• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

America's Christian Heritage

ChezC3 said:
I don't think it that strange necessarily. Those who fled from persecution were different from their persecutors in the manner of belief, theirs bringing about their persecution. Once liberated it is only logical that they'd set up their own little hierarchy. Power; those who had it, those who wanted it, and the desire to enforce a set system of beliefs to the exclusion of all others. These were (and still are to a certain extent) the reasons for the flight to freedom, as evidenced by their actions.
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me. Leaving England was like a little fish in a big pond, but once in America and setting up their own little colony. That little fish in a big pond became a big fish in a little pond.
 
Perotista said:
What is really strange is that the colonist fled England and the Church of England over religious prosecution and then immediately set up their own state sponsored and sometimes run religions. There is no doubt that the United States was founded on the Christian religion, be it the Church of England, the Congregational Church or some other protestant religion. This continued until 1875 when North Carolina became the last state to remove religion from its state constitution.
Click to expand...

That's not true. Many of the colonists were sponsored by the English govt.

And there's a huge difference between people being Christians and saying that the nation was founded on Christianity.
 
Perotista said:
Makes sense to me. Leaving England was like a little fish in a big pond, but once in America and setting up their own little colony. That little fish in a big pond became a big fish in a little pond.
Click to expand...

Good evening, Pero. :2wave:

How did we, as a country, manage to do this when so many other countries cannot? Were our Framers that different from other men in their thinking? Could it be that we had a Constitution and Bill of Rights, which define who we are and what we stand for? Could it be that we have the system of law that we do? When you think about it, it is amazing that a relatively young Country accomplished what we did, and became a symbol of freedom that the Statue of Liberty shows to the world. Kinda makes me very proud to be an American! :thumbs:
 
sangha said:
That's not true. Many of the colonists were sponsored by the English govt.

And there's a huge difference between people being Christians and saying that the nation was founded on Christianity.
Click to expand...

For sure, all the charters were from the King of England. But that doesn't mean a lot of the first colonist were fleeing what they deem religious persecution. Colonial Virginia even had a low saying every person should go to church on Sundays and Holidays. Failure to do so, one could become a slave of the colony for the next week. The COE was Virginia's state sponsored church, as the COE was New York's. When the colonist first arrived, they went about setting up a church, various denominations for sure, but all thirteen at one time or another had a state sponsored church or religion.

I would say all thirteen colonies were christian and some actually sought to force others in a particular colony to either accept the religion of the colony or move to a different colony. Religion play a huge part in all thirteen colonies. Our laws were based on the ten commandments along with traits of English law. This nation was founded on the principals of Christianity.

Fear of another Church of England lead to the first amendment, but the founding fathers and the framers left the states to do as they wished as far as religion and having a state established church. Christianity played a huge part in the founding of this nation, to say otherwise is just a play on words. Buddhist, Confuciusism, Shinto, Greek gods, roman gods, any other religion play no part.
 
Perotista said:
For sure, all the charters were from the King of England. But that doesn't mean a lot of the first colonist were fleeing what they deem religious persecution. Colonial Virginia even had a low saying every person should go to church on Sundays and Holidays. Failure to do so, one could become a slave of the colony for the next week. The COE was Virginia's state sponsored church, as the COE was New York's. When the colonist first arrived, they went about setting up a church, various denominations for sure, but all thirteen at one time or another had a state sponsored church or religion.

I would say all thirteen colonies were christian and some actually sought to force others in a particular colony to either accept the religion of the colony or move to a different colony. Religion play a huge part in all thirteen colonies. Our laws were based on the ten commandments along with traits of English law. This nation was founded on the principals of Christianity.

Fear of another Church of England lead to the first amendment, but the founding fathers and the framers left the states to do as they wished as far as religion and having a state established church. Christianity played a huge part in the founding of this nation, to say otherwise is just a play on words. Buddhist, Confuciusism, Shinto, Greek gods, roman gods, any other religion play no part.
Click to expand...

Again, the fact that colonists were Christian does not mean that the nation was founded on Christianity. And our laws were not founded on the principles of Christianity.
 
polgara said:
Good evening, Pero. :2wave:

How did we, as a country, manage to do this when so many other countries cannot? Were our Framers that different from other men in their thinking? Could it be that we had a Constitution and Bill of Rights, which define who we are and what we stand for? Could it be that we have the system of law that we do? When you think about it, it is amazing that a relatively young Country accomplished what we did, and became a symbol of freedom that the Statue of Liberty shows to the world. Kinda makes me very proud to be an American! :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Luck and two oceans. Throw in some mighty good leaders when we needed them. It wouldn’t have taken much in 1812 for the British to have won and regained us. The Monroe doctrine was more bluster than fact, I mean coming from a realitive new nation that really didn’t have much of a navy or a standing army as compared to the world powers of that time.

I think the fact we were isolated by two oceans with no real power on the two continents of North and South America except ourselves, helped. This gave us time to grow and do so slowly and positively. It was during WWII we came into our own, yet it was the oceans that kept this country from being bombed like England. Even then this country was pretty much isolated and safe behind two oceans. Other countries of the world didn’t have it. We were the king in Americas, where as Europe had several countries filling that role.
 
sangha said:
Again, the fact that colonists were Christian does not mean that the nation was founded on Christianity. And our laws were not founded on the principles of Christianity.
Click to expand...

sure, just because they were creating the best country they knew how, doesn't mean that their faith, the source of their definition of "best," had any effect on the country they were creating, right? wrong.
 
AmericanWoman76 said:
sure, just because they were creating the best country they knew how, doesn't mean that their faith, the source of their definition of "best," had any effect on the country they were creating, right? wrong.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between saying their faith had an effect and saying the nation was founded on Christianity
 
Perotista said:
Luck and two oceans. Throw in some mighty good leaders when we needed them. It wouldn’t have taken much in 1812 for the British to have won and regained us. The Monroe doctrine was more bluster than fact, I mean coming from a realitive new nation that really didn’t have much of a navy or a standing army as compared to the world powers of that time.

I think the fact we were isolated by two oceans with no real power on the two continents of North and South America except ourselves, helped. This gave us time to grow and do so slowly and positively. It was during WWII we came into our own, yet it was the oceans that kept this country from being bombed like England. Even then this country was pretty much isolated and safe behind two oceans. Other countries of the world didn’t have it. We were the king in Americas, where as Europe had several countries filling that role.
Click to expand...

All very good points, Pero. I didn't take into consideration the benefits we enjoy having oceans on each side of us! And how fortunate that good leaders were there when we needed them! We could have seen a dictator, like so many countries today, yet we didn't go that route. Could the Fates have wanted to see how our experiment worked out? :thumbs:
 
sangha said:
Again, the fact that colonists were Christian does not mean that the nation was founded on Christianity. And our laws were not founded on the principles of Christianity.
Click to expand...

Okay, believe what you will, that Christianity played no part in the founding of this nation. Me, I think it played a big part. But that is a difference that neither of us will convince the other of.
 
polgara said:
All very good points, Pero. I didn't take into consideration the benefits we enjoy having oceans on each side of us! And how fortunate that good leaders were there when we needed them! We could have seen a dictator, like so many countries today, yet we didn't go that route. Could the Fates have wanted to see how our experiment worked out? :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Very possible. You don't mess with the Fates.
 
Perotista said:
Okay, believe what you will, that Christianity played no part in the founding of this nation. Me, I think it played a big part. But that is a difference that neither of us will convince the other of.
Click to expand...

And the same goes for you. Just keep believing I said things I never said.
 
sangha said:
And the same goes for you. Just keep believing I said things I never said.
Click to expand...

LOL. touche. Have a beautiful night. Mine will becoming to a close here shortly, at least on DP.
 
The Baron said:
Obviously you didn’t read the OPs. Of course we have a Christian heritage.
Click to expand...

The founding fathers were deists, unitarians, other christians and so on, the US has no more a Christian heritage than ANY OTHER COUNTRY with a majority christian population, infact less so.

Actually each colony had its own state religion. Sometimes this meant that the Church even benefitted from taxes, etc. That’s why the Constitution forbids the federal government from getting involved in religious matters. It was left for each state to decide.
Click to expand...

Each Colony did ... Before the revolution

And yet that is what the early colonist did.
Click to expand...

Before the revolution, but I would say the US CANNOT be a christian country, no nation can, "My kingdom is not of this world," is what Christ said, we must obey God as ruler rather than men. Christians should be non violent, not seeking power and authority, they should oppose materialism and oppression of the poor, this is the opposite of what the US has historically done, I would argue that the US is not christian AT ALL, and christians shouldn't try and make it a "christian country," because salvation comes from a personal relationship with christ, we shouldn't be like the ones who said "we have no king but Ceasar." But if you REALLY wanted to make a christian nation, step one dismantle the department of defense, step two, an economy based on mutual aid and community (holding all things in common) rather than private property and capitalism, step three, get rid of national boarders, that is the kingdom of God, if that's what you want I am all for it, I say lets go.
 
RGacky3 said:
But if you REALLY wanted to make a christian nation, step one dismantle the department of defense, step two, an economy based on mutual aid and community (holding all things in common) rather than private property and capitalism, step three, get rid of national boarders, that is the kingdom of God, if that's what you want I am all for it, I say lets go.
Click to expand...

You're defining Christianity in terms of your socialism.

That ain't Biblical.
 
America was, far as I can tell, founded by Christians (and Christian Deists) that had more on their mind than just biblical principles. It's a mix, one could say. There are Judeo-Christian and Humanistic values at the root of things. Christianity is definitely at the foundation of this nation, no buts about it.

The United States is a Christian nation, but not in the sense that Christian values are the only values that mean anything in matters of governance.


TheDemSocialist said:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
-Treaty of Tripoli signed by George Washington
Click to expand...

“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.”
― George Washington

Two can play the quote game.
 
Van Basten said:
America was, far as I can tell, founded by Christians (and Christian Deists) that had more on their mind than just biblical principles. It's a mix, one could say. There are Judeo-Christian and Humanistic values at the root of things. Christianity is definitely at the foundation of this nation, no buts about it.

The United States is a Christian nation, but not in the sense that Christian values are the only values that mean anything in matters of governance.




“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.”
― George Washington

Two can play the quote game.
Click to expand...

How many slaves did the christian Washington own?
 
sangha said:
There is a difference between saying their faith had an effect and saying the nation was founded on Christianity
Click to expand...

You're quite right. America wasn't founded on Christianity, America was founded because of Christianity, that is two different things.
 
There are many countries/kingdoms in history that justified their legitimacy with Christianity. But usually, those weren't republics.

That which was new about America were the ideas of Enlightenment it was founded on: Republican government, checks and balances, constitution. Civil rights, including freedom of religion.

It's obvious that thinkers like Voltaire or Locke had more influence on the founding of America and its Constitution than Christianity -- if the Founding Fathers had been interested in founding a "Christian" nation, they'd have chosen absolutist monarchy ruled by a king who gets his authority directly from God, as all the European nations who claimed to be "Christian" at that time.
 
The Baron said:
You're defining Christianity in terms of your socialism.

That ain't Biblical.
Click to expand...

I'm not, I define my socialism in the terms of biblical christianity.

All of these concepts are central the the biblical worldview.
 
If the United States was founded on the ideals of Christianity it would have been reflected in the founding documents of the country, I'd love to see someone show where in the Bible Jesus talked about the division of a legislative and executive branch of government. There's nothing in either the Constitution or Declaration of Independence that has anything to do with Christianity or the teachings of Jesus, its simply not there. You'd think a group of men intent on founding a nation based on Christianity would at least pull something out of the Bible occasionally when they set about designing their new government.
 
It's essential for the revised Liberal American history of tolerance, no judgments, inclusiveness and diversity to exclude Christianity, while at the same time including people and beliefs that were simply not present. You cannot argue with the loons about these revisions, it's essential to their present peace of mind and emotional survival. Even though everyone does know the truth. America as a Christian nation survived up until the Seventies.

Additionally, America didn't have much to do with the slave trade. Out of twelve million slaves brought to the New World, America received only 5% or approximately 600,000. The same number of Americans that died in the Civil War to free them. The primary slave traders were the Spanish, Portuguese and French and the slaves were sent primarily to the Caribbean. The Liberals have to revise these historical facts also so that the evil America can be blamed as the hub of slavery, which it was not. Slavery in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom