Parenting and Religion

Goshin said:

I went to H.S. with a Church of Christ girl. She was not allowed to wear pants or shorts; she had to wear a skirt that came to the ankles. No jewelry, perfume or makeup.

Another gal went to a CofC that practiced "betrothal" where they'd pair up teenagers and tell them "okay, you two are going steady from now on", and more or less expect them to marry in due course.

WAY more old-school than the Baptist Church I grew up in....

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Wow, even worse than here. :lol:
That sounds more like the Pentecostals in this area. I grew up in a fundamentalist Baptist church, and when I was young, girls couldn't wear pants to church, but otherwise ( everywhere else) it was fine. We also wore make-up and jewelry, and dated relatively young. In fact, my parents were probably a little too lenient with me on the dating thing, lol.

Even the Fundamental Baptists have progressed now, and it's common for women to wear pants to church, funerals, and weddings.

lizzie said:

Over here, based on my own experience, Catholics and Presbyterians tend to be pretty laid back and non-evangelical (although there has been a relatively recent growing interest in charismatic Catholics). We have what are known as the charismatics, who are typically Pentecostal or very similar denominations. Then we have Southern Baptists and Fundamental Baptists. The Southern Baptists are fairly mild compared to the fundamentalist Baptists, but the fundamentalist Baptists aren't into the charismatic stuff that the Pentecostals are into. There is a wide range of Protestant church types here. Just off the top of my head, I can think of around 20. :lol:

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Down here southern Baptists are anything but laid back or mild. You should hear the stuff they say on the tube.

wolfman24 said:

It is my experience that the more conservative the church towards religion (Baptist, Fundamental, Evangelical, etc.) the more they use these tactics. Unitarian, Methodist and some Church of Christ tend to be more relaxed.

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could that be Disciples of Christ rather than Church of Christ followers who are not very dogmatic?

I don't always live the way a Christian is supposed to, but I have my beliefs and within the context of those beliefs, this is my opinion: In the end, no one can be forced to believe anything, so absolutely I'd allow her to question the beliefs she was raised with. Such is normal at this age. Ultimately it's each individual's choice to accept or reject any religious message. In the meantime, I would be praying for her to come to personally know God and most of all, I would do my darndest to set a good example, and never, ever belittle her opinions, much less punish her for them or tell her she's "disappointing God". Good grief! No wonder she wants to get away if that's the message she's getting. :2mad: That kind of attitude infuriates, because I believe that God is a God of love and always loves us despite whatever our actions are. Your coworker needs to stand down and try showing a little tolerance, patience and love for that girl, and focus more on the root causes of her attitude. Her current actions will only serve to drive her further away from God. She should remind herself of what her Bible teaches about how Jesus Himself treated "sinners" and she would do very well also to remember that we ALL fall under that umbrella. I wish the best for that poor girl. I hope her guardian pulls her head out of her butt before it's too late.

Goshin said:

I went to H.S. with a Church of Christ girl. She was not allowed to wear pants or shorts; she had to wear a skirt that came to the ankles. No jewelry, perfume or makeup.

Another gal went to a CofC that practiced "betrothal" where they'd pair up teenagers and tell them "okay, you two are going steady from now on", and more or less expect them to marry in due course.

WAY more old-school than the Baptist Church I grew up in....

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Wow! That sounds WAY more restrictive than the Church of Christ I used to attend. We had no rules that even came close to that level of restriction. :shock:

tessaesque said:

I'm going to preface my questions with a (hopefully) brief story:

One of my coworkers is a born again Christian. She had been to church as a child but had largely abandoned it during her early 20s to mid 30s. Her daughter convinced her to "find" Jesus again, so she rejoined a "Mega Church" in her late 30s. She is now in her late 50s. Through various circumstances, this coworker came to have primary custody of her (now 13 year old) granddaughter when the girl was 2 years old. Coworker has always raised her granddaughter in the church and has involved her in several of the church groups and programs over the years.

Recently, the granddaughter has begun going through some difficulties. She's feeling confined, she's feeling rejected by her bio-parents, and she has fears that she will exhibit the same negative characteristics that they have (characteristics my coworker reminds her of rather frequently). Coworker decided to put her granddaughter into therapy, provided through the church, focused solely on granddaughter's "insubordination" and "religious apathy". The underlying and primary issues have (IMO) largely been ignored.

So getting to the topic: Recently, granddaughter has become increasingly frustrated with her environment and circumstances, telling my coworker that she's tired of being forced to talk to the counselor about God. When coworker asked why her granddaughter didn't want to talk about God, granddaughter said, "Because "God", or "Jesus" or whomever..they were just men who were written about by men. And I'm sick of being told I'm disappointing some man who's been dead for thousands of years just because I'm upset with things."

So coworker's response was to ground granddaughter for "saying awful things about God", and increase her "therapy" sessions with the church counselor.

And now the questions: If you are religious, how would you handle your teenage child questioning the beliefs of your religion or challenging the veracity of religious history? Would you allow them to work through their questioning and disbelief and come to their own conclusions, or would you work vigorously and sternly to reinforce their beliefs without regard for their questions or statements of disbelief? Would you find their religious apathy/anger/questioning to be a more serious issue than other psychological issues that might be present?

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I am an odd contradiction. Though very religious, myself, I have no desire to spread that or expect the same of anyone else. Since the child is questioning her religious beliefs at the core, the LAST thing I'd do is send her somewhere where she was not allowed to question or explore those beliefs... which it sounds like would be the definition of the place where she is receiving counseling. This, to me, is poor parenting on many levels. Openness and allowing children to explore (under appropriate supervision and boundaries) allows them to become individuals and operate independently in a successful fashion. Remember... the number one, primary goal of parenting is to help your kids to no longer need you.

tessaesque said:

I'm going to preface my questions with a (hopefully) brief story:

One of my coworkers is a born again Christian. She had been to church as a child but had largely abandoned it during her early 20s to mid 30s. Her daughter convinced her to "find" Jesus again, so she rejoined a "Mega Church" in her late 30s. She is now in her late 50s. Through various circumstances, this coworker came to have primary custody of her (now 13 year old) granddaughter when the girl was 2 years old. Coworker has always raised her granddaughter in the church and has involved her in several of the church groups and programs over the years.

Recently, the granddaughter has begun going through some difficulties. She's feeling confined, she's feeling rejected by her bio-parents, and she has fears that she will exhibit the same negative characteristics that they have (characteristics my coworker reminds her of rather frequently). Coworker decided to put her granddaughter into therapy, provided through the church, focused solely on granddaughter's "insubordination" and "religious apathy". The underlying and primary issues have (IMO) largely been ignored.

So getting to the topic: Recently, granddaughter has become increasingly frustrated with her environment and circumstances, telling my coworker that she's tired of being forced to talk to the counselor about God. When coworker asked why her granddaughter didn't want to talk about God, granddaughter said, "Because "God", or "Jesus" or whomever..they were just men who were written about by men. And I'm sick of being told I'm disappointing some man who's been dead for thousands of years just because I'm upset with things."

So coworker's response was to ground granddaughter for "saying awful things about God", and increase her "therapy" sessions with the church counselor.

And now the questions: If you are religious, how would you handle your teenage child questioning the beliefs of your religion or challenging the veracity of religious history? Would you allow them to work through their questioning and disbelief and come to their own conclusions, or would you work vigorously and sternly to reinforce their beliefs without regard for their questions or statements of disbelief? Would you find their religious apathy/anger/questioning to be a more serious issue than other psychological issues that might be present?

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The "grandmother" has serious issues and needs to seek counseling ASAP.

I hope the child in this situation is able to survive through this part of her life with as little emotional baggage as possible, but I fear for her and think the grandmother is doing much more harm than good.

I'd hope the child could find another place to live. Perhaps the other set of grandparents, or another family member.

What an awful situation. Destructive and dysfunctional. Truly sad. Somewhat abusive in my mind as well.

justabubba said:

could that be Disciples of Christ rather than Church of Christ followers who are not very dogmatic?

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I do not know the DoC. All I am basing my statement on are the commericals I see for the CoC which clearly indicate thier openness towards people and other beliefs.

I realize that I might have made a mistake. I don't pretend to keep up with all the variations in religions nowadays there are so many, but I might have meant United Church of Christ. Is there a difference?

My Grandmother attends a very small Church of Christ in Oklahoma. When I was 5, they paraded me and several other children around a table upon which sat what looked like a fetus...in a jar. And we were screamed at, ordered to view the sin and murder before us, the crimes committed against the child via abortion.

At FIVE years old!

I hope this was an incident isolated to that church, but I swear to you I'll never step foot in there again. What they expose children to, what they tell them, HOW they tell them, it is all wrong.

tessaesque said:

My Grandmother attends a very small Church of Christ in Oklahoma. When I was 5, they paraded me and several other children around a table upon which sat what looked like a fetus...in a jar. And we were screamed at, ordered to view the sin and murder before us, the crimes committed against the child via abortion.

At FIVE years old!

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Abusive behavior. Repulsive.

tessaesque said:

My Grandmother attends a very small Church of Christ in Oklahoma. When I was 5, they paraded me and several other children around a table upon which sat what looked like a fetus...in a jar. And we were screamed at, ordered to view the sin and murder before us, the crimes committed against the child via abortion.

At FIVE years old!

I hope this was an incident isolated to that church, but I swear to you I'll never step foot in there again. What they expose children to, what they tell them, HOW they tell them, it is all wrong.

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Ever see Jesus Camp?

Ikari said:

Ever see Jesus Camp?

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I haven't. Is it a documentary or a movie?

The only religion-based documentary I've seen is Religulous...if you can consider that a documentary. Seemed more like a pompous asshole baiting stupid/ignorant people.

Religion is neither good nor bad. All people of all religions can be good at times or bad at times. Therefore I firmly believe there is little benefit from openly criticizing any religion. Many years ago my wife and I discussed Catholicism and Buddhism. I explained to her that it wasn't that I didn't like the Roman Catholic Church, but rather that I didn't agree with it. If I did I'd be Roman Catholic. I don't need any religion to be wrong so that my religion can be right. We are, each one of us, unique. One religion or any religion at all is not the answer for everyone.

Religion is personal. Let the little girl, then find her personal belief instead of having someone else's belief forced on her. I'm sure grandmother means well, but she is likely to chase the little girl away from grandmother's religious preference. "You must believe" really doesn't work if you don't believe. Done there and been that.

Truth prevails. Truth demands to be tested and retested. That is a good thing. One of the problems I have with fundamental practices even in Buddhism, is that you are often expected to believe because someone else has decided the truth. No, let me question and come to my own conclusions because when it comes down to it it's personal.

She is in my opinion a brave little girl. It is not an easy thing at all to question your parent's religion, especially down South. Damn near the entire world as you know it is against you. It is implied that something is wrong with you. Most people just keep quiet and make the motions. Once you publicly disavow your parent's faith you'd be amazed at how many people come up to you in private and say they wish they had the guts to get out. Instead they grin and bear it. That's their choice.

I was about her age when I started questioning virgin birth. I couldn't accept the answers. Later, I wanted to know if God was a man. Why did Jesus call God "Father"? Did God have sexual parts? That particular question was not well received. LOL! Once I discovered that pretty much everyone's answers were based on faith it was if all the questions flooded in, or out.

When I was 16 my parents allowed my blasphemous and rebellious young ass to go to any place of worship I wanted to on Sunday as long as I went. I loved the black churches. There was passion and feeling, and the music! The music was fantastic. Black people were much more accepting of me going to black churches than white people were accepting of me doing it. There was no pressure from my parents, we weren't raised that way. But, LOL!, I can imagine the gossip now.

Before I moved to Arizona I asked a Buddhist monk for recommendations for Arizona. He said, "Find a sangha (think congregation or community) that turns no one away and makes no one stay."

tessaesque said:

I haven't. Is it a documentary or a movie?

The only religion-based documentary I've seen is Religulous...if you can consider that a documentary. Seemed more like a pompous asshole baiting stupid/ignorant people.

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It's a documentary about the crazy style Evangelions.

Ikari said:

It's a documentary about the crazy style Evangelions.

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That hurt to watch.

Jredbaron96 said:

That hurt to watch.

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Tell me about it.When I first watched it on Youtube,it scared the daylights out of me thinking about what would happen to me and my familiy if those kids grow up and ever get into positions of power.

It must have been the UCoC then. My bad

Jredbaron96 said:

That hurt to watch.

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It wouldn't be my choice for my children by a long shot.

tessaesque said:

So coworker's response was to ground granddaughter for "saying awful things about God", and increase her "therapy" sessions with the church counselor.

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When I turned 14 years old my father wanted me to go see the priest to fix me because I gave him a hard time about opening up my own bookkeeping/taxation business. I went, as I had known that priest my whole life and trusted him. The priest started to tell me how wrong I was to want to open my own business and how I should listen to my father. My father was a bookbinder, I taught myself accounting etc I had clients lined up(mom & pop stores and tax season I would go to bars the patrons were not exactly the first in line to file their taxes this was in in the Bronx).

I asked the priest how my desire to get ahead was contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church. He said it was not. I said thanks and we never really spoke ever again, although he wanted to be my friend when I had a Facebook account; I opened it so my mother could have a friend.

I opened my business and it served me very well over the years long after I had graduated from law school and had my own firm.

I viewed this experience as a stand alone occurrence and it did not dissuade me from my interest religious and spiritual views. Taking courses in religion and attending college and graduate school there were heavily influenced by religion not just Catholicism, but, an other religion where I had to observe their practices although I was not a member of the religion, just a nice "goy".

And now the questions: If you are religious, how would you handle your teenage child questioning the beliefs of your religion or challenging the veracity of religious history? Would you allow them to work through their questioning and disbelief and come to their own conclusions, or would you work vigorously and sternly to reinforce their beliefs without regard for their questions or statements of disbelief? Would you find their religious apathy/anger/questioning to be a more serious issue than other psychological issues that might be present?

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By being honest, open minded and willing to listen and support their spiritual/religious journey.

tessaesque said:

I'm going to preface my questions with a (hopefully) brief story:

One of my coworkers is a born again Christian. She had been to church as a child but had largely abandoned it during her early 20s to mid 30s. Her daughter convinced her to "find" Jesus again, so she rejoined a "Mega Church" in her late 30s. She is now in her late 50s. Through various circumstances, this coworker came to have primary custody of her (now 13 year old) granddaughter when the girl was 2 years old. Coworker has always raised her granddaughter in the church and has involved her in several of the church groups and programs over the years.

Recently, the granddaughter has begun going through some difficulties. She's feeling confined, she's feeling rejected by her bio-parents, and she has fears that she will exhibit the same negative characteristics that they have (characteristics my coworker reminds her of rather frequently). Coworker decided to put her granddaughter into therapy, provided through the church, focused solely on granddaughter's "insubordination" and "religious apathy". The underlying and primary issues have (IMO) largely been ignored.

So getting to the topic: Recently, granddaughter has become increasingly frustrated with her environment and circumstances, telling my coworker that she's tired of being forced to talk to the counselor about God. When coworker asked why her granddaughter didn't want to talk about God, granddaughter said, "Because "God", or "Jesus" or whomever..they were just men who were written about by men. And I'm sick of being told I'm disappointing some man who's been dead for thousands of years just because I'm upset with things."

So coworker's response was to ground granddaughter for "saying awful things about God", and increase her "therapy" sessions with the church counselor.

And now the questions: If you are religious, how would you handle your teenage child questioning the beliefs of your religion or challenging the veracity of religious history? Would you allow them to work through their questioning and disbelief and come to their own conclusions, or would you work vigorously and sternly to reinforce their beliefs without regard for their questions or statements of disbelief? Would you find their religious apathy/anger/questioning to be a more serious issue than other psychological issues that might be present?

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The girl definitely needs to find a friend to confide in that would help carry the burden. Also, just because she is being made to go to therapy doesn't mean she has to say anything while there.

Verthaine said:

Tell me about it.When I first watched it on Youtube,it scared the daylights out of me thinking about what would happen to me and my familiy if those kids grow up and ever get into positions of power.

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I wasn't scared--although I was terribly distressed--because I knew that what I was seeing was a small group which doesn't represent Christianity as a whole by any means, any more than Fred Phelps and his inbred, evil spawn do.

But hey, if you think an extremely atypical example makes some sort of point, good for you!

tessaesque said:

I'm going to preface my questions with a (hopefully) brief story:

One of my coworkers is a born again Christian. She had been to church as a child but had largely abandoned it during her early 20s to mid 30s. Her daughter convinced her to "find" Jesus again, so she rejoined a "Mega Church" in her late 30s. She is now in her late 50s. Through various circumstances, this coworker came to have primary custody of her (now 13 year old) granddaughter when the girl was 2 years old. Coworker has always raised her granddaughter in the church and has involved her in several of the church groups and programs over the years.

Recently, the granddaughter has begun going through some difficulties. She's feeling confined, she's feeling rejected by her bio-parents, and she has fears that she will exhibit the same negative characteristics that they have (characteristics my coworker reminds her of rather frequently). Coworker decided to put her granddaughter into therapy, provided through the church, focused solely on granddaughter's "insubordination" and "religious apathy". The underlying and primary issues have (IMO) largely been ignored.

So getting to the topic: Recently, granddaughter has become increasingly frustrated with her environment and circumstances, telling my coworker that she's tired of being forced to talk to the counselor about God. When coworker asked why her granddaughter didn't want to talk about God, granddaughter said, "Because "God", or "Jesus" or whomever..they were just men who were written about by men. And I'm sick of being told I'm disappointing some man who's been dead for thousands of years just because I'm upset with things."

So coworker's response was to ground granddaughter for "saying awful things about God", and increase her "therapy" sessions with the church counselor.

And now the questions: If you are religious, how would you handle your teenage child questioning the beliefs of your religion or challenging the veracity of religious history? Would you allow them to work through their questioning and disbelief and come to their own conclusions, or would you work vigorously and sternly to reinforce their beliefs without regard for their questions or statements of disbelief? Would you find their religious apathy/anger/questioning to be a more serious issue than other psychological issues that might be present?

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Wow. I didn't know that you knew my wife. You have perfectly described her relationship with the grandmother who raised her.




Me and my household, we will serve the Lord. But it sounds like Grandma is dodging the issue by trying to hand it off to a counselor rather than taking it on herself.

tessaesque said:

I'm going to preface my questions with a (hopefully) brief story:

One of my coworkers is a born again Christian. She had been to church as a child but had largely abandoned it during her early 20s to mid 30s. Her daughter convinced her to "find" Jesus again, so she rejoined a "Mega Church" in her late 30s. She is now in her late 50s. Through various circumstances, this coworker came to have primary custody of her (now 13 year old) granddaughter when the girl was 2 years old. Coworker has always raised her granddaughter in the church and has involved her in several of the church groups and programs over the years.

Recently, the granddaughter has begun going through some difficulties. She's feeling confined, she's feeling rejected by her bio-parents, and she has fears that she will exhibit the same negative characteristics that they have (characteristics my coworker reminds her of rather frequently). Coworker decided to put her granddaughter into therapy, provided through the church, focused solely on granddaughter's "insubordination" and "religious apathy". The underlying and primary issues have (IMO) largely been ignored.

So getting to the topic: Recently, granddaughter has become increasingly frustrated with her environment and circumstances, telling my coworker that she's tired of being forced to talk to the counselor about God. When coworker asked why her granddaughter didn't want to talk about God, granddaughter said, "Because "God", or "Jesus" or whomever..they were just men who were written about by men. And I'm sick of being told I'm disappointing some man who's been dead for thousands of years just because I'm upset with things."

So coworker's response was to ground granddaughter for "saying awful things about God", and increase her "therapy" sessions with the church counselor.

And now the questions: If you are religious, how would you handle your teenage child questioning the beliefs of your religion or challenging the veracity of religious history? Would you allow them to work through their questioning and disbelief and come to their own conclusions, or would you work vigorously and sternly to reinforce their beliefs without regard for their questions or statements of disbelief? Would you find their religious apathy/anger/questioning to be a more serious issue than other psychological issues that might be present?

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Disclaimer: I don't have kids

First I would note that what you're describing sounds typical of the pseudo-psychology supported by many types of Protestants, particularly those of the fundamentalist-evangelical variety.

As for what would I do, I would let them work through it, trying to answer any questions they had. I would certainly not do anything that would foreseeably result in them fearing to discuss the faith with me, or that would be likely to drive them further away.

I would never use religion to manipulate them thinking it would automatically solve whatever other issue they had.