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Women Priests and Pastors [W:228]

RGacky3 said:
Post #276.

It does have to do with how you organize society, whether it's property first or people first.

That wasn't my question.

But there are plenty of things in Gods law that put social well being OVER property.

That is patently untrue, capital begets capital, that's cold hard economics, you can be as industrious as you'd like, you're not getting anywhere without control of capital, or access to capital.

His kingdom was no part of this world, but the christian principles still apply on on how we relate to the world.

AND IT WAS NOT THE LAW THEY WERE VIOLATING ... jesus did fullfill the old law, but that has nothing to do with sodom and ghommorah .... since they wern't under law ... pay attention.

But do you try and influence how society runs? That is the point.

I don't live in the US, and I've been all over the world. The US is the richest country in the world yet has higher poverty rates than much poorer countries, and some of the poor dont' have access to healthcare, higher education, and so on, this is EXACTLY the thing that the prophetic tradition preaches against, when wealthy societies ignore the poor.

Nor does it change the REASON that God destroyed the city.

We have to work to make the societies we live in more egaletarian societies.

NO ONE in the bible was condemned for trying to undo inequality and oppression, tons and tons were condemned for supporting and being part of exploitative systesm where the rich reap all the profits and the poor suffer.

No one is saying "stealing" property, I'm saying change the way economics is done.

Also "property" is a state institution, it doesn't exist without the state.
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Ok I am getting tired of repeating myself because you don't like the answers. Your whole argument falls apart on one simple premise. We are to submit to our earthly government. No place in the Bible does it tell us to be communists or any such nonsense.

And post #276 I think you said? Is the exact opposite of what you implied. I guess you just ignored the whole part about being "clueless."

End of debate.
 
Black Manta said:
Ok I am getting tired of repeating myself because you don't like the answers. Your whole argument falls apart on one simple premise. We are to submit to our earthly government. No place in the Bible does it tell us to be communists or any such nonsense.

And post #276 I think you said? Is the exact opposite of what you implied. I guess you just ignored the whole part about being "clueless."

End of debate.
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Submitting to earthly government doesn't mean supporting a capitalist framework over a communal one.

You're assuming submission is doctrinal and not practical.

All over the bible, it tells people that their main concern, when it comes to how society works, is making sure the poor and disadvantaged are not deprived (not defending private property), the first century church WAS communist (in the literal sense of the word).

In Post #260 you said

That is not any kind of "institutionalised sin." The Nazi's are a bad example as not everyone who was a Nazi did anything wrong.
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When I challanged that, you said

Guilt by association when you are clueless is not and never has been a sin.
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Where you added in clueless .... Something that is totally ad Hoc.

But according to Revelation 18:4, there IS such thing as social sin, if you are part of an organization, or a system that is sinful you share in that sin.
 
RGacky3 said:
Submitting to earthly government doesn't mean supporting a capitalist framework over a communal one.
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When it is our government yes it is.

RGacky3 said:
You're assuming submission is doctrinal and not practical.
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No. I am assuming that is what we are supposed to do. It literally states it. You can twist it and deny it all you want.

RGacky3 said:
All over the bible, it tells people that their main concern, when it comes to how society works, is making sure the poor and disadvantaged are not deprived (not defending private property), the first century church WAS communist (in the literal sense of the word).
Click to expand...

Did you even bother to read the historical evidence I posted? They separated themselves from "society" and lived in little communes inside society while not being part of it. This later changed because IT DID NOT WORK.

RGacky3 said:
In Post #260 you said

When I challanged that, you said

Where you added in clueless .... Something that is totally ad Hoc.
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What a load. I said...

That is not any kind of "institutionalised sin." The Nazi's are a bad example as not everyone who was a Nazi did anything wrong.

You then said...

eing involved with an organization like that and a system like that IS a sin. - RGacky3

I replied...

Guilt by association when you are clueless is not and never has been a sin.

And you knew it was not "ad hoc" etc as you responded...

Yes, but if you KNOW, and still associate, you are guilty (Revelation 18:4). - RGacky3

So I can assume you are lying for some dishonest reason?

RGacky3 said:
But according to Revelation 18:4, there IS such thing as social sin, if you are part of an organization, or a system that is sinful you share in that sin.
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And the people were being called out, why?
 
Black Manta said:
When it is our government yes it is.
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1. Didn't call for violent revolution.
2. Were the founding fathers were sinning in revolting against the british?
3. Our government allows the citizenry to take part in public affairs, THAT right should be used in conjuction with christian principles.

There is no argument here you're presenting against my case.

No. I am assuming that is what we are supposed to do. It literally states it. You can twist it and deny it all you want.
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It literally states that, but alls scriptural interpretation needs to be made in context.

Did you even bother to read the historical evidence I posted? They separated themselves from "society" and lived in little communes inside society while not being part of it. This later changed because IT DID NOT WORK.
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What historical evidence? Where did you present it, they functioned as a commune all throughout the old testament, and it changed when Christianity became an imperial religion.

What evidence did you present?

What a load. I said...

That is not any kind of "institutionalised sin." The Nazi's are a bad example as not everyone who was a Nazi did anything wrong.

You then said...

eing involved with an organization like that and a system like that IS a sin. - RGacky3

I replied...

Guilt by association when you are clueless is not and never has been a sin.

And you knew it was not "ad hoc" etc as you responded...

Yes, but if you KNOW, and still associate, you are guilty (Revelation 18:4). - RGacky3

So I can assume you are lying for some dishonest reason?
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Ok so there IS such thing as a social sin? I.e. being part of something that is sinful?

And the people were being called out, why?
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That they don't partake in their sins .... As one would if one supports sinful economic systems.
 
RGacky3 said:
1. Didn't call for violent revolution.
2. Were the founding fathers were sinning in revolting against the british?
3. Our government allows the citizenry to take part in public affairs, THAT right should be used in conjuction with christian principles.
Click to expand...

Yes it should, has nothing to do with communism.

RGacky3 said:
There is no argument here you're presenting against my case.
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Because you have no case.

RGacky3 said:
It literally states that, but alls scriptural interpretation needs to be made in context.
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Yes and in context it says what I have shown it to say.

RGacky3 said:
What historical evidence? Where did you present it, they functioned as a commune all throughout the old testament, and it changed when Christianity became an imperial religion.

What evidence did you present?
Click to expand...

If you missed it after quoting it, what can I say?

RGacky3 said:
Ok so there IS such thing as a social sin? I.e. being part of something that is sinful?
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Yes. I said Nazi's were a bad example, that's it. You went of the deep end after that.

RGacky3 said:
That they don't partake in their sins .... As one would if one supports sinful economic systems.
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Our economic system is not sinful. The poor in the us live better than what would be considered middle class in the rest of the world. They have free medical care, food, education etc. Hell how many of the poor in Africa have color TV's and air conditioning?

Like I said you have never been out of the US and have not a ****ing clue as to what real poverty is. As soon as you see a poor person in the US eating dirt, literal dirt because there is nothing else. You let me know.
 
rathi said:
I don't think your tactic of posting increasing obtuse gibberish is an effective as you might hope.
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'Increasingly'. And 'as' effective.

Apologies for my lack of latitude on your behalf. I find that my compassion for it waxes ever more seldom. But that's my problem, not yours.
 
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