"Jesus said to them, 'my wife'..."

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - A newly revealed, centuries-old papyrus fragment suggests that some early Christians might have believed Jesus was married. The fragment, written in Coptic, a language used by Egyptian Christians, says in part, "Jesus said to them, 'My wife ..." Harvard Divinity School Professor Karen King announced the findings of the 1 1/2- by 3-inch honey-colored fragment on Tuesday in Rome at the International Association for Coptic Studies.

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Dan Brown was right.

Neomalthusian said:

[h=1]Newly revealed Coptic fragment has Jesus making reference to 'my wife'[/h]

Dan Brown was right.

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Brown was, is, and always will be a crackpot conspiracy theorists.

Paleocon said:

Brown was, is, and always will be a crackpot conspiracy theorists.

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You should call yourself Paleontologist, for digging up this fossil of a thread.

Neomalthusian said:

You should call yourself Paleontologist, for digging up this fossil of a thread.

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Funny.

Neomalthusian said:

[h=1]Newly revealed Coptic fragment has Jesus making reference to 'my wife'[/h]

Dan Brown was right.

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Read when this fragment was dated too and when the origional writing was thought to be, it has nothing to do With the historical Jesus or even first Century christianity or second Century.

Neomalthusian said:

[h=1]Newly revealed Coptic fragment has Jesus making reference to 'my wife'[/h]

Dan Brown was right.

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He's always referred to the Church as His bride.

I think if Jesus indeed had a wife, there would be a definite mention of her. After all, being a wife of Jesus would put the wife in a position of being exemplary of what a wife is supposed to be.

Marriage is an established institution by God, therefore the role of the wife of Jesus will hold some importance in conveying the importance of marriage. She wouldn't be a secret.

tosca1 said:

He's always referred to the Church as His bride.

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Where does Jesus do that? John 3:29 it is a metaphor by John the Baptist about Jesus in his role as messiah. Not Jesus saying that.

I think if Jesus indeed had a wife, there would be a definite mention of her. After all, being a wife of Jesus would put the wife in a position of being exemplary of what a wife is supposed to be.

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Maybe because 1st century Judaism saw a huge separation of the roles of women and men and the edits might have been in place to role back the role of the women in the Jesus narrative. Clearly that is seen with the way that the Church changed the story of Mary Magdaline (sp?) but that is not here or there.

Marriage is an established institution by God,

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Questionable statement as many centuries of marriages existed before the Christian story is told and in cultures that didn't know about the Jewish God so.

therefore the role of the wife of Jesus will hold some importance in conveying the importance of marriage.

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Maybe but the editors of Paul did not want a role of women in the church....just like the disappearance of the important women thinkers and leaders in ancient Judaism. Sexism trumps.

She wouldn't be a secret.

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You can't know that.


Oh and Dan Brown used a made up story to write a made up novel and pretended to think he knew stuff. His historical things in that piece of trash book are highly inaccurate and based on wild conspiracy theories. He was a huckster who made a fortune on ignorance.

Sababa said:

Where does Jesus do that? John 3:29 it is a metaphor by John the Baptist about Jesus in his role as messiah. Not Jesus saying that.

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Revelation 19:7-9 - Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Ephesians 5:25-27 - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Revelation 21:2 - And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

John 3:29 - He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Revelation 21:9 - And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

2 Corinthians 11:2 - For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


Matthew 25:1-46 - Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Romans 7:4 - Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

tosca1 said:

Revelation 19:7-9 - Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Ephesians 5:25-27 - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Revelation 21:2 - And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

John 3:29 - He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Revelation 21:9 - And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

2 Corinthians 11:2 - For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


Matthew 25:1-46 - Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Romans 7:4 - Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

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Jesus didn't say any of those things....others did....that was my point.

Except for the Matthew reference which was the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. Again this is not Jesus calling the Church his bride. Jesus didn't do that that was a later interpretation he was talking about the people in general waiting and using allegory. Now, as for the wise and foolish virgins...are you suggesting that Jesus is going to marry 5 wives?

Images of God as bride are deeply rooted in Jewish culture and later the Shabbat as bride coming to the Jewish people (the groom) are common. That does not stop Rabbis from marrying. It is a silly argument.

Is this one of those 'we have to justify gay marriage any way we can' threads?

Legalized gay marriage was brought forth by aristocrats, and ideologues (judges). Gay individuals don't need marriage to have all the rights and responsiblilites of marriage, however. Gay marriage is the proverbial bull in the china shop.

Sababa said:

Maybe because 1st century Judaism saw a huge separation of the roles of women and men and the edits might have been in place to role back the role of the women in the Jesus narrative. Clearly that is seen with the way that the Church changed the story of Mary Magdaline (sp?) but that is not here or there.

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You say "they edited this" and "they edit that" and pretty soon you have a whole new scripture of your own making, obedient to your own ideological whims.

Maybe but the editors of Paul did not want a role of women in the church....just like the disappearance of the important women thinkers and leaders in ancient Judaism. Sexism trumps.

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Speculation and feminist claptrap.

LowDown said:

You say "they edited this" and "they edit that" and pretty soon you have a whole new scripture of your own making, obedient to your own ideological whims.

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That is exactly what happened when the Christian Bible was canonized. Are you arguing it wasn't?

Speculation and feminist claptrap.

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Actually I use to know a pretty serious Paul scholar who made this claim. You can look up C. K. Robertson....he might help.

The point is that it is possible that the parchment is real but more likely it is a fake. But you notion that the Church would have made a big deal out of a married Jesus is silly.

Sababa said:

Jesus didn't say any of those things....others did....that was my point.

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Before Jesus Christ came to us, God spoke through the Old Testament prophets. Jesus spoke what God wanted Him to say.

The Apostles were personally chosen by Jesus to spread His teachings.
The teachings came from God, given to the Apostles through the Holy Spirit.
The Authority of Apostles' teachings came from God.



Matthew 10
19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

John 14
24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

2 Tim 3
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Acts 1
5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Acts 2
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost
2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.
33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.


If we do not believe what the Apostles had written, then how can we even know what Jesus taught Himself?

Except for the Matthew reference which was the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. Again this is not Jesus calling the Church his bride. Jesus didn't do that that was a later interpretation he was talking about the people in general waiting and using allegory. Now, as for the wise and foolish virgins...are you suggesting that Jesus is going to marry 5 wives?

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Of course, Jesus spoke in metaphor pertaining to the foolish virgins. The previous verses given above though, shows that Christ had referred or likened His Church for His bride.

Therefore, what that description they'd deciphered that says, "my wife," would most likely be the same metaphor He used in His teachings - which referred to His Church.

The author of Da Vinci Code had simply used it to sensationalize his book! And it worked! It even became a movie. And who's singing and dancing all the way to the bank?

Images of God as bride are deeply rooted in Jewish culture and later the Shabbat as bride coming to the Jewish people (the groom) are common.

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There you go! Jesus was a Jew, and of course He grew up and lived in a Jewish culture. So, it makes a lot of sense that His metaphors for teachings will be something that they can relate to. Who were the people He's trying to reach out to? The Jews.

That does not stop Rabbis from marrying. It is a silly argument.

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I didn't say anything about stopping anyone from marrying, so I don't know how you came to that. You must've confused me with another member.

Sababa said:

That is exactly what happened when the Christian Bible was canonized. Are you arguing it wasn't?

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At this point you have to have faith that the saints who wrote and assembled the Biblical Canon were inspired by God and got it right. Without faith all you have is a mish mash of suspicion and doubt.

How did St Peter's get left out?