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Catholic Church: "Pay us, or go to hell."

Guy Incognito said:
I agree, it is incredibly ****ed up for government to coerce churches into paying taxes in the first place, and then to stick its nose into the internal affairs of a church in dealing with renunciants. Governments have no business extorting taxes from churches or telling churches how to treat their members.
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9 pages later, and you still haven't understood a single word of what's happening.

Not a CENT is given to the government from religion. The government is not coercing churches to pay taxes. The TAXES are 100% going to THE CHURCH, and the entire existence of said taxes is decided 100% by the churches.

Stop being a child.
 
CCC 2043
The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his abilities.87
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Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

That's all that I could find in the Catechism, canon law in general just reminds the faithful of their obligations to help with the needs of the Church (including) monetary. I don't know about the rest of you but I have no qualms with that, it makes sense that a faithful member of a church or any organization would feel obliged to help with the upkeep of said Church/organization right? So for a Church that is supposedly completely self involved and money hungry their more "official" doctrine doesn't make much of an effort to express a need for people to start handing over their cash.

I don't know what the deal is in Germany but I know that I never contributed anything more than pocket change once in a while and I was still allowed to take part in the Church and her sacraments. The Catholic Church is very large and encompasses how many nations? How many cultures? How many people? Now I'm not condoning whatever is going on in Germany but come on, if you want to hate on the Church as a whole you're going to have to look at it in its entirety.

So in summation, and in response to the title of this thread the Catholic Church does not demand that it's members pay them or go to hell.
 
MaggieD said:
I'd be willing to change that word -- to "a disgrace."
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The words "joke" and "disgrace" are not the words I would use to describe a 2000 year old Church or its cultural/historical influence on the world.

To each their own though I suppose.
 
Monserrat said:
The words "joke" and "disgrace" are not the words I would use to describe a 2000 year old Church or its cultural/historical influence on the world.

To each their own though I suppose.
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The recent history of the RCC is a complete disgrace no matter how the pie is sliced.
They should be ashamed of how the institution of the church has become more important (to them) than the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Yes, disgraceful behavior works for me.
 
Monserrat said:
The words "joke" and "disgrace" are not the words I would use to describe a 2000 year old Church or its cultural/historical influence on the world.
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Is that the half you believe? Or the half you don't?
 
Guy Incognito said:
Nonsense. Do you blame the victim for getting robbed or the robber? It is the government extorting money from its people and their church. THAT is what is shameful.
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Where is the government getting money from the church? Why don't all churches in Germany levy taxes? And why did the pope approve of the German government excommunicating people?
 
Different aspects of the Catholic Church throughout her 2000 year history have been horrifying and also at times enlightening. Yes there are things in her recent history (among some of her members) that would make anyone cringe but what would you expect to find in a very large religious group made up of literally over 1 billion people? That makes over 1 billion possibilities for bad influences on the Church but at the same time it makes over 1 billion possibilities for good.

In any case this thread seems to be full of people analyzing the Church in Germany and then claiming that the entire Church (a religion made up of over 1 billion members) is in it only for the money or self interest. Her creed says otherwise. So unless anyone can prove that the Catholic church as a whole teaches that you need to fork over your money to the Church or go to hell than I think it's safe to say that the Catholic Church does not espouse that belief.
 
@ Monserrat

Ironically, this mirrors the sermon that I heard tonight at Mass.
Our Priest indicated that the local Kiwanis and several other organizations dropped members who did not participate.
He also referenced attendance causing loss of employment.
He noted that the Church did not do this, either for attendance nor contributions.

The only variance that I have seen is for assistance for Catholic school tuition.
That does stipulate that you must be a contributing and involved member of the Parish to receive the stipend.
 
MaggieD said:
Is that the half you believe? Or the half you don't?
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lol. That was a good response. I put that in my signature because I don't know what I believe in regards to a lot of things especially politics and who should be running my country (why I came to this site).

I do agree with what I said though, to each their own.
 
spud_meister said:
Where is the government getting money from the church? Why don't all churches in Germany levy taxes? And why did the pope approve of the German government excommunicating people?
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Is this sarcasm?
 
Guy Incognito said:
Is this sarcasm?
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Well, you made the claim that the government is extorting money from people and the church. Therefore, you have to prove that the government is getting money from this, and not just passing on the collected money to the church. Then you said the government is telling the church how to deal with renunciants, so I can only presume, going on your comment and the content of the OP, that you believe the pope has told the government to excommunicate people.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
The pope recently ok'ed a recent maneuver by the catholic church of germany to exclude persons who do not pay the church tax. The church tax in Germany can be up to 8-9% of your income. Officially: "Pay us or you're no longer a catholic."

As an agnostic I find it exceptionally deplorable that the church is still using religion to coerce their members to pay them. With 5 billion in income, and a CEO in a royal palace, it seems more to me like a business than a religion.

Catholics to exclude church tax dodgers - The Local
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People who renounce the faith (declare themselves to not be Catholic) are denied the rights of Catholics.

Of course if a person maintained their Catholic identification but still refused to pay, they would not be subject to canonical censure.
 
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