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BAHA'I faith - did it really come from the Judeo-Chrsitian God?

I'm just not so certain that all the people who passed on their teachings and stories, and later wrote down the scriptures about them were always correct. Even when you have the best intentions, you cannot deny a story will change with each generation telling it to the next, when it's passed down orally for 700 years.

Well, we know that the core message of the Bible had remained consistent through all these years, even with all the changes in cultures and outlook that came with those generations.

The question with Baha'i is with your prophet!

What distinguish him from the thousands of false prophets that made similar claims? None.
 
Impossible? How do you know God cannot be proven?

Oh boy.....I give up with this Baha'i. It feels like we're just going around in circles....
You're welcome to follow The Word of God....like I said, it's still a work in progress.

You want to stop already? Well, it was really nice to debate with you! You gave many interesting arguments. :)

If you ever feel like going on with this debate, or if you have any questions, just let me know. I'll gladly answer you!

But I hope you won't be annoyed when I say you did not convince me. But I think we agree on quite a few things already ... like in God, our creator. Isn't that the most important thing that matters? :)

Try to keep an open mind, don't believe without questioning, keep on searching for the truth -- and I hope this path will lead you to happiness! God bless!
 
Well, we know that the core message of the Bible had remained consistent through all these years, even with all the changes in cultures and outlook that came with those generations.

The question with Baha'i is with your prophet!

What distinguish him from the thousands of false prophets that made similar claims? None.

What distinguishes him from the prophets you believe in?

Another idea: Of course this is no scientific proof, but an idea that makes sense to me. Look at the achievements of the respective prophets. Abraham and Moses are still admired by a people of ca. 15 million. Jesus Christ is admired by ca. 2 billion humans on this planet. Mohammed's revelation by 1.2 billion. And Baha'u'llah's revelation, although only a little more than 100 years old, by 7 million people already. Why would God allow so many people following a religion that's "false"?

You can't say false prophets bear the same fruits. They either only acquire a very small fellowship, and/or they are forgotten again after a few years.
 
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You're in a tough place. It's hard to reconcile your belief in the Bible, Jesus Christ (which include His death and Resurrection), and Baha'i. They won't jive...because Baha'i contradicts the Bible.

It's either you believe the Bible is the Word of God - and if you do, then, you have to believe everything written about Jesus Christ. You can't pick-and-choose. It's one whole package deal.

Baha'i prophet says Jesus isn't who He is reputed to be - since He's lumped along just as another prophet (similar to Islamic version of Christ) alongside your prophet, Abraham etc..,

Baha'i also sees nothing wrong with idolatry. God's wrath really gets provoked by idolatry. Look what happened to the Jews.
Now Baha'i is saying there's a separate rule for Hindus....and separate rules for Christians and Jews.
So God's got a double standard. Which also means he's a mean god (for punishing the Jews in such terrible ways simply because they worshipped idols). And that he is inconsistent....or confused...or makes mistakes....and he tells lies.

In other words, your prophet is saying the Judeo-Christian God - the God he claims inspired him - is not perfect.

So, no. I don't believe your god is the Judeo-Christian God. He's got neither any of those flaws.
That's why we can trust Him. The Judeo-Christian God is all perfect.
 
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You're in a tough place. It's hard to reconcile your belief in the Bible, Jesus Christ (which include His death and Resurrection), and Baha'i. They won't jive...because Baha'i contradicts the Bible.

It's either you believe the Bible is the Word of God - and if you do, then, you have to believe about everything written about Jesus Christ. You can't pick-and-choose. It's one whole package deal.

I don't believe the Bible is "the word of God". I just believe Abraham, Moses and all the other prophets existed and were divine messengers. The message they preached in their respective times, and what the many humans involved in passing on and writing down this message, may well have erred, despite best intentions.

And I believe in the things written about Jesus Christ. I just do not believe in all the theological interpretations of these descriptions, as theologicians are always fallible humans.

Baha'i prophet says Jesus isn't who He is reputed to be - since He's lumped along just as another prophet (similar to Islamic version of Christ) alongside your prophet, Abraham etc..,

Every prophet was special. Jesus was special, because he was born to a virgin and fathered by the Holy Spirit, and because he had the power to work miracles. If the miracles written in the Gospels are to be understood literally, or metaphorically, is a different question.

Baha'i also sees nothing wrong with idolatry. That there's a separate rule fro Hindus....and separate rules for Christians.
So Baha'i shows there's some double-standard with God.

No, idolatry is not allowed in the Baha'i faith.

Just like the many people who passed on the divine message of the Bible's prophets, Hindu tradition was passed on and much later written down by fallible humans who mixed a lot of their traditions into these scriptures that were not originally part of Krishna's message.
 
German guy,
How did you find your path to Christianity?

I was born a Christian. But as a young adult, I drifted away from faith. I believed in God, but it was not a strong faith - it's more like taken for granted. I got wrapped up in worldly things. Looking back - it is true that you usually see the hands of God through hindsight - God had directly intervened in some situations to help me inspite of how I mistreated Him. Oh yes, I prayed when I was in trouble. One was an instant reply. I applied for a regular job becaue I needed to have a regular income (I was a newly-hired casual then). Human resources said I had no chance at the position since there were 7 senior employees who also applied for the job. I remember crying that night and praying. The next morning I got a call from my employment. Human resources said all 7 senior applicants turned down the position, therefore it's mine. AND YET, I still kept away from God. Years later I felt this void inside like something was terribly missing. I knew it's my faith. I remembered my late father how he read the Bible everyday, and I said to myself that someday I'll do the same thing. But I never opened the Bible.
One night I asked God a question (it's just a question in my head). The next morning, the radio was on and it played a short clip of the late Pope's message (who just died then). My ears perked up....because in this short clip it seemed he was talking to me, and answering my question. I remembered saying to my husband, "he answered my question!" Btw, I don't normally listen to the radio. I think God was preparing me to be more receptive.

A few days later, I was surfing the channel when I stumbled on an evangelist named Charles Price (The Living Truth), and he was talking about the rocky road to faith. I got glued to the program. He read passages from the Bible and explained them in such simple ways that he made it seem so easy to read and understand the Bible. I ended up opening my Bible, and I've been reading portions of it everyday ever since- just like my father did - and will do so until I can physically do no more. When I found Pastor Price, we were facing a very difficult time in our life.....we were losing our business, and the big possibility of losing everything.

My husband and I read a tragedy in the papers. A farmer had lost all his 9 children and pregnant wife in a fire. He was a staunch Christian, and through his brother he made it known that his loss did not lessen his faith, in fact the more he'll cling to faith. My husband and I were both crying....we were humbled. This poor man had lost his entire family and yet here we are worried about money. We decided to hand our life in God's hand and let Him do as He will. We slept well that night....and the ensuing nights even though we faced a very frightening future. No, we didn't lose everything.

These last three years was filled with adventure for me. For some reason it seemed like God had placed me in various places and situations - I just went along with the flow. So many wonderful stories happened within that 3 years - but it's a very long story.

I feel so at peace.

Pastor Price adviced us to find a local church to belong to since we have to worship with the congregation. We both became born-again, and got baptized again last summer.

Reading the Bible everyday is very important, not only because you get to understand it more....but because it helps keep me anchored. It's a compass. And yes it's true, God will sometimes "talk" to you through the verses.
 
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Tosca- if you tried to learn about the Bahai faith rather than assuming it is wrong because it is not christianity you might be surprised how similar it is.

I am not merely making an assumption. I've explained why it couldn't be the same Judeo-Christian God we're talking about.
Read my post again.

And of course being a practicing Christian, if it shows it's not my God....therefore, it is wrong. And I speak as a Christian trying to follow the dictate of my Lord.

Baha'i - from what I understand through this thread - fits in today's worldview with its philosophy of being all-inclusive!

Christianity is definitely not all-inclusive, in the sense that if you do not adhere to the conditions given by God, you don't get included.
Some liberal-thinkers would scoff and be indignant about that.....but that's just the way it is.

Christianity is not for everyone. Christ said that.

It is however, available for everyone.

God gives an invitation to come....it's up to you whether you'll accept it or not.
 
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I am not merely making an assumption. I've explained why it couldn't be the same Judeo-Christian God we're talking about.
Read my post again.

Actually, I have taken great efforts to explain and respond to your postings. You have not addressed my points. Instead you keep repeating many of the things you said before.

You have not replied to my explanation that Baha'u'llah has not more or less proof on his side than the prophets in the Bible.

You have not replied to my list of prophecies by Baha'u'llah which have been fulfilled.

You have not replied to my explanations why the many quotes you presented do not prove the existence of God or the accuracy of the Bible, although I diligently refuted your claims.

Please don't my arguments as an attack on your faith or on Christianity in general. They are really not intended to be an attack. I have deep respect for your faith and I am glad that you have found your way to God, and I hope you will be happy. Also, I have great respect for Christianity.

I just don't think Christians should confuse their belief with science. Faith and science are two different matters.
 
Matthew 7:21-23

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
 
Actually, I have taken great efforts to explain and respond to your postings. You have not addressed my points. Instead you keep repeating many of the things you said before.

You have not replied to my explanation that Baha'u'llah has not more or less proof on his side than the prophets in the Bible.

You have not replied to my list of prophecies by Baha'u'llah which have been fulfilled.

You have not replied to my explanations why the many quotes you presented do not prove the existence of God or the accuracy of the Bible, although I diligently refuted your claims.

Please don't my arguments as an attack on your faith or on Christianity in general. They are really not intended to be an attack. I have deep respect for your faith and I am glad that you have found your way to God, and I hope you will be happy. Also, I have great respect for Christianity.

I just don't think Christians should confuse their belief with science. Faith and science are two different matters.

It is pointless for me to backtrack and respond to those I've missed. Baha'i's core doctrine stood out clearly, and it contradicts the Bible.

let me re-post my previous explanation:

tosca1
You're in a tough place. It's hard to reconcile your belief in the Bible, Jesus Christ (which include His death and Resurrection), and Baha'i. They won't jive...because Baha'i contradicts the Bible.

It's either you believe the Bible is the Word of God - and if you do, then, you have to believe everything written about Jesus Christ. You can't pick-and-choose. It's one whole package deal.

Baha'i prophet says Jesus isn't who He is reputed to be - since He's lumped along just as another prophet (similar to Islamic version of Christ) alongside your prophet, Abraham etc..,

Baha'i also sees nothing wrong with idolatry. God's wrath really gets provoked by idolatry. Look what happened to the Jews.
Now Baha'i is saying there's a separate rule for Hindus....and separate rules for Christians and Jews.
So God's got a double standard. Which also means he's a mean god (for punishing the Jews in such terrible ways simply because they worshipped idols). And that he is inconsistent....or confused...or makes mistakes....and he tells lies.

In other words, your prophet is saying the Judeo-Christian God - the God he claims inspired him - is not perfect.

So, no. I don't believe your god is the Judeo-Christian God. He's got neither any of those flaws.
That's why we can trust Him. The Judeo-Christian God is all perfect.
 
Tosca, thank you very much for your story about your way to faith. I'm glad that you feel at peace. :)

This journey never ends, does it?

Reading the Bible everyday is very important, not only because you get to understand it more....but because it helps keep me anchored. It's a compass. And yes it's true, God will sometimes "talk" to you through the verses.

Yes. Reading in the scripture is important. I often read in holy scriptures too, including the Bible.

Anyway... where I was going with this question: You grew up as a Christian and you were taught by people who loved you or whom you had trust in, that the Bible is true, that Jesus is the Christ and savior, and the prophets were divine. What if you had been grown up in a Muslim family, or Baha'i family, and the people you loved and whom you had trust in, had told you that Mohammed or Baha'u'llah were divine prophets? Don't you think you would probably be a Muslim or Baha'i now?
 
It is pointless for me to backtrack and respond to those I've missed. Baha'i's core doctrine stood out clearly, and it contradicts the Bible.

let me re-post my previous explanation:

I responded to these statements in detail and explained why they are not true, in posting #30 in this thread. I just have to assume you are not addressing, but ignoring them, because you don't really have a good argument to counter it.
 
I am not merely making an assumption. I've explained why it couldn't be the same Judeo-Christian God we're talking about.
Read my post again.

Dude, I read your post. Now read mine. You have no idea what the Bahai faith is about, or what it teaches. How can you honestly dismiss something you havent looked at? Attend a Bahai service

And of course being a practicing Christian, if it shows it's not my God....therefore, it is wrong. And I speak as a Christian trying to follow the dictate of my Lord.

This is not a christian value, this is just being close minded. And for the record here, the Christain, and Bahai God are one in the same.

Christianity is definitely not all-inclusive, in the sense that if you do not adhere to the conditions given by God, you don't get included.
Some liberal-thinkers would scoff and be indignant about that.....but that's just the way it is.

Are you sure you are attending Christian church and not a cult?
 
German guy
You have not replied to my explanations why the many quotes you presented do not prove the existence of God or the accuracy of the Bible, although I diligently refuted your claims.

You have not refuted any of my claims - instead, you contradicted yours.

Please don't my arguments as an attack on your faith or on Christianity in general. They are really not intended to be an attack. I have deep respect for your faith and I am glad that you have found your way to God, and I hope you will be happy. Also, I have great respect for Christianity.

I respect your belief in your god. If you believe they're one and the same God....that's your belief. But if you try to convince me to believe in that belief....of course I'll explain it to you the way I see it.

I just don't think Christians should confuse their belief with science. Faith and science are two different matters.

I do not confuse my faith in God with science. I do not need any evidences to believe.

BUT if I'm to discuss with non-believers ( and a lot of silent readers who follow the discussion are no doubt either skeptics or non-believers), they want more than just an argument based simply on faith. Most non-believers' faith rest on science.

Anyway, I believe science was created by God for a special purpose. I tend to believe that its role could be to explain to us what God wants us to understand. And to glorify God.
 
It is pointless for me to backtrack and respond to those I've missed. Baha'i's core doctrine stood out clearly, and it contradicts the Bible.

The Bahai study and teach with the bible. That is not a contradiction.

Let me ask you a question. Do you believe that God has intervened in any way since the bible was first written or do you believe that he abandoned man since the bible was written?
 
You have not refuted any of my claims - instead, you contradicted yours.

If that is your impression, you must have misinterpreted what I wrote. Maybe I was not clear enough, sorry if that is the case. If you want to clear up these misunderstandings, just ask me, and I'll gladly explain better. :)

I respect your belief in your god. If you believe they're one and the same God....that's your belief. But if you try to convince me to believe in that belief....of course I'll explain it to you the way I see it.

Thank you.

I do not confuse my faith in God with science. I do not need any evidences to believe.

Your many postings in the "Proof for God" thread suggest otherwise.

BUT if I'm to discuss with non-believers ( and a lot of silent readers who follow the discussion are no doubt either skeptics or non-believers), they want more than just an argument based simply on faith. Most non-believers' faith rest on science.

Then let me give you a friendly advice: I don't think posting dozens of pseudo-science articles from religious apologist websites will achieve that purpose. It will only confirm the opinion of certain atheists that believers don't have a clue what science actually is.

I believe if you want to convince someone of your faith, the best and only way to do so is by giving a good example, showing people that your religion makes you a better person. :)

Anyway, I believe science was created by God for a special purpose. I tend to believe that its role could be to explain to us what God wants us to understand. And to glorify God.

I agree to some extent. God gave man reason to learn more about God's creation. But mere reason alone is not enough for a good life; you need faith too.
 
Dude, I read your post. Now read mine. You have no idea what the Bahai faith is about, or what it teaches. How can you honestly dismiss something you havent looked at? Attend a Bahai service



This is not a christian value, this is just being close minded. And for the record here, the Christain, and Bahai God are one in the same.



Are you sure you are attending Christian church and not a cult?

Yes, I'm terribly close-minded.
 
Is that it then? I guess we're done here. At least I am. There's no more to say.
 
My niece makes lasanga, is a statement of fact.


My niece makes VERY GOOD lasanga, is a statement of opinion... (it really is good though, I'm eating some now, pity I can't share it with you it's quite delicious... :mrgreen: )


My niece loves me, is a statement of belief... though I could add in her sharing of her marvelous lasangna as an evidence of her love, it is not proof....


Get where I'm going with this? (Besides enjoying my dinner, lol...)

I think you're just trying to make us crave some lasagna...

I'm hungry now... and I just ate 30min ago.

Thanks a lot!
 
I think you're just trying to make us crave some lasagna...

I'm hungry now... and I just ate 30min ago.

Thanks a lot!


Just tryin' to lighten the mood a little, while throwing a few thoughts out... :)
 
I applied for a regular job becaue I needed to have a regular income (I was a newly-hired casual then). Human resources said I had no chance at the position since there were 7 senior employees who also applied for the job. I remember crying that night and praying. The next morning I got a call from my employment. Human resources said all 7 senior applicants turned down the position, therefore it's mine.

Have you even considered the implications of that claim? You are saying that god intervened by manipulating the minds of 7 other applicants to make them ignore a job they would otherwise taken just you that you could get it. It would require that god override their free-will and requires that you be somehow special enough to be deserve a job by taking it away from someone else.
 
You're wrong. Prophets in the Bible had given proofs that they were God-inspired.

Can you please source this "proof"?

Bible verses don't count.

I hope I don't come across as harsh, that is not my intention. English is not my native language, so please forgive me when I make mistakes.

Oh just shut the hell up. Your English is flawless.
 
Just going by the posters on this thread, I would be more inclined to look into the Baha'i religion.

GG, you are truly showing the love of God through your words and actions.

Tosca, I would not want anything to do with any religion you preach based on your words and actions.
 
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