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Hell & The Devil

Fisher said:
While I tend to be more free-form in my opinions of Heaven and Hell, I do think the Jehovah Witnesses have an interesting Biblical take on it which seems to be supported by scripture. Basically we die and cease to exist until the end of time at which point those who will be resurrected to live on earth for eternity will be and the rest just cease to exist.
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With all respect, what is time? I've always had an issue with that. If one does not exist there is then nothing to be "resurrected."
 
Risky Thicket said:
With all respect, what is time? I've always had an issue with that. If one does not exist there is then nothing to be "resurrected."
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You would have to ask a Witness what they think, but I assume that time ends upon Jesus' return to earth. As for the other, I suppose that would require a religious scholar to answer as you believe in it or you don't as a tenant of your faith or lack thereof.
 
Goshin said:
Biblically, Hell was created as a prison for Lucifer (an angel who rebelled against God) and the angels who followed him in his attempted coup.

Lucifer (the "devil") does not rule in hell; it is his prison.


Humanity was created perfect and without sin, until we chose the freewill to act against God's plan and commit evil, rather than remaining in innocence. Hell was prepared as a place for the devil and other fallen angels, powerful spiritual beings... but when humanity became corrupt it also served as a prison for the souls of the damned.

It is my personal belief that in every human soul there is born a spark of divinity, an instinctive connection with our Creator. In life, we either choose to accept and nourish that spark or reject and smother it.
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So who goes to Hell?

What "evil" is used as the yard-stick to decide who goes and who doesn't?

Where is the soul of the Native American Indian that lived and died without ever knowing of the Bible and/or JC?
Where is the soul of the Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, and Jew if they don't fall into the "JC is my lord and savior" group of believers?

Is being completely Agnostic, and open to all possibilities, enough of an "evil" to damn a soul to eternal fire?

Surely God, being who he/she is, knew long before it happened that "we" would chose to act against the "plan" and that "we'd commit evil".
So why would that be enough to damn us? He/She created us to do just that. Surely the "plan" was for "us" to chose freewill, so "we" actually followed the plan.

So you've answered that Hell and Lucifer exist, in your beliefs, but you've not really answered as to how a person's soul ends up there.
 
Dragonfly said:
So who goes to Hell?

What "evil" is used as the yard-stick to decide who goes and who doesn't?

Where is the soul of the Native American Indian that lived and died without ever knowing of the Bible and/or JC?
Where is the soul of the Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, and Jew if they don't fall into the "JC is my lord and savior" group of believers?

Is being completely Agnostic, and open to all possibilities, enough of an "evil" to damn a soul to eternal fire?

Surely God, being who he/she is, knew long before it happened that "we" would chose to act against the "plan" and that "we'd commit evil".
So why would that be enough to damn us? He/She created us to do just that. Surely the "plan" was for "us" to chose freewill, so "we" actually followed the plan.

So you've answered that Hell and Lucifer exist, in your beliefs, but you've not really answered as to how a person's soul ends up there.
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I don't know of anywhere that I have claimed to have all the answers to life, the universe, and everything. :)


Oh wait, yes I do... it is forty-two!! :mrgreen:



Okay, I'll be serious.... in essense you are asking "what about those who are ignorant of Christianity, or have never had it presented to them in a clear and convincing manner, or who just don't know what to believe?"

Well, there are a number of theories that bounce around the theological sphere; most of which fall into one of these three categories.

1. They go to Hell for failing to accept Christ, regardless of ignorance or etc.
2. They are judged based on their actions and intentions, and "what they did with what they knew".
3. All faiths lead up the same mountain, they just take different paths.



Personally I do not believe #3. That leaves me with #1 or 2. I would prefer to believe #2, but I'd point out there is a difference between true ignorance and willful ignorance... and I'd hate to die in the hope that "I didn't know, for sure" would save my soul... because I'm not sure if that is so.


I suppose that is an elaborate way of saying "I am uncertain", but as I said I don't claim to have all the answers.

I know what I believe though, and why I believe it, and I am content with trusting my soul to what I believe. If you can't answer the same, perhaps some further thought on the matter is in order.


Or not, as you please. :shrug:
 
Last edited:
I'm simply asking what people believe. I understand you, and 100% of everybody else don't have the full answers to any of the questions, but surely you and everybody else have speculations and beliefs.

I don't believe in anything the Bible states. So my answers are simple. There is no Hell, and there is no Devil.

I'm strongly curious as to what believers think though.

I find it completely impossible to believe "god" gave us the abilities to think and question but never intended for us to think about and question his/her existence.

I don't believe a "god" that's supposed to be so loving and caring would condemn any soul to eternal hell for the vast majority of things most people think might send them there.

I surely don't think there can be only one, highly specific path to salvation, regardless of there being a god or not.

The definitions of religion and their tenets are 100% written and perceived by humans. Historically humans have proven time and again they are uniquely fallible.

The world was once flat. The Earth was once the center of the universe. Flight was impossible. Witch trials.

I think there's an almost insane arrogance to someone who thinks they know exactly what is the one and only path to something as uncertain and unknown as god, heaven, and hell.

Which is also why I find it fascinating to have these kinds of discussions.
 
Dragonfly said:
Do you believe there is a Devil, and that there is a Hell?
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In a way, but I don't call it Hell.

What are your beliefs in how one ends up in Hell?
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Interesting question, since I don't believe hell is a place.

Does God ultimately oversee Hell? Is God the true manager of Hell?
He'd have to be if God is the supreme creator and power of all things.
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You'll get better results if you don't jump to conclusions, and answer your own questions.

Explain how you personally define this part of your ideology. Please.
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Hell is the state of nonexistence.
 
Risky Thicket said:
With all respect, what is time? I've always had an issue with that. If one does not exist there is then nothing to be "resurrected."
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In the context given, end of times simply refers to the Apocalypse, and not actual space/time. It's just a colloquialism, nothing more.
 
Dragonfly said:
Do you believe there is a Devil, and that there is a Hell?

What are your beliefs in how one ends up in Hell?

Does God ultimately oversee Hell? Is God the true manager of Hell?
He'd have to be if God is the supreme creator and power of all things.

The notion and concept of a Devil and Hell is fascinating.

Considering the variety and differences in the world's religions, I'm curious as to what people think regarding Hell, and who goes there, and why.


Does a Catholic believe that all non-Catholics will go to Hell? Jews? Muslims? Baptists? Hindus?

Does God send souls to Hell? Or does the Devil take them? Is the Devil as powerful as God?

Is the devil a god of sorts?

Explain how you personally define this part of your ideology. Please.
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Hell is a separation from God

Hell is a place of suffering, but you've got to read everything in context to understand it
 
ric27 said:
Hell is a separation from God

Hell is a place of suffering, but you've got to read everything in context to understand it
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That is assuming one believes everything in the Bible or Q'ran to be the literal word of God. If one doesn't,regardless of whether it is true or not, it means absolutely nothing. A Persons religious belief is and should be a personal thing between that individual and their deity. While One can make arguments for and against the validity of the Bible, Q'ran, Book of Counted Shadows, Mahabarata, The Vedas and countless other 'Holy Books', the fact of the matter is whether they are or are not written or inspired by a deity is speculation based solely on faith. No one can KNOW with absolute certainly via any medium other than faith that they are indeed as valid as is claimed.
 
Only a child could believe in satan or hell.
 
ric27 said:
Hell is a separation from God

Hell is a place of suffering, but you've got to read everything in context to understand it
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I won't ever "understand it" because I don't believe it exists.

What I'm asking is what you think and believe.

Do you go to hell for not going to church?
Do you go to hell for watching porn?
Do you go to hell for stealing an apple when you were 12?
Do you go to hell for questioning if the whole "god" thing is real?

I know what I think. I'm asking what others think.

As I stated in an earlier post. I know some self-described christians who don't believe in hell or the devil.

So I asked for some opinions.
 
Dragonfly said:
I won't ever "understand it" because I don't believe it exists.

What I'm asking is what you think and believe.

Do you go to hell for not going to church?
Do you go to hell for watching porn?
Do you go to hell for stealing an apple when you were 12?
Do you go to hell for questioning if the whole "god" thing is real?

I know what I think. I'm asking what others think.

As I stated in an earlier post. I know some self-described christians who don't believe in hell or the devil.

So I asked for some opinions.
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Hell is complicated because of the mythology *such as devils and demons with pitchforks*, torturing sinners, etc. none of which is biblical.
 
spanky said:
Only a child could believe in satan or hell.
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"Jesus said, "'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the
kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.'"
 
nota bene said:
"Jesus said, "'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the
kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.'"
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Even Jesus knew the targeted market.
 
nota bene said:
"Jesus said, "'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the
kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.'"
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And Mithra is alleged to have said that same thing 500 years before the advent of Jesus and Horus is said to have made that statement 1000 years before the alleged birth of Jesus. Quoting the Bible only shows that YOU believe it to be true. Any holy book in and of itself cannot convince anyone that isn't already WANTING to be convinced to begin with. If one wishes to convince/convert a non-believer one must use something other that their holy book to give credence to their faith so that the non-believer realizes it is more than just words written by man thousands of years earlier in a different time.
 
WcBeasley said:
And Mithra is alleged to have said that same thing 500 years before the advent of Jesus and Horus is said to have made that statement 1000 years before the alleged birth of Jesus. Quoting the Bible only shows that YOU believe it to be true. Any holy book in and of itself cannot convince anyone that isn't already WANTING to be convinced to begin with. If one wishes to convince/convert a non-believer one must use something other that their holy book to give credence to their faith so that the non-believer realizes it is more than just words written by man thousands of years earlier in a different time.
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It's funny how much of the Judaism/Christianity faith can be traced to Egyptian, Babylonian/Persian and Roman/Greek sources. Let me see, the Jews came out of Egyptian bondage, were carted off in captivity (3 times) by Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus and then occupied by Rome.
 
Not to mention their entire flood story is swiped from Gilgamesh.
 
ric27 said:
Hell is complicated because of the mythology *such as devils and demons with pitchforks*, torturing sinners, etc. none of which is biblical.
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So explain to me what you think Hell is then?
 
spanky said:
It's funny how much of the Judaism/Christianity faith can be traced to Egyptian, Babylonian/Persian and Roman/Greek sources. Let me see, the Jews came out of Egyptian bondage, were carted off in captivity (3 times) by Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus and then occupied by Rome.
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Christianity has absolutely NOTHING unique about its tenets. EVERYTHING within it can be traced to older more established religions.
 
One of Abram's sons is a deity of Egypt. Seth-Set.
 
Even the Christian name for God....EL.....was the name of one of the Summerian/Assyrian deities.
 
The whole story of the "virgin conception by God and birth of the Son of God" is ripped off from the Egyptian Osiris-Isis-Horus myth.
 
I have no problem with anyone believing anything they want to believe. MY problem with most people of ANY faith is that they don't know WHY they believe as they do other than that was what they were taught. Its a matter of momentum that true faith.
 
WcBeasley said:
Christianity has absolutely NOTHING unique about its tenets. EVERYTHING within it can be traced to older more established religions.
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Christianity does have one thing unique, one thing they were first with, and it's what made Judaism the basis for 3 influential religions. Care to guess?

BTW - An argument could be made they weren't the first.
 
spanky said:
Christianity does have one thing unique, one thing they were first with, and it's what made Judaism the basis for 3 influential religions. Care to guess?

BTW - An argument could be made they weren't the first.
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If you are refering to Monotheism then nope they aren't. In fact even their NAME isn't unique.
 
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