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The Definition of a "Christian"

jmotivator said:
Matthew 7:1-5

"1 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 “Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."
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Ah! Well, I'm not judging anyone. I'm simply offering a definition for "Christian". Do you agree, disagree and why?
 
The Baron said:
Ah! Well, I'm not judging anyone. I'm simply offering a definition for "Christian". Do you agree, disagree and why?
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Ah, but you are. You are judging people on whether they are Christian by the very act of defining what it is to be Christian. It's a deeply personal relationship between you and God, just focus on that and leave others to their own path.
 
The old whether Catholics are christians debate used to boil down to the fact that many Catholics are taught you can only reach salvation through the Church. Most non-Catholic christians don't believe you need the middleman.
 
jmotivator said:
Ah, but you are. You are judging people on whether they are Christian by the very act of defining what it is to be Christian. It's a deeply personal relationship between you and God, just focus on that and leave others to their own path.
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When I say I'm not judging anyone I mean that I'm not making any attempt to brand anyone as "good" or "bad". But I am trying to establish what is and what is not a "Christian". There really doesn't seem to be any agreement on the subject.
 
The Baron said:
When I say I'm not judging anyone I mean that I'm not making any attempt to brand anyone as "good" or "bad". But I am trying to establish what is and what is not a "Christian". There really doesn't seem to be any agreement on the subject.
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Are you not acting as a judge when you say that some people who self-identify as Christian are not "real" Christians? Perhaps Jesus is perfectly fine with them doing what they do and considers them to be "real" Christians, despite your judgement otherwise. Is it not Jesus' job to establish who is or is not a Christian?
 
Tucker Case said:
Are you not acting as a judge when you say that some people who self-identify as Christian are not "real" Christians? Perhaps Jesus is perfectly fine with them doing what they do and considers them to be "real" Christians, despite your judgement otherwise. Is it not Jesus' job to establish who is or is not a Christian?
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And it seems that Jesus will be doing that very thing:

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

So wouldn’t you agree that this is a very important subject that everyone should examine very carefully before they do meet the good Lord?
 
The Baron said:
And it seems that Jesus will be doing that very thing:

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”
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As he should, since it's his job.

So wouldn’t you agree that this is a very important subject that everyone should examine very carefully before they do meet the good Lord?
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I think that, ultimately, it is between them and Jesus. It's not like I (or anyone other human being) have the ability to save anyone's soul.
 
Tucker Case said:
I think that, ultimately, it is between them and Jesus. It's not like I (or anyone other human being) have the ability to save anyone's soul.
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Obviously, nobody here is trying to do that. Just trying to have a conversation.
 
A Christian is someone who follows Christ - who had accepted Him as His Lord and Saviour. It involves repentance (which is manifested in our change of attitude and lifestyle). And by the word, "follow," means to try to adhere to His teachings.
For our own protection, that we may not be misled by false teachings, it is imperative to read and understand the Bible.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
heh

I'm struggling to see how a Catholic is NOT a Christian . . . All Catholics are Christians - not all Christians are Catholics.

The fundamentals are the same, the Holy Book is the same - the differences are not in the essentials of the beliefs. Same Holy Book, Same God, Same major views and stories = Christians.

Someone who tries to argue otherwise really doesn't know much - honestly. . . and maybe should read up on the history of religion, and the countless views written on it by papal scholars. I might disaprove of the Catholic church but if they call their selves Christians - I'm going to sort of go with them on that.
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I once fell into the trap of heatedly debating with Catholics, only to realize how wrong I was about questioning their faith in such a way. I read on a verse (I can't recall which), but it did say that by doing so it's like I've put a stumbling block on those who are already trying to work on their faith (or something along that).
I ended up posting a heartfelt apology and promptly withdrew.
 
tosca1 said:
I once fell into the trap of heatedly debating with Catholics, only to realize how wrong I was about questioning their faith in such a way. I read on a verse (I can't recall which), but it did say that by doing so it's like I've put a stumbling block on those who are already trying to work on their faith (or something along that).
I ended up posting a heartfelt apology and promptly withdrew.
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Hmm - my Dad always said hte opposite: debate is good - it strengthens the soul.

The majority of people probably haven't read their holy book.
 
The Baron said:
So it seems to me that what we need here at DP is a good definition of “Christian”.

A “Christian” is someone who understands that they are a sinner and unfit for a just and holy God and deserve everlasting Hell.

A “Christian” also understands that what a holy God requires the love of God provided when no-less than God, Himself, came to this world in a physical body, born of a virgin and died an excruciating death on a cross. He died to pay the price for their sins and to rescue them from Hell by imparting in them the very righteousness of Christ, Himself.

A “Christian” understands that they are absolutely helpless to save themselves and that Christ’s free gift of grace is all that is required for their salvation--nothing more.

A “Christian” is someone who undergoes a change of heart (vs. a change in position as some would argue, i.e. the “rich man” who must give away all his possessions to obtain eternal life).

I’m sure I could elaborate but that’s really all there is to it.

So what’s wrong with my definition of a Christian?
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1. Depends on you're understanding of origional sin, and atonement, also on what "hell" is.

2. You're assuming trinitarianism, although plenty of christians were not trinitarians, infact some of the earliest didn't accept ANY diety of christ (ebonites, nazarines and so on).

3. You're assuming salvation by grace alone and not works, this is the Pauline/James distinction, and the NT can be interpreted both ways.

4. Sure, assuming he is a convert.

It's rediculous to put a definition of Christianity beyond "follower of Christ," because any definition will assume theology that is simply YOUR theology.
 
RGacky3 said:
It's rediculous to put a definition of Christianity beyond "follower of Christ," because any definition will assume theology that is simply YOUR theology.
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1. It makes an eternall difference. If Christ were just a man then we're all screwed. But if He is God then we all have hope and salvation through Him.

2. Differences in theology will be the basis for this debate.

3. My theology is quite mainstream and you are still dodging my question. What is your religion?
 
The Baron said:
1. It makes an eternall difference. If Christ were just a man then we're all screwed. But if He is God then we all have hope and salvation through Him.

2. Differences in theology will be the basis for this debate.

3. My theology is quite mainstream and you are still dodging my question. What is your religion?
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1. It depends on your view of slavation.

2. The difference is I'm not going to say that people who have honest differences in theology are "not christian."

3. 6th day creationism is NOT mainstream, neither is biblical literalism, I'm not dodging the question, I'm not going into my religion.
 
jmotivator said:
Ah, but you are. You are judging people on whether they are Christian by the very act of defining what it is to be Christian. It's a deeply personal relationship between you and God, just focus on that and leave others to their own path.
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You are conflating two similar, but different things.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Hmm - my Dad always said hte opposite: debate is good - it strengthens the soul.

The majority of people probably haven't read their holy book.
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"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another". The trick is to make sure that those well intentioned wounds are in fact being inflicted by a friend.
 
The Baron said:
And it seems that Jesus will be doing that very thing:

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

So wouldn’t you agree that this is a very important subject that everyone should examine very carefully before they do meet the good Lord?
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Yes ... Jesus will be doing it, not us, I suggest you read the rest of the Chapter.

“Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. 2 For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s[a] eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your neighbor, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s[c] eye."

Then he states the golden rule, THEN he talks about the narrow gate and those saying "lord lord"

The Judging is what Christ will do.
 
My Personal opinion is that what is much more important than Doctrine and belief, is your attitude,
Mark 12: - 30 "you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

If one really lives that way will show if one is acting like a Christian, or following Christ.
 
Libertas-Mors said:
Scripture actually does mention directly the rituals or sacraments of baptism and the Eucharist. Furthermore, it always surprises me when I see posts that want to reduce Christianity to the words of Jesus yet they accept the matured theology of the great Ecumenical Councils such as the two natures of Christ (Chalcedon), the Trinity (Nicaea), or the dogmatization of the biblical canon, for example.
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How is defining Christianity by the teachings of Jesus "reducing" it? Surely that's the essence of the faith.
 
The Baron said:
And it seems that Jesus will be doing that very thing:

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

So wouldn’t you agree that this is a very important subject that everyone should examine very carefully before they do meet the good Lord?
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You've misunderstood that passage.

See my response below to Rainman.
 
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lizzie said:
Having been raised in a devout Christian environment, I can see where that tendency comes from, as many Christians believe that faith alone (and a symbolic acceptance) is the path to salvation, and some will tend to ignore the practice of His teaching, as it opposes much of the old testament text as old Judaic law. Fortunately, my parents were what I consider Christian in faith and in action, so I got a pretty good look at what a Christian should be.
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Christianity opposes none of the Old Testament text.
 
Rainman05 said:
I'm a Christian and I find any attempt of the OP to define Christianity or a Christian outside of the normal definition is stupid.

A Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ and accepts him as his Savior.

Everything else is secondary.
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What does it mean to accept Jesus Christ?

Is it possible to "accept" Him without knowing Him?

This is the meaning of the passage "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

To know and accept Christ is to know and accept his teachings. His teachings are what survive Him.

The teachings of Christ, also known as "the word," are the Holy Spirit. It is by the Holy Spirit that we are saved.

So, if you want to be saved, read the sermon on the mount. Understand it, and take it to heart.
 
Peter Grimm said:
What does it mean to accept Jesus Christ?

Is it possible to "accept" Him without knowing Him?

This is the meaning of the passage "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

To know and accept Christ is to know and accept his teachings. His teachings are what survive Him.

The teachings of Christ, also known as "the word," are the Holy Spirit. It is by the Holy Spirit that we are saved.

So, if you want to be saved, read the sermon on the mount. Understand it, and take it to heart.
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To accept him means to recognize him as your Lord and Savior. The method by which you take in his teachings doesn't make you a Christian or not, it makes you a good Christian, a bad Christian, a disciple, a casual Christian, etc.

To put it in perspective. The Westboro baptists are still Christians, even though they do completely un-Christian things. So... they are very vile and evil Christians who will go to hell, but they are still Christians because they do believe in Jesus and think that he will meet them in the afterlife. They just don't follow anything he says. So they don't factor in that they're going to hell.
 
Captain America said:
Simply put....

Roman's 10:9

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

Notice the scripture didn't mention any particular religion, denomination, ritual or CCD classes.
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That is pretty much the thread, thanks Captain!
 
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