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America's Christian Heritage

AlabamaPaul said:
Perhaps you should have said slavery was pervasive around the country. Good evening pero...
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Howdy AP, slavery was still legal in around 75% of the world come 1860. As for the states only New Hampshire 1783, Connecticut 1784, Rhode Island 1784, New Jersey 1804, New York 1817, Pennsylvania 1847. All the rest of the states slavery was legal. But in even those states that abolished slavery the time time was sometimes 20-30 years in the future before all slaves would be set free or they just freed the children of slaves.

But even so, owning slaves even if 75% of the world did so at the time of the civil war, doesn't make it right. It is also interesting to note slavery was alive and well until 1981 when Mauritania became the last country to abolish the practice. While now illegal everywhere, slavery or practices akin to it continues today in many countries of the world.
 
captainawesome said:
They never did thanks to the teachings if Jesus. The command of treat others as you want to be treated was clear 2000 years ago.
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Are you claiming Southern slave owners were not christians?
 
Perotista said:
Howdy AP, slavery was still legal in around 75% of the world come 1860. As for the states only New Hampshire 1783, Connecticut 1784, Rhode Island 1784, New Jersey 1804, New York 1817, Pennsylvania 1847. All the rest of the states slavery was legal. But in even those states that abolished slavery the time time was sometimes 20-30 years in the future before all slaves would be set free or they just freed the children of slaves.

But even so, owning slaves even if 75% of the world did so at the time of the civil war, doesn't make it right. It is also interesting to note slavery was alive and well until 1981 when Mauritania became the last country to abolish the practice. While now illegal everywhere, slavery or practices akin to it continues today in many countries of the world.
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It's called serfdom or indentered servitude.
 
Perotista said:
Howdy AP, slavery was still legal in around 75% of the world come 1860. As for the states only New Hampshire 1783, Connecticut 1784, Rhode Island 1784, New Jersey 1804, New York 1817, Pennsylvania 1847. All the rest of the states slavery was legal. But in even those states that abolished slavery the time time was sometimes 20-30 years in the future before all slaves would be set free or they just freed the children of slaves.

But even so, owning slaves even if 75% of the world did so at the time of the civil war, doesn't make it right. It is also interesting to note slavery was alive and well until 1981 when Mauritania became the last country to abolish the practice. While now illegal everywhere, slavery or practices akin to it continues today in many countries of the world.
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I was just making sure you were not singling out any particular region of the country...
 
spanky said:
Including most of our Founding Fathers. Some, like Jefferson, liked a little jungle booty strange as well.
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True, no one said they were perfect, just visionaries.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Perhaps you should have said slavery was pervasive around the country. Good evening pero...
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Good evening, AP.

It's a bit belated, but I hope you had a very nice Easter! I didn't see you earlier to wish same.

Now... looking forward to tomorrow, which is April Fools Day, ........ :eek: :scared:

What was the best trick played on you?
 
polgara said:
Good evening, AP.

It's a bit belated, but I hope you had a very nice Easter! I didn't see you earlier to wish same.

Now... looking forward to tomorrow, which is April Fools Day, ........ :eek: :scared:

What was the best trick played on you?
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I had wonderful day, thank you. I hope you did as well. Good evening pg...
 
spanky said:
You're just talking out of your ass and I'm getting tired of it. I'm not even going to spend the time to rebut you, however, here is a good wiki link to the reality of slavery in Britian all the way up until the 20th century.

Slavery in the British Isles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sure as a christian you'll love these tidbits...

"The Church of England was implicated in slavery. Slaves were owned by the Anglican Church's Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts (SPGFP), which had sugar plantations in the West Indies. When slaves were emancipated by Act of the British Parliament in 1834, the British government paid compensation to slave owners. Among those they paid were the Bishop of Exeter and three business colleagues, who received compensation for 665 slaves.[29]

A member of the House of Commons and a supporter of the Tory government, William Wilberforce became intrinsically involved in the abolition of slave trade in the Britain. His conversion to Evangelical Christianity in 1784 played a key role in interesting him in this social reform.[30] William Wilberforce’s Slave Trade Act 1807 abolished the slave trade in the British Empire. It was not until the Slavery Abolition Act 1833 that the institution finally was abolished."
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Abolition of slavery timeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If u insist on being wikipedia warriors.

1102: Trade in slaves and serfdom ruled illegal in London: Council of London (1102)
1117: Slavery abolished in Iceland
1214: The Statute of the Town of Korčula (Croatia) abolishes slavery.[4]
1215: Magna Carta signed. Clause 30, commonly known as Habeas Corpus, would form the basis of a law against slavery in English common law
1256: The Liber Paradisus is promulgated. The Comune di Bologna abolishes slavery and serfdom and releases all the serfs in its territories
1274: Landslova (Land's Law) in Norway mentions only former slaves, which indicates that slavery was abolished in Norway
1315: Louis X, king of France, publishes a decree proclaiming that "France" signifies freedom and that any slave setting foot on the French ground should be freed[5]
1335: Sweden (including Finland at the time) makes slavery illegal. Though this is not enacted. A true abolishion of slavery does not occur until 1813.[6]
1416: Republic of Ragusa (modern day Dubrovnik, Croatia) abolished slavery and slave trading
1435: Papal Encyclical - Sicut Dudum - of Pope Eugene IV banning enslavement on pain of excommunication.

Pfff...

1537: Pope Paul III forbids slavery of the indigenous peoples of the Americas as well as of any other new population that would be discovered, indicating their right to freedom and property. However, only Catholic countries apply it, and state that they cannot possibly enforce what happens in the distant colonies (Sublimus Dei).
1542: Spain enacted the first European law abolishing colonial slavery in 1542, but was forced to weaken these laws by 1545.
1683: The Spanish crown abolishes slavery of indigenous prisoners of war in Chile. Non prisoner of war indigenous slavery was already illegal.[12]

1701: The Lord Chief Justice rules that a slave became free as soon as he arrived in England.
1723: Russia abolishes outright slavery but retains serfdom
1772: Somersett's case held that no slave could be forcibly removed from Britain. This case was generally taken at the time to have decided that the condition of slavery did not exist under English law in England and Wales, and emancipated the remaining ten to fourteen thousand slaves or possible slaves in England and Wales, who were mostly domestic servants.

And so on and so forth.

Don't history lesson me spanky. I read more history than you can possibly imagine.

While the final nail in the coffin for slavery did come in France after the revolution; in the UK in 1833 and in Spain at the beginning of the same century, the reality of the situation is that slavery was only a thing in the colonies. I stated that on MAINLAND UK and FRANCE and SPAIN, slavery had been abolished before that. And that is true.

In the case of England, after the complete and total abolishion of slavery that was enforced in all colonies at the displeasure of many natives, especially in India where they even did a big revolt in 1858 and one of the causes for the revolt was because they banned slavery and freed all the slaves, and the indians didn't like that.
 
UK colonized those countries to set them free and never commited colonial crime




and industrial revolution has no influence on abolishment of slavery ,those northerners were wasp too , so they were as civilized as UK ,

they were just fond of human rights!!!!!!!!

it must be so easy to rewrite the history

black ,yellow or pink poor men invented slavery ,but white man was MORE CİVİLİZED and wanted to abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

a little honesty.........

you cant teach spanky anything ,he is at the age of your father

and all your education seems to have been waste of time..
 
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While there has been some historical references of Irish enslaved in colonial America the main geographical area of Irish enslavement was the Caribbean. Montserrat is one of only a handful of countries that celebrate St. Patrick's day as a national holiday. This is due to the large percentage of Irish descendants in the population. In fact, most Montserratans spoke Irish Gaelic until early 1900s. During the Cromwellian campaign in Ireland many Irish rebels and stubborn landowners and tenants were rounded up and sent to the Caribbean to work alongside African slaves on English owned plantations. Jamaica also received a sizeable proportion of Irish slaves. The Jamaican and Caribbean accents are believed to have originated from the Irish accent[citation needed]. It is far from uncommon to see street names with Irish surnames.

Triangular trade
The three way trade in the North Atlantic
Main article: Triangular trade

By the 18th century, the slave trade became a major economic mainstay for such cities as Bristol and Liverpool, engaged in the so-called "Triangular trade". The ships set out from England, loaded with trade goods which were exchanged on the West African shores for slaves captured by local rulers from deeper inland; the slaves were transported through the infamous "middle passage" across the Atlantic, and were sold at considerable profit for labour in plantations. The ships were loaded with export crops and commodities, the products of slave labour, such as sugar and rum, and returned to England to sell the items.

John Locke, the philosophical champion of the Glorious Revolution argued against slavery (Ch.IV) and asserted that "every man has property in his own person" (§27, Ch.V). By the 18th century African slaves began to be brought into London and Edinburgh as personal servants.[citation needed] In a number of judicial decisions between slave merchants, it was tacitly accepted that slavery of Africans was legal.[citation needed] In Butts v. Peny (1677) 2 Lev 201, 3 Keb 785, an action was brought to recover possession of 100 slaves. The court held that slavery was legal in England in relation to infidels and that an action for trover would lie.[24]

But in 1729 the then-Attorney General and Solicitor General of England signed the Yorke–Talbot slavery opinion expressing their view (and, by implication, that of the Government) that slavery of Africans was lawful in England. At this time slaves were openly bought and sold on commodities markets at London and Liverpool. Slavery was also accepted in England's many colonies.

Transportation

Transportation to the colonies as a slave or an indentured servant served as punishment for both major and petty crimes in England and Ireland from the 17th century until well into the 19th century. A sentence could be for life or a specific period. The penal system required the convicts to work, on government projects such as road construction, building works and mining, or be assigned to free individuals as unpaid labour. Women were expected to work as domestic servants and farm labourers. Similar to slaves, indentured servants could be bought and sold, could not marry without the permission of their owner, were subject to physical punishment, and saw their obligation to labour enforced by the courts.

A convict who had served part of his time might apply for a "ticket of leave" permitting some prescribed freedoms. This enabled some convicts to resume a more normal life, to marry and raise a family, and a few to develop the colonies while removing them from the society. Exile was an essential component and thought to be a major deterrent to crime. Transportation was also seen as a humane and productive alternative to execution, which would most likely have been the sentence for many if transportation had not been introduced.

The transportation of British subjects overseas can be traced back to the English Vagabonds act of 1597. During the reign of Henry VIII, it has been estimated that approximately 72,000 people were put to death for a variety of crimes.[12] An alternate practice, borrowed from the Spanish, was to commute the death sentence and allow the use of convicts as a labour force for the colonies. One of the first references to a person being transported comes in 1607 when ‘'an apprentice dyer was sent to Virginia' from Bridewell for running away with his master's goods.’’.[13] The act was little used despite attempts by James I who, with limited success, tried to encourage its adoption by passing a series of Privy Council Orders in 1615, 1619 and 1620.[14]

Transportation was seldom used as a criminal sentence until the Piracy Act 1717, (An Act for the further preventing Robbery, Burglary, and other Felonies, and for the more effectual Transportation of Felons, and unlawful Exporters of Wool; and for declaring the Law upon some Points relating to Pirates.) established a seven-year penal transportation as a possible punishment for those convicted of lesser felonies, or as a possible sentence that capital punishment might be commuted to by royal pardon. Transportation of criminals to North America was undertaken from 1718-1776. When the American revolution made it unfeasible to carry out transportation to the thirteen colonies, those sentenced to it were typically punished with imprisonment or hard labour instead. From 1787-1868, criminals convicted and sentenced under the act were transported to the colonies in Australia.
 
The United States doesn't have a christian heritage nor should it, it was specifically NOT religious, they disninguished themselves from the european powers by not having a state church and making sure there was no state Church.

The United States is not christian, in name or deed. No Christian should want the state to adopt a faith as a state religion, because that isn't the state's role.

Any country that sends drones to murder civilians in other countries is clearly not christian in any meaninful way.
 
RGacky3 said:
The United States doesn't have a christian heritage nor should it…
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Obviously you didn’t read the OPs. Of course we have a Christian heritage.

RGacky3 said:
…it was specifically NOT religious, they disninguished themselves from the european powers by not having a state church and making sure there was no state Church.
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Wow!

Actually each colony had its own state religion. Sometimes this meant that the Church even benefitted from taxes, etc. That’s why the Constitution forbids the federal government from getting involved in religious matters. It was left for each state to decide.

RGacky3 said:
The United States is not christian, in name or deed. No Christian should want the state to adopt a faith as a state religion, because that isn't the state's role.
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And yet that is what the early colonist did.
 
The Baron said:
Obviously you didn’t read the OPs. Of course we have a Christian heritage.



Wow!

Actually each colony had its own state religion. Sometimes this meant that the Church even benefitted from taxes, etc. That’s why the Constitution forbids the federal government from getting involved in religious matters. It was left for each state to decide.



And yet that is what the early colonist did.
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Finally someone who knows a bit of the real history. Here is the list of states listing the time between original colonial charter and the end of state supported religion.

Virginia 224 years 1606-1830
New York 225 years 1614 -1846
Massachusetts 204 years 1629-1833
Maryland 235 years 1632-1867
Delaware 155 years 1637-1792
Connecticut 179 years 1639-1818
New Hampshire 238 years 1639-1877
Rhode Island 199 years 1643 -1842
Georgia 135 years 1663-1798
North Carolina 212 years 1663-1875
South Carolina 205 years 1663-1868
Pennsylvania 109 years 1681-1790
New Jersey 142 years 1702-1844

All of the colonies/states did have state sponsored and even most of them state supported churches/religion. The 1st Amendment only applied to the federal government and not the states. This was true until 1868 and the passage of the 14th Amendment.
 
Perotista said:
Finally someone who knows a bit of the real history. Here is the list of states listing the time between original colonial charter and the end of state supported religion.

Virginia 224 years 1606-1830
New York 225 years 1614 -1846
Massachusetts 204 years 1629-1833
Maryland 235 years 1632-1867
Delaware 155 years 1637-1792
Connecticut 179 years 1639-1818
New Hampshire 238 years 1639-1877
Rhode Island 199 years 1643 -1842
Georgia 135 years 1663-1798
North Carolina 212 years 1663-1875
South Carolina 205 years 1663-1868
Pennsylvania 109 years 1681-1790
New Jersey 142 years 1702-1844

All of the colonies/states did have state sponsored and even most of them state supported churches/religion. The 1st Amendment only applied to the federal government and not the states. This was true until 1868 and the passage of the 14th Amendment.
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this is very interesting. Do you know or have link showing the particular denominations of each state? I'm pretty sure Mary-land was Catholic, but what about the others?
 
Josie said:
It's pathetic how many people actually believe that the majority of our Founders weren't religious. Where is this crap education coming from?
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If being in the majority means the nation can be characterized by that, then the US is a "Female Nation"
 
ChezC3 said:
thanks, I'llgo indepth later but I did see I was wrong. Maryland's official religion was Anglican/CoE.
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I also seen where Georgia listed none as its official religion, but the requirement to be protestant.

Article I. Section 3. The 'representatives... shall be of the Protestant religion...' requirement was removed.
"Article IV. Section 5. All persons shall have the free exercise of religion, without being obligated to contribute to the support of any religious but their own."

Georgia Constitution 1789
 
Perotista said:
I also seen where Georgia listed none as its official religion, but the requirement to be protestant.

Article I. Section 3. The 'representatives... shall be of the Protestant religion...' requirement was removed.
"Article IV. Section 5. All persons shall have the free exercise of religion, without being obligated to contribute to the support of any religious but their own."

Georgia Constitution 1789
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Can't make a WASP without the P... :lol:

What I see as troubling is the attempt to rewrite history. That the US doesn't have a Christian heritage? C'mon, that's not even a statement worth arguing.
 
ChezC3 said:
Can't make a WASP without the P... :lol:

What I see as troubling is the attempt to rewrite history. That the US doesn't have a Christian heritage? C'mon, that's not even a statement worth arguing.
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What is really strange is that the colonist fled England and the Church of England over religious prosecution and then immediately set up their own state sponsored and sometimes run religions. There is no doubt that the United States was founded on the Christian religion, be it the Church of England, the Congregational Church or some other protestant religion. This continued until 1875 when North Carolina became the last state to remove religion from its state constitution.
 
Perotista said:
Finally someone who knows a bit of the real history. Here is the list of states listing the time between original colonial charter and the end of state supported religion.

Virginia 224 years 1606-1830
New York 225 years 1614 -1846
Massachusetts 204 years 1629-1833
Maryland 235 years 1632-1867
Delaware 155 years 1637-1792
Connecticut 179 years 1639-1818
New Hampshire 238 years 1639-1877
Rhode Island 199 years 1643 -1842
Georgia 135 years 1663-1798
North Carolina 212 years 1663-1875
South Carolina 205 years 1663-1868
Pennsylvania 109 years 1681-1790
New Jersey 142 years 1702-1844

All of the colonies/states did have state sponsored and even most of them state supported churches/religion. The 1st Amendment only applied to the federal government and not the states. This was true until 1868 and the passage of the 14th Amendment.
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If New Jersey did it, we should be doing the exact opposite. This is the most horrible State ever.
 
Ikari said:
If New Jersey did it, we should be doing the exact opposite. This is the most horrible State ever.
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LOL, okay, in what way dare I ask? I have never been to New Jersey. In fact outside of a couple of TDY trips to Ft. Drum, NY, I haven't made it to the northeast.
 
Perotista said:
What is really strange is that the colonist fled England and the Church of England over religious prosecution and then immediately set up their own state sponsored and sometimes run religions. There is no doubt that the United States was founded on the Christian religion, be it the Church of England, the Congregational Church or some other protestant religion. This continued until 1875 when North Carolina became the last state to remove religion from its state constitution.
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I don't think it that strange necessarily. Those who fled from persecution were different from their persecutors in the manner of belief, theirs bringing about their persecution. Once liberated it is only logical that they'd set up their own little hierarchy. Power; those who had it, those who wanted it, and the desire to enforce a set system of beliefs to the exclusion of all others. These were (and still are to a certain extent) the reasons for the flight to freedom, as evidenced by their actions.
 
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