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Gay Marriage and God

Aunt Spiker said:
You know - a religious 'belief' only applies to those who 'believe' that religion.

I am not a Christian. Therefor - Christian doctrine and 'rules' simply don't apply to me.

The same goes to everyone else - and every other religion. Even though the Bible really tries to tell you otherwise - it's simply not true. I'm not bound by the 10 commandments and God's divine will because I choose not to be. And since out government offers marriage to people of ALL religions - apparently it decided it's not cleaving to the Christian Bible as if it's *the* law.
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It would be hard to do that anyway Check out these contradictions, by no means ALL of them. What are you supposed to believe in a bunch of writings about oral history during mythology times by hundred of different authors spanning over 2000 and the last group written 70 years after the death of some guy they name Jesus who has a life EXACTLY like that of Horus of Egypt who lived 600 years earlier and was a well known mythological figure during the time?

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
 
Muddy Creek said:
Seems rather weird that a god, which wants you to worship it, doesn't let you know what he thinks. Doesn't it?
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Muddy Creek said:
It would be hard to do that anyway Check out these contradictions, by no means ALL of them. What are you supposed to believe in a bunch of writings about oral history during mythology times by hundred of different authors spanning over 2000 and the last group written 70 years after the death of some guy they name Jesus who has a life EXACTLY like that of Horus of Egypt who lived 600 years earlier and was a well known mythological figure during the time?

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
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This forum is dedicated and limited to discussions of religion, faith, and spirituality. Threads/posts critical of religion and spiritual aspects are not allowed here and will result in a B/F/T Infraction + Thread Ban.
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http://www.debatepolitics.com/religious-discussions/105486-religious-discussions-forum.html

*Friendly heads-up*
 
Nightrider said:
It says in the bible that "the foolishness of God is infinitely smarter than the wisdom of man...." - New testament somewhere, I believe. Personally, I've been swearing by that verse lately - what that means to me is that none of us can possibly know (in all our worldly wisdom) what God is for or against.... Likewise, if God does some things that seem foolish to some of us (like create homosexuals), He is doing that for a reason - perhaps to teach us all something (like be more tolerant and compassionate)... AND no matter how much knowledge we accumulate, we can't ever touch the foolishness of God (which is smarter than all of us combined)...
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Quoted from what he said and then questioned why you would want a god that doesn't let you know what it thinks.

Then gave contradictions in the Bible. I've used words from a poster and quotes from the bible. Where is my infraction? Just curious.
 
Muddy Creek said:
Seems rather weird that a god, which wants you to worship it, doesn't let you know what he thinks. Doesn't it?
Click to expand...

He tells me he loves me all the time - that is all I need to know.... My only mission in life, at this point, is to try to be Christ like in all areas of my life. My old way was based on self and judging others - I'm letting God be the judge these days, not only of myself, but of others.

Look, judging others can work both ways, of course: For instance, I don't like it when someone who disagrees with me (or is different than me) judges me or others like me.... That can include homosexuals and people from other religious backgrounds... However, I believe the secret to life is me trying to understand others and love them, not vice versa. That was one of the points I was trying to make, anyways....

The second point I was making is that we are all God's children - he loves us all equally, since he created us all. I refuse to judge others - even those that don't believe in God. Some of the most "Christ like" people are those who have no faith at all - for one reason or another.... I've met atheists, for instance, whom are more perfect than me. Why judge them? The same concept, imho, applies to homosexuals.
 
Nightrider said:
He tells me he loves me all the time - that is all I need to know.... My only mission in life, at this point, is to try to be Christ like in all areas of my life. My old way was based on self and judging others - I'm letting God be the judge these days, not only of myself, but of others.

Look, judging others can work both ways, of course: For instance, I don't like it when someone who disagrees with me (or is different than me) judges me or others like me.... That can include homosexuals and people from other religious backgrounds... However, I believe the secret to life is me trying to understand others and love them, not vice versa. That was one of the points I was trying to make, anyways....

The second point I was making is that we are all God's children - he loves us all equally, since he created us all. I refuse to judge others - even those that don't believe in God. Some of the most "Christ like" people are those who have no faith at all - for one reason or another.... I've met atheists, for instance, whom are more perfect than me. Why judge them? The same concept, imho, applies to homosexuals.
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I understand now. Thanks. I certainly misjudged your post. Sorry. You seem to be on your way to a happy and mentally healthy life. Even those who don't believe in the bible agree that Christ's teachings were the most mentally healthy there are.
 
Muddy Creek said:
I understand now. Thanks. I certainly misjudged your post. Sorry. You seem to be on your way to a happy and mentally healthy life. Even those who don't believe in the bible agree that Christ's teachings were the most mentally healthy there are.
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God created me for a purpose - that purpose goes beyond my success, hopes and dreams.... It even goes beyond my own happiness. I was created by God for God, not the other way around - man did not create God for his purpose, God created us for His... And my purpose here in life is to prepare for eternity.... Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Nightrider said:
God created me for a purpose - that purpose goes beyond my success, hopes and dreams.... It even goes beyond my own happiness. I was created by God for God, not the other way around - man did not create God for his purpose, God created us for His... And my purpose here in life is to prepare for eternity.... Nothing more, nothing less.
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I respect your right to your religious freedom to believe what you want so long as it does not interfere with my right to NOT believe in religion.
 
Muddy Creek said:
I respect your right to your religious freedom to believe what you want so long as it does not interfere with my right to NOT believe in religion.
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Sorry and I understand now - didn't exactly know where you were going with this....

I apologize if I came on a little too strong.
 
Muddy Creek said:
I respect your right to your religious freedom to believe what you want so long as it does not interfere with my right to NOT believe in religion.
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Yes - and I think the 'I'll pray for you' crosses the line sometimes when it comes from certain people . . . depending on how assertive and intrusive they are with it.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Yes - and I think the 'I'll pray for you' crosses the line sometimes when it comes from certain people . . . depending on how assertive and intrusive they are with it.
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I generally shrug and respond with "I'll bet god decides not to honor your prayer, which is his right."

or

"Thanks but the garlic around my neck has worked out just fine most of my life."

or

"Knock yourself out."

It really makes no mind. I truly can see no god in these religions. Just MHO
 
Nightrider said:
Sorry and I understand now - didn't exactly know where you were going with this....

I apologize if I came on a little too strong.
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Don't ever apologize for being strong. But, no, you were not strong. Very civil.
 
I'm conflicted.

1) Was raised in a Traditional Apostolic-Pentecostal family.

2) Became a genuine Empiricist-Nihilist.

Now I wield both views at times, tackling an issue from multiples viewpoints, looking for truth.
 
Wake said:
I'm conflicted.

1) Was raised in a Traditional Apostolic-Pentecostal family.

2) Became a genuine Empiricist-Nihilist.

Now I wield both views at times, tackling an issue from multiples viewpoints, looking for truth.
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Brainwashed by religion when you are young is the goal of religion. And it is in your core. Breaking from the childish responses while trying to intellectually figure out life is hard. Good news? Many have done it before.
 
Muddy Creek said:
Brainwashed by religion when you are young is the goal of religion. And it is in your core. Breaking from the childish responses while trying to intellectually figure out life is hard. Good news? Many have done it before.
Click to expand...

The same could be said for being raised ardently atheistic.

One ought to seek understanding. The truth. Clinging ardently to one side or the other doesn't help.

Looking at an issue from many different viewpoints allows for even greater understanding.
 
Wake said:
The same could be said for being raised ardently atheistic.

One ought to seek understanding. The truth. Clinging ardently to one side or the other doesn't help.

Looking at an issue from many different viewpoints allows for even greater understanding.
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I have no problem with that.
 
Peter King said:
your god might dislike gays but the government should not discriminate against gays because of their sexual orientation. Churches are allowed to refuse to wed gays but a government should not do so. They should allow judges and others to marry people who are gay to give them the same protection and rights that are given by law to straight couples.
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Why should married people, straight or gay, get additional protections and rights then everyone else?

I really just don't understand the purpose of providing separate rules for separate groups.
 
Donahue said:
Why should married people, straight or gay, get additional protections and rights then everyone else?

I really just don't understand the purpose of providing separate rules for separate groups.
Click to expand...

Probably to encourage monogamy, which from a technical standpoint could be argued stops the spread of disease, but serial monogamy as accepted in our society couldn't be too good at that, though I have not read any studies that say one way or the other.

I do think there is something worthwhile to encourage commitments and compromise into a person's character, however while I have absolutely no issue with the government trying to make us better people through incentives, most people I think in the US see that as going too far. As it stands there is also little that binds you in marriage to force any sort of commitment, a divorce isnt the worse thing that could happen to you.
 
Donahue said:
Why should married people, straight or gay, get additional protections and rights then everyone else?

I really just don't understand the purpose of providing separate rules for separate groups.
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I´m sorry, but they just do. When 2 unmarried people live together and one gets injured and decisions about their treatment need to be made then it is up to the family to decide that, even if someone has been living together with a gay-straight partner for 10 or 20 years.
 
Peter King said:
I´m sorry, but they just do. When 2 unmarried people live together and one gets injured and decisions about their treatment need to be made then it is up to the family to decide that, even if someone has been living together with a gay-straight partner for 10 or 20 years.
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I don't know much about the Dutch legal system but anyone can designate another to be responsible for medical decisions here.

Marriage comes with tax and inheritance benefits but I don't see any real reason for it. More to the point, I just don't see how it's wrong to discriminate against gays but not heterosexuals who aren't married.
 
hikari said:
Probably to encourage monogamy, which from a technical standpoint could be argued stops the spread of disease, but serial monogamy as accepted in our society couldn't be too good at that, though I have not read any studies that say one way or the other.

I do think there is something worthwhile to encourage commitments and compromise into a person's character, however while I have absolutely no issue with the government trying to make us better people through incentives, most people I think in the US see that as going too far. As it stands there is also little that binds you in marriage to force any sort of commitment, a divorce isnt the worse thing that could happen to you.
Click to expand...

I'm a big proponent of people making a life long commitment and blame the deterioration of the U.S. family structure for a lot of the problems we have in this country but people are no longer making that life long commitment.
 
Donahue said:
I don't know much about the Dutch legal system but anyone can designate another to be responsible for medical decisions here.

Marriage comes with tax and inheritance benefits but I don't see any real reason for it. More to the point, I just don't see how it's wrong to discriminate against gays but not heterosexuals who aren't married.
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I know, but it would be much easier if 2 men or 2 women would just be allowed to married.
 
Peter King said:
I know, but it would be much easier if 2 men or 2 women would just be allowed to married.
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I don't see how that could possibly be easier than just extending the exact same rights to everyone.
 
If what you want is to be free from religion, why are you spending time in a forum dedicated to religious discussion?

Muddy Creek said:
I respect your right to your religious freedom to believe what you want so long as it does not interfere with my right to NOT believe in religion.
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I said it before in another thread, but these are my two cents:

My religion says that homosexual actions are wrong, partners of the same sex are not allowed to marry. It's one of my religion's stances I don't understand at all. But I respect my religion, which means I will not engage in homosexual acts (which is pretty simple for me, as I have no such desire anyway).

But I believe religion should be a private matter and the state should remain neutral on religion. When I believe homosexuality is wrong, that's fine, then I just don't do it. But I have no right to run around forcing my morals on others. I don't want atheists to ban my religious practizes either, I don't want them to tell me whom I am allowed to marry, so I just return the favor and don't tell them what they are supposed to do.

The teachings of my religion are only binding for other members of my faith, and while I'd appreciate more people joining it, I won't force it on anybody. Nobody who wants a gay marriage is forced into my faith.

I believe my religion is the truth, but I am well aware I could be wrong. If it was different, it wouldn't be called "belief" but "knowledge". It's up to God to judge us anyway, in the end.
 
Muddy Creek said:
It would be hard to do that anyway Check out these contradictions, by no means ALL of them. What are you supposed to believe in a bunch of writings about oral history during mythology times by hundred of different authors spanning over 2000 and the last group written 70 years after the death of some guy they name Jesus who has a life EXACTLY like that of Horus of Egypt who lived 600 years earlier and was a well known mythological figure during the time?

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
Click to expand...

Your copy/paste skills appear to be superb. If you're going to use someone else's hard work and research, you should at least be honest enough to give them the credit. This list comes directly from:
Biblical Contradictions

There are also umpteen sites which answer each of these contradictions, but I won't bore the readers with such.
Everyone here has access to Google you know. :shrug:
 
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