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Noetic science

sawyerloggingon

sawyerloggingon

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I have been reading alot about Noetic science lately and I can't make up my mind if it's science, religion, both or just a bunch of hogwash. Fascinating theory though and I have a couple more books on it to read. In a way it is like the old positive thinking theory but with spirituality thrown in. The science is that thoughts have mass. Like I said, fascinating stuff.

no•et•ic sci•ences: A multidisciplinary field that brings objective scientific tools and techniques together with subjective inner knowing to study the full range of human experience.
In other words, there are several ways we can know the world around us. Science focuses on external observation and is grounded in objective evaluation, measurement, and experimentation. This is useful in increasing objectivity and reducing bias and inaccuracy as we interpret what we observe.
But another way of knowing is subjective -- or internal -- including gut feelings, intuition, hunches -- the way you know you love your children, for example, or experiences you have that cannot be explained or proven, but feel absolutely real nonetheless. This way of knowing is what we call noetic.
From a purely materialist, mechanistic perspective, all subjective -- noetic -- experience arises from physical matter, and consciousness is simply a byproduct of brain and body processes. The noetic sciences focus on bringing a scientific lens to the study of subjective experience, and to ways that consciousness may influence the physical world.
 
Well, I read this, thought about it awhile and read it again and I have come to two conclusions: I am not sure that trying to measure women's intuition scientifically requires a science because I can tell you my wife's women's intuition couldn't be more wrong than if she were a 6'6" Hell's Angel named Bruno; and this sounds an awful lot like those ghost hunter shows and I don't buy that stupid little EMF detector proving there was a ghost either.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I have been reading alot about Noetic science lately and I can't make up my mind if it's science, religion, both or just a bunch of hogwash. Fascinating theory though and I have a couple more books on it to read. In a way it is like the old positive thinking theory but with spirituality thrown in. The science is that thoughts have mass. Like I said, fascinating stuff.

no•et•ic sci•ences: A multidisciplinary field that brings objective scientific tools and techniques together with subjective inner knowing to study the full range of human experience.
In other words, there are several ways we can know the world around us. Science focuses on external observation and is grounded in objective evaluation, measurement, and experimentation. This is useful in increasing objectivity and reducing bias and inaccuracy as we interpret what we observe.
But another way of knowing is subjective -- or internal -- including gut feelings, intuition, hunches -- the way you know you love your children, for example, or experiences you have that cannot be explained or proven, but feel absolutely real nonetheless. This way of knowing is what we call noetic.
From a purely materialist, mechanistic perspective, all subjective -- noetic -- experience arises from physical matter, and consciousness is simply a byproduct of brain and body processes. The noetic sciences focus on bringing a scientific lens to the study of subjective experience, and to ways that consciousness may influence the physical world.
Click to expand...


:shrug: Hard to say. Personally I think that things like love, hate, empathy, intuition and so forth are as real as protons and electrons, but much more resistant to scientific quantification. An interesting issue is the quantum-mechanical discovery that observing an event influences the event... even though it is hard to explain how a passive action like observation could have a causal effect. It makes one wonder about how much our thoughts and beliefs might affect the reality we experience...
 
If you skip an appointment with your psychic, you should never need to pay a penalty because the psychic should have known you wouldn't be there and should have re-scheduled the time slot.
 
code1211 said:
If you skip an appointment with your psychic, you should never need to pay a penalty because the psychic should have known you wouldn't be there and should have re-scheduled the time slot.
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:lamo :lamo
 
I admit to prejudice whenever I read "multi-disciplinary" or "multi-cultural" because so often these terms are code.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I have been reading alot about Noetic science lately and I can't make up my mind if it's science, religion, both or just a bunch of hogwash. Fascinating theory though and I have a couple more books on it to read. In a way it is like the old positive thinking theory but with spirituality thrown in. The science is that thoughts have mass. Like I said, fascinating stuff.

no•et•ic sci•ences: A multidisciplinary field that brings objective scientific tools and techniques together with subjective inner knowing to study the full range of human experience.
In other words, there are several ways we can know the world around us. Science focuses on external observation and is grounded in objective evaluation, measurement, and experimentation. This is useful in increasing objectivity and reducing bias and inaccuracy as we interpret what we observe.
But another way of knowing is subjective -- or internal -- including gut feelings, intuition, hunches -- the way you know you love your children, for example, or experiences you have that cannot be explained or proven, but feel absolutely real nonetheless. This way of knowing is what we call noetic.
From a purely materialist, mechanistic perspective, all subjective -- noetic -- experience arises from physical matter, and consciousness is simply a byproduct of brain and body processes. The noetic sciences focus on bringing a scientific lens to the study of subjective experience, and to ways that consciousness may influence the physical world.
Click to expand...

The first time I heard of "noetics" was in a roleplaying game about psychic powers.
 
Noetic science is the illegitimte offspring of parapsychology, which in turn is nothing to do with real psychology, but a lot to do with trying to validate the paranormal.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Noetic science is the illegitimte offspring of parapsychology, which in turn is nothing to do with real psychology, but a lot to do with trying to validate the paranormal.
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I have no problem with paranormal investigation, though. I don't really put much stock into it, but I think it's cool and fun.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Noetic science is the illegitimte offspring of parapsychology, which in turn is nothing to do with real psychology, but a lot to do with trying to validate the paranormal.
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validate fantasy/fiction? what a waste of time, for those with a real science education....
IMO, it is entertainment for twits....:2razz:
 
UtahBill said:
validate fantasy/fiction? what a waste of time, for those with a real science education....
IMO, it is entertainment for twits....:2razz:
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You're calling this guy a twit?

"The term noetic sciences was first coined in 1973 when the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) was founded by Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, who two years earlier became the sixth man to walk on the moon.[/B] Ironically, it was the trip back home that Mitchell recalls most, during which he felt a profound sense of universal connectedness—what he later described as a samadhi experience. In Mitchell’s own words, “The presence of divinity became almost palpable, and I knew that life in the universe was not just an accident based on random processes. . . .The knowledge came to me directly.”

"It led him to conclude that reality is more complex, subtle, and mysterious than conventional science had led him to believe. Perhaps a deeper understanding of consciousness (inner space) could lead to a new and expanded understanding of reality in which objective and subjective, outer and inner, are understood as co-equal aspects of the miracle of being. It was this intersection of knowledge systems that led Dr. Mitchell to launch the interdisciplinary field "

What are the Noetic Sciences? | About | Institute of Noetic Sciences
 
sawyerloggingon said:
You're calling this guy a twit?

"The term noetic sciences was first coined in 1973 when the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) was founded by Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, who two years earlier became the sixth man to walk on the moon.[/B] Ironically, it was the trip back home that Mitchell recalls most, during which he felt a profound sense of universal connectedness—what he later described as a samadhi experience. In Mitchell’s own words, “The presence of divinity became almost palpable, and I knew that life in the universe was not just an accident based on random processes. . . .The knowledge came to me directly.”

"It led him to conclude that reality is more complex, subtle, and mysterious than conventional science had led him to believe. Perhaps a deeper understanding of consciousness (inner space) could lead to a new and expanded understanding of reality in which objective and subjective, outer and inner, are understood as co-equal aspects of the miracle of being. It was this intersection of knowledge systems that led Dr. Mitchell to launch the interdisciplinary field "

What are the Noetic Sciences? | About | Institute of Noetic Sciences
Click to expand...
more like someone who had an unexplained warm fuzzy feeling and now he wants to be some kind of messiah....
I had a similar experience once, when I was taking Lithium....
 
The whole concept is utterly false. Intuition and other feelings are nothing more than electrons and chemicals moving around in your brain. It should be apparently obvious when you can trivially manipulate such perceptions with drugs. The path to learning more about feelings is better linking emotion to externally observable phenomenon, not unreliable navel gazing.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
You're calling this guy a twit?

"The term noetic sciences was first coined in 1973 when the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) was founded by Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, who two years earlier became the sixth man to walk on the moon.[/B] Ironically, it was the trip back home that Mitchell recalls most, during which he felt a profound sense of universal connectedness—what he later described as a samadhi experience. In Mitchell’s own words, “The presence of divinity became almost palpable, and I knew that life in the universe was not just an accident based on random processes. . . .The knowledge came to me directly.”

"It led him to conclude that reality is more complex, subtle, and mysterious than conventional science had led him to believe. Perhaps a deeper understanding of consciousness (inner space) could lead to a new and expanded understanding of reality in which objective and subjective, outer and inner, are understood as co-equal aspects of the miracle of being. It was this intersection of knowledge systems that led Dr. Mitchell to launch the interdisciplinary field "

What are the Noetic Sciences? | About | Institute of Noetic Sciences
Click to expand...

If "inner knowledge" is co-equal to observable reality, than Mr. Mitchell would have no objection to guiding a rocket based on feelings rather than physics? Strange that he relied purely on science when his ass was on the line, but pushes other philosophies when it doesn't have any consequences if he is wrong.
 
rathi said:
If "inner knowledge" is co-equal to observable reality, than Mr. Mitchell would have no objection to guiding a rocket based on feelings rather than physics? Strange that he relied purely on science when his ass was on the line, but pushes other philosophies when it doesn't have any consequences if he is wrong.
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The hostility expressed toward this theory is interesting. Does it stem from atheism that detest all talk of spirituality or from religion which detest any other point of view on spirituality besides their own?
 
sawyerloggingon said:
The hostility expressed toward this theory is interesting. Does it stem from atheism that detest all talk of spirituality or from religion which detest any other point of view on spirituality besides their own?
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Why do you feel that my argument demonstrating logical inconsistency is hostile? Mitchell's claims are false, but that doesn't make him a bad person. He demonstrated courage and conviction when he risked his life to expand human knowledge.
 
It's not a theory, it's a bunch of woo woo promoted by an astronaut who felt touched by the divine during his return to Earth and his RWNJ Christianist partner, Paul N Temple..
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I have been reading alot about Noetic science lately and I can't make up my mind if it's science, religion, both or just a bunch of hogwash. Fascinating theory though and I have a couple more books on it to read. In a way it is like the old positive thinking theory but with spirituality thrown in. The science is that thoughts have mass. Like I said, fascinating stuff.
Click to expand...

Thanks- that's a term I was not familiar with, but find interesting food for thought. :)
 
rathi said:
Why do you feel that my argument demonstrating logical inconsistency is hostile? Mitchell's claims are false, but that doesn't make him a bad person. He demonstrated courage and conviction when he risked his life to expand human knowledge.
Click to expand...

Your previous post seemed hostile toward the guy, no big deal I was just wondering why.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I have been reading alot about Noetic science lately and I can't make up my mind if it's science, religion, both or just a bunch of hogwash. Fascinating theory though and I have a couple more books on it to read. In a way it is like the old positive thinking theory but with spirituality thrown in. The science is that thoughts have mass. Like I said, fascinating stuff.

no•et•ic sci•ences: A multidisciplinary field that brings objective scientific tools and techniques together with subjective inner knowing to study the full range of human experience.
In other words, there are several ways we can know the world around us. Science focuses on external observation and is grounded in objective evaluation, measurement, and experimentation. This is useful in increasing objectivity and reducing bias and inaccuracy as we interpret what we observe.
But another way of knowing is subjective -- or internal -- including gut feelings, intuition, hunches -- the way you know you love your children, for example, or experiences you have that cannot be explained or proven, but feel absolutely real nonetheless. This way of knowing is what we call noetic.
From a purely materialist, mechanistic perspective, all subjective -- noetic -- experience arises from physical matter, and consciousness is simply a byproduct of brain and body processes. The noetic sciences focus on bringing a scientific lens to the study of subjective experience, and to ways that consciousness may influence the physical world.
Click to expand...

I think you were on the right track with calling it mostly hogwash. The Institute of Noetic Sciences, the group that produces most of the papers, research, media attention, etc for this idea has been regarded fairly consistently as a pseudo-scientific organization, and made it onto a few quackery lists.

Moreover
"But another way of knowing is subjective -- or internal -- including gut feelings, intuition, hunches -- the way you know you love your children, for example, or experiences you have that cannot be explained or proven, but feel absolutely real nonetheless. This way of knowing is what we call noetic."
Click to expand...
is an awfully simplistic way to answer what is a complex neurological and philosophical question that has many different answers to it. To just say, Noetic! Is worse than a cop-out, it's pretty much a lie.

Edit: I should add, we DO study subjective experiences. We do it in neuroscience and associated fields all the time.
 
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