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The modern approach to church service - and it's commercialism

Aunt Spiker

Aunt Spiker

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This - this is my critical look at the modern church concept. If you think that what I'm about to say will offend you - then don't read:

On Easter Sunday I went to New Life Church with my sister and her husband. We have several kids between us - my four, her three.

Upon arrival - we had to check the children in. Meaning - there was a reception area with a desk, the receptionist used a computer to log our children into the system, print off a name tag, and give the parents a 'pick up ID tag' - when service is over and you collect your kids they verify your ID tag before they let your children go with you.

Then, the young children were separated and sent to their own service in another building (hence the need for the ID tags).

In the next room - I suppose we could call this the foyer - there was a coffee shop called 'The Blends' - you could buy breakfast/coffee/etc if you wanted to.

The next room was the chapel - in this particular church it was a converted warehouse (use to be a furniture depot). There was a stage set up with a series of projectors and the equipment for a live band to perform. There was an array of cushioned foldable seats for pews.

Service:
Consisted of watching a testimonial video, first, with people from the region who converted to the church.
Followed by several modern songs performed by the live band - with 'sing a long' words via projector.
Then there was a brief sermon during which the minister preached a small bit from the bible, made jokes about traditional church and other denominations.
The band performed while they did silent prayer.
A small 'send off' message and then it was over.

Everyone was encouraged to leave quickly so the next service could begin soon after.

So - my criticism comes as this:
The commercialism:
The coffee shop is for church profit. Other traditional churches, if they provide these things, tend to have a kitchen of sorts with free coffee that the members provide, maybe food of some sort in a small measure. It's a complimentary thing that goes into the communal sense of the church itself.

The band, itself, produces music albums - which you can buy either in the church or at iTunes.

The service conveyor belt - just before service began at 10:00 - there was another service at 9:00. Following the end of the 10:00 service was another at 11:00. . . Three church services back to back with five-minutes in between for the service members to 'clear out, move on' so there would be new for the next round.

Aside that - each service is mass-planned. In the region there are several churches of this type. A central 'office' produces the 'outline' for the service, the basic concept and focus of the sermon, and the entertainment components. The minister then adds his personal touch to the sermon so long as he stays within the guidelines set.

My critical view: There is little worship and connection in a church of this nature - it's designed to satisfy one's need to 'plug in once a week' rather than to 'get together and discuss, explore and expand religious knowledge' - In the desire for church-profit, to be entertained, the church has abandoned traditional concepts without the want to tend to the true religious needs of the followers.

What disturbed me most was the commercialism - A coffee shop, I"m sure the profit went all to the church - and music produced by the church itself? What was it that Jesus said about using his place of worship for profit?
Oh yes - he said this:

Mathew 21:12-13:
12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”
Click to expand...
 
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Anything "for profit" in a church, is clear violation of Jesus' principles. "you recieved free, give free," should be the mantra of the church.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
This - this is my critical look at the modern church concept. If you think that what I'm about to say will offend you - then don't read:

On Easter Sunday I went to New Life Church with my sister and her husband. We have several kids between us - my four, her three.

Upon arrival - we had to check the children in. Meaning - there was a reception area with a desk, the receptionist used a computer to log our children into the system, print off a name tag, and give the parents a 'pick up ID tag' - when service is over and you collect your kids they verify your ID tag before they let your children go with you.

Then, the young children were separated and sent to their own service in another building (hence the need for the ID tags).

In the next room - I suppose we could call this the foyer - there was a coffee shop called 'The Blends' - you could buy breakfast/coffee/etc if you wanted to.

The next room was the chapel - in this particular church it was a converted warehouse (use to be a furniture depot). There was a stage set up with a series of projectors and the equipment for a live band to perform. There was an array of cushioned foldable seats for pews.

Service:
Consisted of watching a testimonial video, first, with people from the region who converted to the church.
Followed by several modern songs performed by the live band - with 'sing a long' words via projector.
Then there was a brief sermon during which the minister preached a small bit from the bible, made jokes about traditional church and other denominations.
The band performed while they did silent prayer.
A small 'send off' message and then it was over.

Everyone was encouraged to leave quickly so the next service could begin soon after.

So - my criticism comes as this:
The commercialism:
The coffee shop is for church profit. Other traditional churches, if they provide these things, tend to have a kitchen of sorts with free coffee that the members provide, maybe food of some sort in a small measure. It's a complimentary thing that goes into the communal sense of the church itself.

The band, itself, produces music albums - which you can buy either in the church or at iTunes.

The service conveyor belt - just before service began at 10:00 - there was another service at 9:00. Following the end of the 10:00 service was another at 11:00. . . Three church services back to back with five-minutes in between for the service members to 'clear out, move on' so there would be new for the next round.

Aside that - each service is mass-planned. In the region there are several churches of this type. A central 'office' produces the 'outline' for the service, the basic concept and focus of the sermon, and the entertainment components. The minister then adds his personal touch to the sermon so long as he stays within the guidelines set.

My critical view: There is little worship and connection in a church of this nature - it's designed to satisfy one's need to 'plug in once a week' rather than to 'get together and discuss, explore and expand religious knowledge' - In the desire for church-profit, to be entertained, the church has abandoned traditional concepts without the want to tend to the true religious needs of the followers.

What disturbed me most was the commercialism - A coffee shop, I"m sure the profit went all to the church - and music produced by the church itself? What was it that Jesus said about using his place of worship for profit?
Oh yes - he said this:

Mathew 21:12-13:
Click to expand...
just wondering spiker, what about this service, if anything did you like?
 
1. I don't really have a problem with selling coffee any more than bake sales or what-have-you. It's just as communal, but it's getting only the members who want coffee to pay for coffee.

2. MegaChurches (in my limited experience with them) typically have bible-studies and small groups that fill the functions you seem to be expecting from the weekly service of "get[ing] together and discuss, explore and expand religious knowledge".

3. Yeah... if you gotta run 1200 people through a 450-person room between the hours of 8:30-12:00.... yeah. They sort of have to rush.

:) It sounds like either a small house-group inside of this kind of a church, or a smaller, more socially interconnected church is what you are looking for.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
This - this is my critical look at the modern church concept. If you think that what I'm about to say will offend you - then don't read:

On Easter Sunday I went to New Life Church with my sister and her husband. We have several kids between us - my four, her three.

Upon arrival - we had to check the children in. Meaning - there was a reception area with a desk, the receptionist used a computer to log our children into the system, print off a name tag, and give the parents a 'pick up ID tag' - when service is over and you collect your kids they verify your ID tag before they let your children go with you.

Then, the young children were separated and sent to their own service in another building (hence the need for the ID tags).

In the next room - I suppose we could call this the foyer - there was a coffee shop called 'The Blends' - you could buy breakfast/coffee/etc if you wanted to.

The next room was the chapel - in this particular church it was a converted warehouse (use to be a furniture depot). There was a stage set up with a series of projectors and the equipment for a live band to perform. There was an array of cushioned foldable seats for pews.

Service:
Consisted of watching a testimonial video, first, with people from the region who converted to the church.
Followed by several modern songs performed by the live band - with 'sing a long' words via projector.
Then there was a brief sermon during which the minister preached a small bit from the bible, made jokes about traditional church and other denominations.
The band performed while they did silent prayer.
A small 'send off' message and then it was over.

Everyone was encouraged to leave quickly so the next service could begin soon after.

So - my criticism comes as this:
The commercialism:
The coffee shop is for church profit. Other traditional churches, if they provide these things, tend to have a kitchen of sorts with free coffee that the members provide, maybe food of some sort in a small measure. It's a complimentary thing that goes into the communal sense of the church itself.

The band, itself, produces music albums - which you can buy either in the church or at iTunes.

The service conveyor belt - just before service began at 10:00 - there was another service at 9:00. Following the end of the 10:00 service was another at 11:00. . . Three church services back to back with five-minutes in between for the service members to 'clear out, move on' so there would be new for the next round.

Aside that - each service is mass-planned. In the region there are several churches of this type. A central 'office' produces the 'outline' for the service, the basic concept and focus of the sermon, and the entertainment components. The minister then adds his personal touch to the sermon so long as he stays within the guidelines set.

My critical view: There is little worship and connection in a church of this nature - it's designed to satisfy one's need to 'plug in once a week' rather than to 'get together and discuss, explore and expand religious knowledge' - In the desire for church-profit, to be entertained, the church has abandoned traditional concepts without the want to tend to the true religious needs of the followers.
Click to expand...

Well, it's not your cup of tea. Mine neither. I'm not sure if this church qualifies as a mega-church, but we have similar ones in the Chicago area. I have family on my dad's side that's active in such a church: Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, IL. It's nondenominational evangelical. Not to be snobbish, but they have a Starbuck's. :rofl

The church has three weekend services averaging a total attendance of 24,000. It sites on 90 acres of beautiful prime real estate. They create a lifestyle around their rather traditional beliefs. To be an active member in this church calls you to volunteer in any one of their myriad programs of 'service' -- one that's always stood out to me is a group that fixes up donated clunkers and then gives them to church members in need. They send missionary groups abroad; focus on young people; provide a real true sense of 24/7 church community to members.

My family's involvement has been a blessing in their lives. (Three separate families.) Their kids served abroad in their missionary programs; attend(ed) Texas Christian University; get excellent grades; they consistently volunteer in community- and church-based worthwhile causes; and, from the outside looking in, they are models of Christian values.

I find it pretty hard to criticize a church that produces results like that. To each their own . . .
 
justabubba said:
just wondering spiker, what about this service, if anything did you like?
Click to expand...

They sang Amazing Grace - a modern version - but generally speaking the music was nice, not gospel that I prefer (yes, I listen to it).

I'll extend a degree of flex, here- I attended on Easter Sunday which is the most attended service for any church so that probably altered their approach a little to accommodate.

I liked the check-in system for the kids. My children go with the rest of the family when I have to go out of town on the weekends - that actually made me feel more comfortable with them going.
 
Churches in my area have the opposite problem--keeping the pews filled. Churches are multiplying like rabbits in these woods--especially Baptists and Apostolics. My bigger concern is that these new store front churches are misguiding people--telling people what they want to hear, not you know, what the Bible says. If the sermon hits too close to home, people go off and start their own church with their own message rather than changing their lives.
 
Maybe a different church would work better.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Mathew 21:12-13:
Click to expand...

and a little bit before that, He said (Matthew 18:20) "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."

Seems to me this whole idea of big churches making everything into a production veers just a bit from Jesus notions about simplicity and humility.
 
So children are tagged and checked like coats?????? Sent to another building? Who's watching the kids? What are the kids being taught/told?

All very odd.

Did you have the option of keeping the kids with you?
 
WWJD? Can you picture Jesus attending such a service? without getting out the lash?
The whole thing seems to be more entertainment than "service".
 
Dragonfly said:
So children are tagged and checked like coats?????? Sent to another building? Who's watching the kids? What are the kids being taught/told?

All very odd.

Did you have the option of keeping the kids with you?
Click to expand...

Given the state of our world/nation and the very real threat of kidnapping, in a large church or any environment where the person handing off the kids in the sunday school should have a way to identify the children and the parent as being together. That is the right thing to do.
 
Kreton said:
Given the state of our world/nation and the very real threat of kidnapping, in a large church or any environment where the person handing off the kids in the sunday school should have a way to identify the children and the parent as being together. That is the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

Separating children from their parents and hushing them off to another building is a safety measure?????

Not in my world.
 
Dragonfly said:
So children are tagged and checked like coats?????? Sent to another building? Who's watching the kids? What are the kids being taught/told?

All very odd.

Did you have the option of keeping the kids with you?
Click to expand...

Good god have you ever been to a church? This happens ALLLLLLLL the time. Checking them in is a security precaution, same (but at a lower level) as hospitals do. If the parents haven't checked out the class and know who the teacher is, then shame on them.
 
UtahBill said:
WWJD? Can you picture Jesus attending such a service? without getting out the lash?
The whole thing seems to be more entertainment than "service".
Click to expand...

This is the biggest problem with many churches today. They are financially driven and focused. Most churches today are not designed to help people spiritually or help people get in touch God or better their communities. They are there to exploit the faith of good people for profit and sometimes worse.
 
Dragonfly said:
Separating children from their parents and hushing them off to another building is a safety measure?????

Not in my world.
Click to expand...

virtually every place in the US where kids and parents even might be separated has these measures in place. I have to sign my kids out at the gym, daycare, or a hospital. Even when we go to chuck e cheese we get marked so we can be checked when leaving. it is part of the America we have built, that has nothing to do with church.
 
Wow, Auntie, that was obviously quite the experience.....

It's definitely different than the church that I grew up in, and most of those that I have attended over the years since. I take it that you, like I prefer a service with a bit more liturgy to it than many of the more "modern" churches tend to provide. The chuch that my mother attends has taken to using the projector to lead responsive readings, hymns, etc.... It's not my preference, but then again I'm a lot more olde-fashioned than even many church people these days.

I'm definitely not in favor of separating the children from the main worship experience. I was sitting with my parents through entire services by the time I was 3 years old, as are all three of my 2+ year old nieces and nephews. I understand that there are a lot of people who don't want to hear a child in church, but even as someone who doesn't like kids, I'd rather hear the kids than someone's cell phone.

As for the "commercialization" of the atmosphere.... I think that comes with the larger, more business-like churches in general. It's definitely not the atmosphere that I would seek out in a church, but for some people who simply want to punch their "church ticket" every Sunday morning it probably works just fine.
 
Kreton said:
This is the biggest problem with many churches today. They are financially driven and focused. Most churches today are not designed to help people spiritually or help people get in touch God or better their communities. They are there to exploit the faith of good people for profit and sometimes worse.
Click to expand...

I am thinking that mutual admiration plays a part here....people want to belong, or be accepted, in a popular group, and that desire is used to build large churches.
IMO, church service implies WE serve God in some way (as was taught in the book of Matthew), but the service aspect has evolved into a form of entertainment for dues paying members, like country clubs.
 
Kreton said:
virtually every place in the US where kids and parents even might be separated has these measures in place. I have to sign my kids out at the gym, daycare, or a hospital. Even when we go to chuck e cheese we get marked so we can be checked when leaving. it is part of the America we have built, that has nothing to do with church.
Click to expand...

American said:
Good god have you ever been to a church? This happens ALLLLLLLL the time. Checking them in is a security precaution, same (but at a lower level) as hospitals do. If the parents haven't checked out the class and know who the teacher is, then shame on them.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point.

Why separate the kids at all?

When I went to church I went to church. Sat with the big folks. It was a family affair.

If I did go to Sunday school separate from the main service my parents walked me to the room and personally "handed me over" to the adult supervisors.
 
Dragonfly said:
You're missing the point.

Why separate the kids at all?

When I went to church I went to church. Sat with the big folks. It was a family affair.

If I did go to Sunday school separate from the main service my parents walked me to the room and personally "handed me over" to the adult supervisors.
Click to expand...

Kids need to be learning something different from the adults. Me and my 4 year old have different comprehensions, understands, and current knowledge. She is learning the basics of faith, where I have moved past that. Sunday school makes sense, at least to me. If you are at a small church where your parents know the Sunday School teacher and they know you are their kid is a pretty simple concept. But these mega churches can have hundreds of kids in them. Or there could be a custody issue and the dad you know may be coming to flee with his kid. And if something does happen the church will be sued because, lets face it, everyone is suing everyone for everything. The world today, and the world when you were a kid are not the same. The church has a liability and in today's world and in many churches people of the same church don't know each other. Hell, most people barely know thier neighbors.
 
RGacky3 said:
Anything "for profit" in a church, is clear violation of Jesus' principles. "you recieved free, give free," should be the mantra of the church.
Click to expand...

Profit is not a dirty word it the profits are going to the church. A coffee shop is a much better way to raise funds than a collection plate, or a bake sale.

Opposition to these new sorts of churches are just nostalgia and elitism, not anything rational. There is certainly nothing unchristian about raisin money for the church from sales of coffer in a church lobby.
 
Kreton said:
Kids need to be learning something different from the adults. Me and my 4 year old have different comprehensions, understands, and current knowledge. She is learning the basics of faith, where I have moved past that.
Click to expand...

I totally agree that the level of comprehension is different between Children and Adults, but I do believe there is a benefit to having the children in the service with the adults. The main benefit being that the kids get used to the liturgy and rhythm of the service. I'm not expecting a 2 year old to sit silently and pay attention for the whole service, but by the time I was 3-4 years old I was sitting through full services with my parents. I didn't necessarily understand everything that was going on, but it definitely helped me to learn the flow of the service.

In terms of sunday school, I'm most familiar with a set-up where "christian education" is done between the two services on Sunday morning. The church I grew up in had one service from 8am-9am, christian ed (youth and adult) from 9:15 to 10:15 and another service from 10:30am-11:30am.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
This - this is my critical look at the modern church concept. If you think that what I'm about to say will offend you - then don't read:

On Easter Sunday I went to New Life Church with my sister and her husband. We have several kids between us - my four, her three.

Upon arrival - we had to check the children in. Meaning - there was a reception area with a desk, the receptionist used a computer to log our children into the system, print off a name tag, and give the parents a 'pick up ID tag' - when service is over and you collect your kids they verify your ID tag before they let your children go with you.

Then, the young children were separated and sent to their own service in another building (hence the need for the ID tags).

In the next room - I suppose we could call this the foyer - there was a coffee shop called 'The Blends' - you could buy breakfast/coffee/etc if you wanted to.

The next room was the chapel - in this particular church it was a converted warehouse (use to be a furniture depot). There was a stage set up with a series of projectors and the equipment for a live band to perform. There was an array of cushioned foldable seats for pews.

Service:
Consisted of watching a testimonial video, first, with people from the region who converted to the church.
Followed by several modern songs performed by the live band - with 'sing a long' words via projector.
Then there was a brief sermon during which the minister preached a small bit from the bible, made jokes about traditional church and other denominations.
The band performed while they did silent prayer.
A small 'send off' message and then it was over.

Everyone was encouraged to leave quickly so the next service could begin soon after.

So - my criticism comes as this:
The commercialism:
The coffee shop is for church profit. Other traditional churches, if they provide these things, tend to have a kitchen of sorts with free coffee that the members provide, maybe food of some sort in a small measure. It's a complimentary thing that goes into the communal sense of the church itself.

The band, itself, produces music albums - which you can buy either in the church or at iTunes.

The service conveyor belt - just before service began at 10:00 - there was another service at 9:00. Following the end of the 10:00 service was another at 11:00. . . Three church services back to back with five-minutes in between for the service members to 'clear out, move on' so there would be new for the next round.

Aside that - each service is mass-planned. In the region there are several churches of this type. A central 'office' produces the 'outline' for the service, the basic concept and focus of the sermon, and the entertainment components. The minister then adds his personal touch to the sermon so long as he stays within the guidelines set.

My critical view: There is little worship and connection in a church of this nature - it's designed to satisfy one's need to 'plug in once a week' rather than to 'get together and discuss, explore and expand religious knowledge' - In the desire for church-profit, to be entertained, the church has abandoned traditional concepts without the want to tend to the true religious needs of the followers.

What disturbed me most was the commercialism - A coffee shop, I"m sure the profit went all to the church - and music produced by the church itself? What was it that Jesus said about using his place of worship for profit?
Oh yes - he said this:

Mathew 21:12-13:
Click to expand...

Last time I went to a civilian church was in 1998. I didn't experience the commercialism (not sure how common that is), but the sermons were hollow and passionless. The whole time everyone was just going through the motions, and there was nothing fulfilling or spiritual about any of it. Only been to one or two services where the guy was absolutely stoked about what he was doing. That's how church should be, imo, but it was so rare, I got turned off to it completely.

This level of commercialism isn't really surprising to me, though. It's just the way our society is, and churches have to accommodate that in order to keep, as well as draw in new parishioners.
 
I attended church for about 10 years, mainly Presbyterian, but also a couple of other denominations. Some of the best people I've ever met attended church, but they were few and far between. Most of the people I've met were complacent, petty, or just bland, and the two things most experienced Christians should have, moral courage and integrity, were almost non-existent. This goes for Christian organizations as well, like here in southeast Michigan for example, the YMCA's are a good example of what I believe are other poorly run organizations. I kind of expect anything with a Christian background to be below normal standards, as I've seen it so many times. Many of the strongest and best people I've ever met refuse to go to church because they see how the typical church going Christian is, not just imperfect, as we all are, but with seemingly no special characteristics whatsoever.

Churches do good things as well, and I've been involved in those things, they're just not nearly living up to their potential though, imo. Most churches I've attended are more like Christian themed clubs that seem to lack the integrity of a genuine church. I don't think I've ever attended a church that if Jesus materialized and walked in, that I would beam with joy....actually, I think I would be worried.
 
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JC Callender said:
I attended church for about 10 years, mainly Presbyterian, but also a couple of other denominations. Some of the best people I've ever met attended church, but they were few and far between. Most of the people I've met were complacent, petty, or just bland, and the two things most experienced Christians should have, moral courage and integrity, were almost non-existent. This goes for Christian organizations as well, like here in southeast Michigan for example, the YMCA's are a good example of what I believe are other poorly run organizations. I kind of expect anything with a Christian background to be below normal standards, as I've seen it so many times. Many of the strongest and best people I've ever met refuse to go to church because they see how the typical church going Christian is, not just imperfect, as we all are, but with seemingly no special characteristics whatsoever.

Churches do good things as well, and I've been involved in those things, they're just not nearly living up to their potential though, imo. Most churches I've attended are more like Christian themed clubs that seem to lack the integrity of a genuine church. I don't think I've ever attended a church that if Jesus materialized and walked in, that I would beam with joy....actually, I think I would be worried.
Click to expand...

Having been to a funeral service in church recently, I would say that losing all the polyester and plastic might do something for the "mood"...................
 
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