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Organized religion on the verge of extinction?

Amadeus said:
I'm just curious if there is any other way to cope with a horrible existence other than turning to faith. Perhaps when disabilities are cured or mitigated through science, hope will be grounded in reason rather than the supernatural.
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Disease is not the only means a man is "broken."
 
Amadeus said:
A good message is a good message, regardless of where it comes from. I even look to religions and mythologies for philosophy, just not for morality.
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The Christian religion comes with morality. After all, if God does not exists - what kind of a world will we be living in?
If we think there is misery now.....what more when there is no absolute moral standard? Just think about it.
 
tosca1 said:
The Christian religion comes with morality. After all, if God does not exists - what kind of a world will we be living in?
If we think there is misery now.....what more when there is no absolute moral standard? Just think about it.
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I am not sure what you are suggesting.
 
Amadeus said:
Because many (most) religions eventually die out and become mythologies. Very few people worship Thor, except as a novelty.
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Viktyr mind find that assertion offensive. While I do not share his pagan faith, he seems to be extremely sincere and serious about it. I don't think novelty has anything to do with it necessarily.
 
tosca1

The Christian religion comes with morality. After all, if God does not exists - what kind of a world will we be living in?
If we think there is misery now.....what more when there is no absolute moral standard? Just think about it.

Amadeus said:
I am not sure what you are suggesting.
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Here are clips from a long article by William Lane Craig, "Can We Be Good Without God?" Why God is the only sound foundation for morality.


First, if God exists, objective moral values exist. To say that there are objective moral values is to say that something is right or wrong independently of whether anybody believes it to be so. It is to say, for example, that Nazi anti-Semitism was morally wrong, even though the Nazis who carried out the Holocaust thought that it was good; and it would still be wrong even if the Nazis had won World War II and succeeded in exterminating or brainwashing everybody who disagreed with them.

Contrast this with the atheistic hypothesis. First, if atheism is true, objective moral values do not exist. If God does not exist, then what is the foundation for moral values? More particularly, what is the basis for the value of human beings? If God does not exist, then it is difficult to see any reason to think that human beings are special or that their morality is objectively true. Moreover, why think that we have any moral obligations to do anything? Who or what imposes any moral duties upon us?

Thus, if naturalism is true, it becomes impossible to condemn war, oppression, or crime as evil. Nor can one praise brotherhood, equality, or love as good. It does not matter what values you choose—for there is no right and wrong; good and evil do not exist. That means that an atrocity like the Holocaust was really morally indifferent. You may think that it was wrong, but your opinion has no more validity than that of the Nazi war criminal who thought it was good.
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Read more: Can We Be Good without God? | Reasonable Faith
 
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tosca1 said:
Here are clips from a long article by William Lane Craig, "Can We Be Good Without God?" Why God is the only sound foundation for morality.



Read more: Can We Be Good without God? | Reasonable Faith
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There are a few religions and societies based on those religions who do not have a god and are moral. Buddhism comes to mind and Confuscianism So societies based on these two and I am sure I could come up with more if I thought about it, shows one does not have to have a god to have a moralistic society.
 
Perotista said:
There are a few religions and societies based on those religions who do not have a god and are moral. Buddhism comes to mind and Confuscianism So societies based on these two and I am sure I could come up with more if I thought about it, shows one does not have to have a god to have a moralistic society.
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We're not talking about whether one believes in God or not. If God exists, He exists - whether we believe in Him or not. This is about the existence of God.
 
tosca1 said:
We're not talking about whether one believes in God or not. If God exists, He exists - whether we believe in Him or not. This is about the existence of God.
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Here I thought you were talking about a moralistic society. That is what the author you quoted said. No problem.
 
tosca1 said:
Here are clips from a long article by William Lane Craig, "Can We Be Good Without God?" Why God is the only sound foundation for morality.
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I'm afraid that I find that argument to be intellectually dishonest and observably wrong. The fact that morality exists in the absence of God is proof that God is not required to be a moral person. If you need God to tell you that the Holocaust was wrong, then perhaps your morality is malfunctioning. Not the morality of the atheist.
 
Amadeus said:
I'm afraid that I find that argument to be intellectually dishonest and observably wrong. The fact that morality exists in the absence of God is proof that God is not required to be a moral person. If you need God to tell you that the Holocaust was wrong, then perhaps your morality is malfunctioning. Not the morality of the atheist.
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You are assuming the absence of God. But the fact that objective moral standards exists is proof that God exists.
Just because the atheist does not believe in the existence of God does not mean it's true.

Moreover, if atheism is true, there is no moral accountability for one’s actions. Even if there were objective moral values and duties under naturalism, they are irrelevant because there is no moral accountability. If life ends at the grave, it makes no difference whether one lives as a Stalin or as a saint. As the Russian writer Fyodor Dostoyevsky rightly said: “If there is no immortality, then all things are permitted.”7

The state torturers in Soviet prisons understood this all too well. Richard Wurmbrand reports,

The cruelty of atheism is hard to believe when man has no faith in the reward of good or the punishment of evil. There is no reason to be human. There is no restraint from the depths of evil which is in man. The Communist torturers often said, ‘There is no God, no hereafter, no punishment for evil. We can do what we wish.’ I have heard one torturer even say, ‘I thank God, in whom I don’t believe, that I have lived to this hour when I can express all the evil in my heart.’ He expressed it in unbelievable brutality and torture inflected on prisoners.8
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Read more: Can We Be Good without God? | Reasonable Faith

Accountability in this context btw, relates to your other thread, "What is the point of heaven?"
 
Amadeus,

Naturalism is the most popular form of atheism, which maintains that the things described by the best scientific theories are the only things that exists. Science however, is morally neutral. The atheist won't find moral values in test tubes. That follows immediately that moral values don't really exist; they're just man-made illusions.
 
tosca1 said:
Amadeus,

Naturalism is the most popular form of atheism, which maintains that the things described by the best scientific theories are the only things that exists. Science however, is morally neutral. The atheist won't find moral values in test tubes. That follows immediately that moral values don't really exist; they're just man-made illusions.
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tosca, why do you not follow the paths laid out by the Great Buddha? You are only destroying yourself and prolonging your suffering if you do not walk the eightfold path with me
 
Zariak said:
tosca, why do you not follow the paths laid out by the Great Buddha? You are only destroying yourself and prolonging your suffering if you do not walk the eightfold path with me
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Eh? What suffering are you talking about? If you're referring to human sufferings....yes I do have those, too, like everyone else.

Anyway who needs trekking on eightfold paths when the Only One is very much sufficient! And it leads direct to the destination! :lol:

Why don't you join me instead. I invite you, Zariak to know Jesus.

C'mon. There is no second chances after you've snuffed this one life you live. Don't waste it.
 
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tosca1 said:
Eh? Who needs eightfold path when Only One is very much sufficient! :lol:
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Ah, but you see, the eightfold path is one path. It is the path to nirvana.
 
tosca1 said:
Amadeus,

Naturalism is the most popular form of atheism, which maintains that the things described by the best scientific theories are the only things that exists. Science however, is morally neutral. The atheist won't find moral values in test tubes. That follows immediately that moral values don't really exist; they're just man-made illusions.
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Not a bad summary of a great position.
 
tosca1 said:
It says:



The article is talking about western-style democratic countries. And they're talking about "organized religion." Christianity will still be around even if organized religion becomes extinct.

I can only relate to Christianity....but we're really getting a lot of converts from other countries that are not under democratic rule. It's like the early church under the Roman empire when Christians meet in secret.

The Christian mission is not to convert. The mission is to spread the good news.
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I've read that with languages they start disappearing faster as less people speak them. What if religion is the same way, and once it's a minority of peolpe practicing it, because it is dying down, it starts to disappear increasingly quickly?
 
Gathomas88 said:
In the West? Perhaps.

However, in terms of overall global relevance and cultural influence, the Western world is in all but full on decline right now, so I wouldn't say that this fact is particularly meaningful on a global scale. The vast majority of the human race is still extremely religious in the more traditional sense of the word.

I don't see this fact changing any time soon.



Nonsense. The Church isn't anywhere near as wealthy as you seem to believe, and the vast majority of its income goes towards charitable causes like education and healthcare anyway.

The Economist

Furthermore, while 170 billion dollars might seem like a lot, it should be noted that the Church isn't even worth half as much as Walmart.

Walmart Networth

A two thousand year old institution with global outreach has money? Stop the presses! :roll:
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Make sure you don't put me in same group as this other person you quoted. I think religion serves a good necessary purpose, and Pope Francis mentioned the child abuse that's going in the catholic establishment. I'm speculation about new religions popping up that address current issues considering most religions today are outdated in many ways.
 
lizzie said:
I hope not. There are a great many people who need it.
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I think religion serves a good necessary purpose, and Pope Francis mentioned the child abuse that's going in the catholic establishment. I'm speculating about new religions popping up that address current issues considering most religions today are outdated in many ways.
 
sbrettt said:
I think religion serves a good necessary purpose, and Pope Francis mentioned the child abuse that's going in the catholic establishment. I'm speculating about new religions popping up that address current issues considering most religions today are outdated in many ways.
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It's possible, but I'll guess "divinity" is on the way out like thinking the sky is a sort of domelike thing died out...............
 
Bonzai said:
It's possible, but I'll guess "divinity" is on the way out like thinking the sky is a sort of domelike thing died out...............
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Good evening, Bonz. :2wave:

Are you trying to tell me it's not a domelike thing? So what holds the air in so it doesn't all fly out into space? Huh? Huh?

Believe it or not, I was once asked this question, and it wasn't a child that asked! :shock:
 
polgara said:
Good evening, Bonz. :2wave:

Are you trying to tell me it's not a domelike thing? So what holds the air in so it doesn't all fly out into space? Huh? Huh?

Believe it or not, I was once asked this question, and it wasn't a child that asked! :shock:
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Hi. There is no "space"...........The universe consists of the flat earth covered with this big domelike thing and the stars are just lights hanging on strings..........You've been listening to too many liberals....................
 
Bonzai said:
Hi. There is no "space"...........The universe consists of the flat earth covered with this big domelike thing and the stars are just lights hanging on strings..........You've been listening to too many liberals....................
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Good one! Too bad you're never around when I have to answer questions like that! :lamo: You could keep 'em entertained for hours! :doh:
 
polgara said:
Good evening, Bonz. :2wave:

Are you trying to tell me it's not a domelike thing? So what holds the air in so it doesn't all fly out into space? Huh? Huh?

Believe it or not, I was once asked this question, and it wasn't a child that asked! :shock:
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I thought I told you not to repeat my question to anyone, ever. I suppose it isn't the end of the world. It's not like I had any credibility before you spilled the beans, or anything. Besides, I've since found out it's not a dome. It's more like one of those flat-topped plate covers, anyway. Main cause of global warming, too.
 
humbolt said:
I thought I told you not to repeat my question to anyone, ever. I suppose it isn't the end of the world. It's not like I had any credibility before you spilled the beans, or anything. Besides, I've since found out it's not a dome. It's more like one of those flat-topped plate covers, anyway. Main cause of global warming, too.
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Good morning, humbolt! :2wave:

Excellent!....... :clap: ......... :rofl:
 
polgara said:
Good morning, humbolt! :2wave:

Excellent!....... :clap: ......... :rofl:
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Morning Pol. Did your vegetable survive the cold? And in a tip of the hat to the thread: Yes. Everything is in various stages of dissolution. The end is near. What will life on earth be like without humankind, and more importantly, who will report it? Wait a minute....
 
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