an act of civil disobedience and not only should he expect a penalty of some sort, but he should hope for it ... that's the point of civil disobedience after all ...
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But does ToscaI agree?
Nothing she has written on this post seems to indicate that she does,and when I pressed her for a definitive "yes or no"answer,everyone saw EXACTLY what she did.
 
Verthaine said:
But does ToscaI agree?
Nothing she has written on this post seems to indicate that she does,and when I pressed her for a definitive "yes or no"answer,everyone saw EXACTLY what she did.
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I've been arrested a few of times for protesting ... the last time was a long time ago - protesting the funding of the contras ... we counted on being arrested and were pleased when we were - it drew attenton to the issue ... we even got television crews at the police station to interview us and we were on the nightly news ...
 
windowdressing said:
I've been arrested a few of times for protesting ... the last time was a long time ago - protesting the funding of the contras ... we counted on being arrested and were pleased when we were - it drew attenton to the issue ... we even got television crews at the police station to interview us and we were on the nightly news ...
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That's cool.I grew up in the deep south during the civil rights movement and saw first hand exactly what my parents went through to insure that I,their child, has a
better future. Believe me,I am very very appreciative of the hardships they endured for my sake.
I on the other hand,have never been one for going out and getting arrested for civil disobedience (I have kids myself,and I know what I myself went through having to witness the arrests and beatings my parents endured.I didn't want to put my own children through that). I'm more of a "here's a big fat check to help out the cause and provide bail" kind of guy.:shrug:
 
Wiseone said:
No, religion is not under attack because a high schooler was required to follow a pre-approved script that he wrote. Drop the prosecution mentality.
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You got that right....they want him to read a script, alright!

That's what they do in dictatorial countries. The media have to follow a pre-approved message! They have to follow the script, or else.....
 
windowdressing said:
I don't know about that, but his concerns, ideas, etc. are more consistent by and large with contemporary liberal thought, don't you think?
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No. He isn't self centered. He was selfless. Big difference. Render unto Caesar. He didnt care about taxes from the government. His concern was not to upset the status quo if politics. He was there to fulfill Earthly law and settle the debt out sins owe.
 
stonewall50 said:
No. He isn't self centered. He was selfless. Big difference. Render unto Caesar. He didnt care about taxes from the government. His concern was not to upset the status quo if politics. He was there to fulfill Earthly law and settle the debt out sins owe.
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Yeah, that's a bit inappropriate and rebellious.
 
Verthaine said:
That's cool.I grew up in the deep south during the civil rights movement and saw first hand exactly what my parents went through to insure that I,their child, has a
better future. Believe me,I am very very appreciative of the hardships they endured for my sake.
I on the other hand,have never been one for going out and getting arrested for civil disobedience (I have kids myself,and I know what I myself went through having to witness the arrests and beatings my parents endured.I didn't want to put my own children through that). I'm more of a "here's a big fat check to help out the cause and provide bail" kind of guy.:shrug:
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we all do what we can, and as I said, only a few times ... sounds like your folks endured much more than I ever did ... I'm a Latino and the Civil rights movement not only gave blacks a better future, it gave us a better one as well, and inspired other movements as well ... extraordinary people who did that for us ... I work hard and do social justice work to show my appreciation for what they did ...
 
stonewall50 said:
No. He isn't self centered. He was selfless. Big difference. Render unto Caesar. He didnt care about taxes from the government. His concern was not to upset the status quo if politics. He was there to fulfill Earthly law and settle the debt out sins owe.
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I'm an agnostic, raised Catholic, and simply don't buy the stuff about him being the son of God, etc., so no point you and I getting into that kind of a discussion ... cons today remind me much more of social darwinists than they do Jesus, or at least the Jesus I was told about in catechism ... take care ...
 
tosca1 said:
You got that right....they want him to read a script, alright!

That's what they do in dictatorial countries. The media have to follow a pre-approved message! They have to follow the script, or else.....
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or else what? and tell me more about that script that all media, including FOX and MSNBC, have to follow or else ...
 
windowdressing said:
I'm an agnostic, raised Catholic, and simply don't buy the stuff about him being the son of God, etc., so no point you and I getting into that kind of a discussion ... cons today remind me much more of social darwinists than they do Jesus, or at least the Jesus I was told about in catechism ... take care ...
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So what you are saying is that once engaged in the discussion PAST face value...a face value argument that requires a reliance on stereotypes that are not at all accurate to the individuals...you don't have anything to contribute. Well thank you come again.

Ps

You don't have to believe Jesus is the son of God to read in depth into Mathew -John. All I referenced had nothing to do actually believing. Just reading.
 
stonewall50 said:
So what you are saying is that once engaged in the discussion PAST face value...a face value argument that requires a reliance on stereotypes that are not at all accurate to the individuals...you don't have anything to contribute. Well thank you come again.

Ps

You don't have to believe Jesus is the son of God to read in depth into Mathew -John. All I referenced had nothing to do actually believing. Just reading.
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I read Matthew-John in my early years .... as I got older I found more credible sources ... take care stone ...
 
windowdressing said:
I read Matthew-John in my early years .... as I got older I found more credible sources ... take care stone ...
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More credible sources on Jesus than the 4 Gospels that talk directly about him? I am talking specifically about your claim that "Jesus was a liberal."
 
[QUOTE=stonewall5

Stine, one more response to you, then you'll have to go bother someone else ... look at Jesus's supposed teachings and look at the party platforms and policies of both parties ... what's the better match? take care ...
 
tosca1 said:
You got that right....they want him to read a script, alright!

That's what they do in dictatorial countries. The media have to follow a pre-approved message! They have to follow the script, or else.....
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I don't know if you could be bothered to read or understand the three words following "pre-approved script" or if the stupid was already boiling over and impacting your judgement, but those words were "that he wrote."
 
windowdressing said:
stonewall5 Stine said:
Again. A surface level argument based on a stereotypical view of democrats and republicans. Jesus wasn't a fan of politics and frequently avoided it. That is discussed in all 4 books.

As for part platform: 1 believes in mandatory welfare and the other believes in self motivated charity. I could go on, but I am willing to bet your notion of "party platform" is really just based on what you think Republicans believe.
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stonewall50 said:
windowdressing said:
Again. A surface level argument based on a stereotypical view of democrats and republicans. Jesus wasn't a fan of politics and frequently avoided it. That is discussed in all 4 books.

As for part platform: 1 believes in mandatory welfare and the other believes in self motivated charity. I could go on, but I am willing to bet your notion of "party platform" is really just based on what you think Republicans believe.
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Are you serious? You are aware that the Republicans put out a platform at their convention, as did the Dems, right? Look at what they vote for and against ... Are you saying that ther platform and voting says nothing about what they believe?
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windowdressing said:
stonewall50 said:
Are you serious? You are aware that the Republicans put out a platform at their convention, as did the Dems, right? Look at what they vote for and against ... Are you saying that ther platform and voting says nothing about what they believe?
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So a plan to build the Economy is now a selfish act? Creating jobs? Regardless of your stereotypical view of Republicans...you can't actually believe that the PLATFORM would say, "All about me. Feed the rich." Right? Why not quote me some of this platform of which you speak.

Then tell me how "Jesus like" it is to just give welfare. Do you remember the parable of the servants and the investing? A confusing parable for children, but it speaks volumes about work ethic.

But at any rate I am not saying Jesus was a Republican. That concept didn't exist then. He wasn't into politics then though. So my guess is he wouldn't be now either. At any rate I am against trying to politicize any larger than life historical figure. It really goes against my history degree.
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stonewall50 said:
windowdressing said:
So a plan to build the Economy is now a selfish act? Creating jobs? Regardless of your stereotypical view of Republicans...you can't actually believe that the PLATFORM would say, "All about me. Feed the rich." Right? Why not quote me some of this platform of which you speak.

Then tell me how "Jesus like" it is to just give welfare. Do you remember the parable of the servants and the investing? A confusing parable for children, but it speaks volumes about work ethic.

But at any rate I am not saying Jesus was a Republican. That concept didn't exist then. He wasn't into politics then though. So my guess is he wouldn't be now either. At any rate I am against trying to politicize any larger than life historical figure. It really goes against my history degree.
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time to move on ... but I'll leave you with this ... I think you'll find it somewhat interesting ... take care ...

Biblical Quotes Supporting the Belief that Jesus Is A Liberal

Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist
not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your
enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute
you; [Matthew 5:44]

The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]

Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest
you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to
you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]

Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the
merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your
trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]

Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other
sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle;
he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against
all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will
be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the
things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]

Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you.
[Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
[Matthew 19:21]

Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed,
because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]

Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret…
[Matthew 6:6 & 7]

Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take
hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]

Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]
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windowdressing said:
stonewall50 said:
time to move on ... but I'll leave you with this ... I think you'll find it somewhat interesting ... take care ...

Biblical Quotes Supporting the Belief that Jesus Is A Liberal

Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist
not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your
enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute
you; [Matthew 5:44]

The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]

Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest
you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to
you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]

Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the
merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your
trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]

Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other
sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle;
he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against
all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will
be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the
things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]

Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you.
[Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
[Matthew 19:21]

Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed,
because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]

Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret…
[Matthew 6:6 & 7]

Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take
hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]

Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]
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So you are saying that Republicans cannot follow these and still be republican,
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stonewall50 said:
windowdressing said:
So you are saying that Republicans cannot follow these and still be republican,
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sure they can, and in fact they better, if they want to regain the White House ... but so far they think it's just a matter of messaging, not positions or policies ... you keep referring to all this as stereotypes ... I see it as actions that define us ... who we are is not simply who we say we are, but rather what we do and the things we say ... that's who we really are, and that's what a party really represents ...

but this has taken us far afield ... suffice it to say that the guy engaged in an act of civil disobedience and kudos to him even if I don't agree with him - but if there are consequences, and he should hope there are, I hope he doesn't whine ...
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