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Muslim activists aim to reclaim the word 'jihad' with ad campaign

Dr. Chuckles said:
Isn't that exactly what you are doing?
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l am muslim too....

will you ignore those verses about sects and believe in that ignorant two faced imam ?

islamists are like you! they ignore those verses which comdemn sects.

l am asking again

l posted those very specific verses about sects which follow so called hadiths

w,ill you ignore these verses ?




But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the Unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a momentous Day! maryam 37

Of those who divided their religion and became seas every sect rejoicing in what they had with them.
ar rum 32

159. Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects) , you (O Muhammad ) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do. al anam 159


if you still keep insisting on your islamist points of view ,l will begin to think taht you are doing it intentioanlly
 
Medusa said:
that imam probably will lie to you

if we consider your news sources...........

imams are not very reliable people ,believe in me

not all of them are real believers or experts............

many of those are two faced bigots ignoring the verses l posted in my other post and they try to abuse ignorant people'S beliefs

l suggest you change your source of information

you dont live in a muslim society ,please dont be funny .l know lots of christians too
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Whoa, whoa, whoa, lets back this thing up here. I am not in any way, shape, or form attacking, insulting, or trying to twist Islam. I've nothing but respect. First and foremost. I've never met a "Quran only" muslim, or as you prefer just Muslim.

What news sources of mine are you considering?
If I may point out something for you

The Private Apartments 49:11
O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

That being said, are you telling me Ibn Arabi, Said Nursi, Al Ghazali are kafir?



I'm not being disrespectful, I'd love to have a dialogue, but calling someone wrong and then point to the Quran only to turn about and do something also which is said shouldn't be done isn't making a strong case for you.
 
ChezC3 said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, lets back this thing up here. I am not in any way, shape, or form attacking, insulting, or trying to twist Islam. I've nothing but respect. First and foremost. I've never met a "Quran only" muslim, or as you prefer just Muslim.

What news sources of mine are you considering?
If I may point out something for you

The Private Apartments 49:11
O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

That being said, are you telling me Ibn Arabi, Said Nursi, Al Ghazali are kafir?



I'm not being disrespectful, I'd love to have a dialogue, but calling someone wrong and then point to the Quran only to turn about and do something also which is said shouldn't be done isn't making a strong case for you.
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l said what l have to say..............

ignore or not...................

the muslims who know kuran dont believe in gazali or any other one..........................

like bible ,only kuran is valid!

you read those verses ,but still ignore............

okay,do it and let me see you do it intentionallyy

nobody can teach me my own belief
it is very crazy




But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the Unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a momentous Day! maryam 37

Of those who divided their religion and became seas every sect rejoicing in what they had with them.
ar rum 32

159. Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects) , you (O Muhammad ) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do. al anam 159


according to these verses ,yes l cant know gazali is kafir or not because l am not god ,but l cant believe in gazali as if he is a prophet!!!
 
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Medusa to ChecC3 said:
in fact Muslims are Not interested in these so called hadiths
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mbig said:
Not considered or factual. Just free association/simple declaration and the attempted Ruination of debate. Again.

Hadith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Usage

The Overwhelming Majority of Muslims consider Hadith to be Essential supplements to and clarifications of the Quran, Islam's holy book, as well as in clarifying issues pertaining to Islamic jurisprudence. Ibn al-Salah, a hadith specialist, described the relationship between hadith and other aspect of the religion by saying: "It is the science most pervasive in respect to the other sciences in their various branches, in particular to jurisprudence being the most important of them."[13] "The intended meaning of 'other sciences' here are those pertaining to religion," explains Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, "Quranic exegesis, hadith, and jurisprudence. The science of hadith became the most pervasive due to the need displayed by each of these three sciences. The need hadith has of its science is apparent. As for Quranic exegesis, then the preferred manner of explaining the speech of God is by means of what has been accepted as a statement of Muhammad. The one looking to this is in need of distinguishing the acceptable from the unacceptable. Regarding jurisprudence, then the jurist is in need of citing as an evidence the acceptable to the exception of the later, something only possible utilizing the science of hadith."[4]
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Medusa said:
are you teaching me my own religion ??
l usually see this arrogance .........
sunni islamists and some other bigots who are the followers of some sects can take them into consideration
but normal muslims are too smart to believe in them.
their guide is not wiki or hadiths ,only kuran
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Obviously I am teaching you, are at least correcting you.
But mainly in this case, pointing out/citing what most of your other co-religionists opinions are.
What IS "arrogant" is you claiming to speak for Islam, or necessarily claiming you are right because you are a Muslim.
At most you speak for liberal Turkish Islam, which itself is atypical.

You also assuredly claimed just yesterday that Astrology is "fact".
Previously, that your Thrice elected Islamist Govt is a USA Puppet! .. a Saudi Puppet.
That you believe in NWO, and daily espouse some version of it.
(citations available)
As others have noted in this string and others, your posts are preposterous.
 
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Medusa said:
l said what l have to say..............

ignore or not...................
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the muslims who know kuran dont believe in gazali or any other one..........................
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I've never known anyone to "believe in" al ghazali

like bible ,only kuran is valid!
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But the Bible isn't like the Quran. The Bible more closely resembles Hadith. sola scriptura leads to confusion, as I believe you show below.



you read those verses ,but still ignore............
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I read those versus and ignore not, I read in the context they are presented.


But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the Unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a momentous Day! maryam 37
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This is taken out of context, being this part of the sura involves Jesus and those who'd make partners with Allah.



Of those who divided their religion and became seas every sect rejoicing in what they had with them.
ar rum 32
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Reading the sura before and after, the context changes.

159. Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects) , you (O Muhammad ) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do. al anam 159
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Of course if you start at 157 and pass after to 163 the context of that sura would change considerably as well...




according to these verses ,yes l cant know gazali is kafir or not because l am not god ,but l cant believe in gazali as if he is a prophet!!!
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No you're not, and no one has asked you to.

Now, outside of the Quran, I have studied Al Muwatta, and Al Bukari -- these considered the core hadith. The rest being built upon these two. As these two are almost univerally considered sahih, i.e. authetic.

Through study scholars have came up with a multitude of opinions on these hadith and others as well, along with the Quran. You've no obligation to adhere to these opinions, but if you are ignorant and not knowing, perhaps they should be considered. Taking your lead from one of the main madhab should be viewed as picking a teacher, not a sect,cult or gang.

Without a teacher how do you gain knowledge? Revelation? Aren't you then putting yourself on par with rasulallah?

That's just silly talk so you must find a teacher, so that you obtain knowledge for it states in the Quran:

Allah will exalt those who believe among you, and those who have been granted knowledge to high ranks. [58:11]

And say: My Lord increase me in knowledge. [20:114]

It is only those who have knowledge among His servants that fear Allah. [35:28]

and the Prophet(saw) said:

Seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim [Ibn Majaah]

Whoever follows a path in the pursuit of knowledge, Allah will make a path to Paradise easy for him. [Bukhari]

When Allah wishes good for a person, He makes him understand the religion.[Bukhari]

reading Quran only, is good, don't get me wrong but adding to it, hadith, specifically the two hadis I mentioned I definitely see as mustahabb
 
As to the distinction between Muslim and Islamist, I would suggest that the latter does not distinguish between politics and religion, where the former does.

In a recent Pew survey in Britain, over 2/3 of the Muslims living there wanted any speech critical of Islam to be punishable by law. Accordingly, 2/3 of British Muslims should be classified as Islamist.

If I am highly critical of that 2/3 of British Muslims who are Islamist and find their views incompatible with western liberalism, that does not mean I am critical of all Muslims -- especially the 1/3 who are not Islamist.

If there is a struggle within Islam for its heart and soul, I would think the best approach would be to give full support to the likes of Medusa who DOES promote liberal values, while remaining critical of those Muslims who do not. In this regard, I find precious few people who seem to get it, because members of the left (especially European) all too often defend the Islamists under the misapprehension they are defending all Muslims, while the right (especially American) all too often does not distinguish between the two and so refuses to support the more liberal Muslims.
 
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