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Dogs Dont Go To Heaven

Moderator's Warning:
Okay, folks... I get the humor references but DP rules do not allow for STFU, namecalling, personal attacks, and suchlike. Also, on top of that this is the Religious Discussion Forum, where we enforce such things quite strictly due to the volatile nature of the topic, and where the non-existence of God is not a topic for discussion. Discuss the OP topic if you will, but I must require you all to can the personal stuff and remember the Religion Forum rules.
 
Check out Rainbow Bridge. Read it.
 
ALL dogs go to Heaven. I guess you never saw the movie. ;)
 
paris said:
That's a lie, that weak people tell their children. Dogs are meant to die. They're like flowers, except they bark and don't smell as good. So when you bury them in your garden, don't lie to your children. Please.
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Lies

MV5BMTIyMjI5MTUxMV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMDI0ODY5._V1._SY317_CR1,0,214,317_.jpg
 
To Paris. :)

 
paris said:
That's a lie, that weak people tell their children. Dogs are meant to die. They're like flowers, except they bark and don't smell as good. So when you bury them in your garden, don't lie to your children. Please.
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Correct. Dogs have a material soul which expires upon their death.
 
paris said:
That's a lie, that weak people tell their children. Dogs are meant to die. They're like flowers, except they bark and don't smell as good. So when you bury them in your garden, don't lie to your children. Please.
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Where's the harm in easing a young child's grief?

There is a time in being honestly frank to talk about death, and it depends on the age or maturity of a child.

While writing letters to Santa, I remember a child of about 5, asked: "Will Santa bring my grandpa back?"

I said, "no. But I'm sure he can pass on your message to him." It lighted his face and proceeded to make a letter to Santa.
 
paris said:
That's a lie, that weak people tell their children.
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You've mistaken sensible caring, empathy, and utmost consideration for "weakness."

Some children had grown deep attachments to pets, therefore one can just imagine the sense of loss.
Being brutally frank to a very young child is not only quite insensitively uncaring - it's downright, cruel.


There are realities in life that you just don't go about brutally spilling to a child. They will learn about life's painful realities soon enough.....but in the mean time, it is best to have them enjoy their short bliss of innocence.
All children are not the same. It depends on their maturity.

Should we be frank and honest, and say to a 5 year-old for example: well, your dad didn't want to have a baby. He wanted to get rid of you - abortion or give you away to someone else - but your mom stood her ground. That's why your dad is drinking quite heavily and hardly spends any time with you. He's not ready to face the responsibility of being a daddy. That's why he decided to get a divorce and live somewhere else.
 
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Pets are a tool for teaching children about death and loss, before the adults in their life start dying off.
 
paris said:
Good question.

I don't believe I'm going to heaven, no way.

Now I believe if there is a God, he's made sure the riffraffs go to hell so it makes me
happy to know I'll meet you all and my dogs again.Sorry.
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How can you be certain if your premise is based on an assumption?

IF there is no God - who knows for certain what happens when we die? Who knows where we're going - or if we're going anywhere at all? :mrgreen:


What's interesting is that for someone who don't believe in God, why all this pre-occupation in the after-life?
 
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paris said:
That's a lie, that weak people tell their children. Dogs are meant to die. They're like flowers, except they bark and don't smell as good. So when you bury them in your garden, don't lie to your children. Please.
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Same thing with grandma.
 
tosca1 said:
Where's the harm in easing a young child's grief?

There is a time in being honestly frank to talk about death, and it depends on the age or maturity of a child.

While writing letters to Santa, I remember a child of about 5, asked: "Will Santa bring my grandpa back?"

I said, "no. But I'm sure he can pass on your message to him." It lighted his face and proceeded to make a letter to Santa.
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It's a lie. And worse it's a lie about that which is sacred.
 
Paleocon said:
It's a lie. And worse it's a lie about that which is sacred.
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How can it be a lie when no one knows exactly if animals have an afterlife? The Bible didn't say much about their fate, but they have a value in God's eyes. Perhaps we need not know what becomes of them since we (who are created in the image of God) has to worry and focus about our own salvation. The Bible is focused on the salvation of Man.

However, we are likened to animals:


Ecclesiastes 3:18
18 I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.”


The result of earthly death is the same for man and animals. Equal in death.

Ecclesiastes 3
19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.

As the verse by Solomon indicate, animals have spirit. Therefore, we cannot say for certain that there is no doggie "heaven,"

Ecclesiastes 3
21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?
 
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tosca1 said:
How can it be a lie when no one knows exactly if animals have an afterlife? The Bible didn't say much about their fate, but they have a value in God's eyes. Perhaps we need not know what becomes of them since we (who are created in the image of God) has to worry and focus about our own salvation. The Bible is focused on the salvation of Man.

However, we are likened to animals:


Ecclesiastes 3:18
18 I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.”


The result of earthly death is the same for man and animals. Equal in death.

Ecclesiastes 3
19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.

As the verse by Solomon indicate, animals have spirit. Therefore, we cannot say for certain that there is no doggie "heaven,"

Ecclesiastes 3
21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?
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Exactly what spiritual component do animals have?
 
Animals serve a purpose in God's plan. He also see to their needs.

Matthew 6
26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
 
Paleocon said:
Exactly what spiritual component do animals have?
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We don't know.

What we do know is that, according to Solomon, they have a spirit....and no one can be certain that animals don't have an afterlife.
 
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tosca1 said:
We don't know.

What we do know is that, they have a spirit....and no one can be certain that animals don't have an afterlife.
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False. They don't have a spirit, on account of the fact that they are purely material creatures.
 
Paleocon said:
False. They don't have a spirit, on account of the fact that they are purely material creatures.
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I think I'd take the word of Solomon instead, thank you.

Furthermore, where do you base your conclusion?

How do you know man is not purely a material creature? Have you seen a man's spirit?
Did science prove man has a spirit?
 
tosca1 said:
I think I'd take the word of Solomon instead, thank you.

Furthermore, where do you base your conclusion?

How do you know man is not purely a material creature? Have you seen a man's spirit? Did science prove man has a spirit?
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Solomon didn't say that animals have an afterlife.

1. Man can ponder universals (philosophical concepts not related to a specific situation (human nature, God, right and wrong, etc.))
2. Universals are, by definition immaterial
3. Therefore immaterial things exist within the mind of man
4. The lesser cannot contain the greater
5. Therefore man possesses a spiritual component, as well as a material component
 
Paleocon said:
Solomon didn't say that animals have an afterlife.

1. Man can ponder universals (philosophical concepts not related to a specific situation (human nature, God, right and wrong, etc.))
2. Universals are, by definition immaterial
3. Therefore immaterial things exist within the mind of man
4. The lesser cannot contain the greater
5. Therefore man possesses a spiritual component, as well as a material component
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That's your opinion.

Solomon did compare man with animals, including the fact that our earthly bodies are going back to dust. He did say that animals have spirit. He did hinted that they do have an after life - their spirit - except that we do not know where they'd go. I'm simply basing my opinion from the verse by Solomon.
 
Isaiah 11 gives a prophecy about the Kingdom of Christ and they do include animals. Could this be heaven?


Isaiah 11

New International Version (NIV)


The Branch From Jesse


11 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.

2
The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of might,
the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the Lord—

3
and he will delight in the fear of the Lord.


He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes,
or decide by what he hears with his ears;

4
but with righteousness he will judge the needy,
with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth;
with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.

5
Righteousness will be his belt
and faithfulness the sash around his waist.



6
The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling[a] together;
and a little child will lead them.

7
The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

8
The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

9
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.
 
OH GOODNESS! And the answer to my question is here!



Isaiah 65

New Heavens and a New Earth

17
“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.

18
But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.

19
I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.



20
“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach[a] a hundred
will be considered accursed.

21
They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

22
No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.

23
They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.

24
Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.

25
The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord.
 
tosca1 said:
That's your opinion.

Solomon did compare man with animals, including the fact that our earthly bodies are going back to dust. He did say that animals have spirit. He did hinted that they do have an after life - their spirit - except that we do not know where they'd go. I'm simply basing my opinion from the verse by Solomon.
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None of that is opinion.

He didn't say they have spirit. No matter how many times you make that assertion, it will remain false.

tosca1 said:
OH GOODNESS! And the answer to my question is here!



Isaiah 65

New Heavens and a New Earth

17
“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.

18
But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.

19
I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.



20
“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach[a] a hundred
will be considered accursed.

21
They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

22
No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.

23
They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.

24
Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.

25
The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord.
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It doesn't say that dead animals will be resurrected. Although even if they are resurrected, that still doesn't mean they continue existing in the interim.
 
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