Ask a Catholic

rocket88 said:

I'm sorry if you thought I was doing that. I didn't mean to.

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No worries!

Pinkie said:

Lovely, but this isn't what I was taught. Everyone who wasn't a Catholic, every Catholic who died with a mortal sin on his soul and all unbaptized babies were NOT going to heaven.

I'd like to think the RCC has opened itself to the possibility that a person can be rewarded with heaven if they aren't Catholic, but I also think such a drastic change in Church dogma would have made the news.

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There was no change because the Catholic Church never taught that only Catholics or go to heaven or that unbaptize babies cannot go to heaven. The Catholic position is that only God can judge these things, and we can only trust in his infinite mercy. It has always been permissible to believe that everyone can ultimately be save. Not that everyone necessarily will go to heaven, that is the heresy of Origenism. But it is logically possible, and nobody KNOWS to say otherwise.

Pinkie said:

Yes, true.



This is just not my experience, and I know of no -- zip, zero, nada -- parochial school that ever taught creationsim.



No idea; they might. But what does astronomy have to do with evolution?

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What many people don't realize is that there are two types of evolution Natural and Physical. The Physical part has to do mainly with the structure, development and age of the cosmos. Does that help?

Pinkie said:

The Catholic Bible has no Book of Phillip or of Mary Magdelene. I doubt many Protestant Bibles do, either.

You have clearly given your spirituality much deep thought, wolfman, but this thread is about RCC dogma.

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Yes I know what the thread is. However the gospels I mentioned have been studied by scholars and theologians from almost all Christian faiths including the Catholics ever since they were discovered so the commnet applies

Guy Incognito said:

There was no change because the Catholic Church never taught that only Catholics or go to heaven or that unbaptize babies cannot go to heaven. The Catholic position is that only God can judge these things, and we can only trust in his infinite mercy. It has always been permissible to believe that everyone can ultimately be save. Not that everyone necessarily will go to heaven, that is the heresy of Origenism. But it is logically possible, and nobody KNOWS to say otherwise.

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This was the basis of my earlier post about purgatory, limbo and the rest. My head pastor was certifiable but he never once said that unbaptized babies could not go to heaven eventually (limbo) and that unconfessed Catholics could not (purgatory) whether they ate meat or not. My personal experience with this is that a friend of my moms had a stillbirth and she was assured by our monsignour that her child would see God. This was done in church before the altar. I doubt he was going to lie in that situation.

Guy Incognito said:

There was no change because the Catholic Church never taught that only Catholics or go to heaven or that unbaptize babies cannot go to heaven. The Catholic position is that only God can judge these things, and we can only trust in his infinite mercy. It has always been permissible to believe that everyone can ultimately be save. Not that everyone necessarily will go to heaven, that is the heresy of Origenism. But it is logically possible, and nobody KNOWS to say otherwise.

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Again, that's not what I was taught but if true, this is certainly progress.

Pinkie said:

Again, that's not what I was taught but if true, this is certainly progress.

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Well it could be that you were taught wrong, but it seems to me likely that you were taught with a more negative spin on the same underlying facts. But it really isnt "progress" since nothing has changed, it has always been that way. Nobody has ever been able to say definitively what happens to unbaptized innocents, but it has always been recognized that God may baptize "by grace." likewise it has always been impossible to tell who is in hell, since only God can know when an actual mortal sin has taken place.

Where it gets mixed up is in the fact that we can know THEORETICALLY what a mortal sin is, but since human beings will never be able to know all the facts of a particular sin, nobody but God (not even the sinner himself) can know for sure if a sin is mortal.

Guy Incognito said:

Well it could be that you were taught wrong, but it seems to me likely that you were taught with a more negative spin on the same underlying facts. But it really isnt "progress" since nothing has changed, it has always been that way. Nobody has ever been able to say definitively what happens to unbaptized innocents, but it has always been recognized that God may baptize "by grace." likewise it has always been impossible to tell who is in hell, since only God can know when an actual mortal sin has taken place.

Where it gets mixed up is in the fact that we can know THEORETICALLY what a mortal sin is, but since human beings will never be able to know all the facts of a particular sin, nobody but God (not even the sinner himself) can know for sure if a sin is mortal.

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None of this comports with my recollection of the Baltimore Catechism, especially the part about anyone who isn't RCC getting into heaven.

What do you take the "One Holy, Catholic and Apostalic Church" to mean, then?

Pinkie said:

None of this comports with my recollection of the Baltimore Catechism, especially the part about anyone who isn't RCC getting into heaven.

What do you take the "One Holy, Catholic and Apostalic Church" to mean, then?

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It's true, absolutely. Christ only established one Church. There is only one Truth.

I cut my teeth on the Baltimore Catechism myself. All this stuff is in there. Only Goe can judge a person, no human being is capable of knowing who is in hell or if a sin is mortal.

Guy Incognito said:

It's true, absolutely. Christ only established one Church. There is only one Truth.

I cut my teeth on the Baltimore Catechism myself. All this stuff is in there. Only Goe can judge a person, no human being is capable of knowing who is in hell or if a sin is mortal.

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Then how do you explain plenary indulgences?

Pinkie said:

Then how do you explain plenary indulgences?

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To the extent that there were abuses of indulgences in the Middle Ages, that is a failing of Church leadership. Nothing wrong with indulgences in and of themselves.

Indulgences, btw, do not grant forgiveness from God, only earthly forgiveness.

Church/ related documents on or regarding evolution:


Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII

36. For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However, this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faith.[11]

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Humani Generis

CCC:

159 Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth."37 "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. the humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."38

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Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

283 The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers. With Solomon they can say: "It is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, to know the structure of the world and the activity of the elements. . . for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me."121

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Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText


So basically evolution does not contradict the word of God, spoken by Pope PiusXII in so many words in 1950 and then more or less in the catechism by saying that science cannot ever truly conflict with faith. It's again reiterated when it says science has enriched our knowledge "of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man."






I also saw some questions regarding Salvation to non-Catholics, here's part of what the Church says:

The lumen gentium:

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.

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Dogmatic Constitution on the Church - Lumen Gentium

CCC:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

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Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

If you check out the link you can read more about the Church's position regarding salvation and non-Catholics and also non-Christians. Some of you seem to be believe that the church's teaching regarding both evolution and salvation of non-catholics is much more strict and restrictive than it actually is. I'm not sure what you were taught but the Church I grew up with reflects the sentiments I quoted above. Anyway I thought you might be interested to read more. The CCC teaching and what what was written in the Lumen Gentium were something I've looked into before but what I read about Pope Pius XII was new and interesting to me (I just came across it when I was trying to remember where in the lumen gentium and ccc I needed to look. I didn't know that way back when (1950) he had such a positive outlook on science especially on the evolution of the physical bodies of human beings.

Pinkie

I would like your thoughts on something. If you remember I mentioned the concepts of Limbo and Purgatory. Our church back in the sixties was a conservative fiefdom run by meglomanic anit semite. After Vatican two he refused to allow HIS nuns to change to the new habits until the cities monsignor and the bishop told him to conform or face sanction.

If you remember sanction was dismissal from your post and either sent to a retreat permanently or given menial duties in the diocese. He of course relented. I mention this only to give you an idea of the type of head pastor we had.

So, During this time our church (individual) preached that if a baby died without baptism it went to limbo for a time determined by God and then eventually "restored to glory", which everyone interpreted as meaning goes to heaven.

If you committed certain sins which were more or less venial in nature and died before you confessed them you would more than likely be sent to purgatory and then serve a sentence but with the promise of salvation before God.

Does any of this sound familiar?

Guy,
So how many angels really can dance on the head of a pin?

Guy Incognito said:

I have noticed in a lot of threads that many people have some deep misconceptions about the Catholic Church. I would like to fix that as best I can.

So I invite anyone who has a question about Catholicism to politely pose them here. I will try to give you an answer as clearly as possible.

Note: I am not acting in an official capacity on behalf of the Church, just giving my understanding of Church teaching.

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Hello Guy Incognito,

Firstly I wanted to ask, if you were not raised or baptised a Catholic, do the Catholics accept people from adulthood like the born again Christians?

Secondly, has being a Catholic benefited your life or has it had negative consequences?

Also to what extent does Rome, have a say in how you are guided in your teaching and actions?

Lastly, are there different branches of Catholicism? With different view points/interpretations? I.E would the Scottish Catholic be different from the American Catholic?
Do you have different political leanings and how much does your faith influence your political outview?

Thanks

Joe

Joechilli said:

Hello Guy Incognito,

Firstly I wanted to ask, if you were not raised or baptised a Catholic, do the Catholics accept people from adulthood like the born again Christians?

Secondly, has being a Catholic benefited your life or has it had negative consequences?

Also to what extent does Rome, have a say in how you are guided in your teaching and actions?

Lastly, are there different branches of Catholicism? With different view points/interpretations? I.E would the Scottish Catholic be different from the American Catholic?
Do you have different political leanings and how much does your faith influence your political outview?

Thanks

Joe

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I was born and raised Catholic and left when I was 14, but I can answer these questions.

To you first question - Yes. My father was born Protestant and converted. It happens all the time, but you must accept the Catholic Church as yours without reservation.

Second I will let Guy answer this for himself but for me it was almost completely negative. No benefits at all.

Third question - In a prefect world Romes edicts are to be followed. contrary to popular opinion the Church has made it a habit to try and stay out of politics. How you are a catholic wish to follow them in your own life and feelings and faith are pretty much up to you. The American Catholic Church has frequently disagreed with the Holy See and there has been alot of bad blood. But Rome is still Rome.

Fourth. Yes there are many varieties of Catholic. Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Chinese, as far as differences I don't really know.

Ikari said:

It was under my impression that the Catholic Church no longer believed in LITERAL transubstantiation. True or False, Guy?

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False .