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What should Gay Christians do?

Homosexuality seems to be alluded to in the records (translations I've seen) of Paul, implicitly as an error of one's ways. I don't remember Jesus speaking about it in the Gospels.
 
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TheDemSocialist said:
Jesus also promoted that you give all your possessions away, and pay your taxes.
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And so a true, irrelevant to what I was responding to has what value? Do you want to talk about charity now?
 
24107 said:
They should stop being homosexual's, because as you know; in christianity it's a forbidden sin. And if you do not cease homosexual activities you are not really a Christian. :alert
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Really? Are you overweight? Do you lie sometimes? Do you speed while driving? Have you ever not come to a complete stop at a stop sign? If you do any of those more than once, you're not really a Christian. At least, that's according to your logic. And this is coming from a fellow Christian. Get off your highhorse. You're a sinner just like the rest of us and you can go to hell for your sins just as fast as a homosexual can. Homosexuals should deal with their sin just like an alcoholic, a drug addict, an internet porn addict, someone who lies all the time, heck even a heterosexual who is having sex outside of marriage. Pray, ask God to give them strength to resist their temptation, read God's word and ask Him to reveal His guidance in His word, and surround themselves with other Christians that will support and not judge. Homosexuality isn't some special sin that is worse than all others. If a homosexual came up to me in my church and asked me to pray for them, to be there for them, I would embrace them with open arms and ensure I call them everyday to help them out. Not push them away and say "Ewww, a queer."
 
MarineTpartier said:
Really? Are you overweight? Do you lie sometimes? Do you speed while driving? Have you ever not come to a complete stop at a stop sign? If you do any of those more than once, you're not really a Christian. At least, that's according to your logic. And this is coming from a fellow Christian. Get off your highhorse. You're a sinner just like the rest of us and you can go to hell for your sins just as fast as a homosexual can. Homosexuals should deal with their sin just like an alcoholic, a drug addict, an internet porn addict, someone who lies all the time, heck even a heterosexual who is having sex outside of marriage. Pray, ask God to give them strength to resist their temptation, read God's word and ask Him to reveal His guidance in His word, and surround themselves with other Christians that will support and not judge. Homosexuality isn't some special sin that is worse than all others. If a homosexual came up to me in my church and asked me to pray for them, to be there for them, I would embrace them with open arms and ensure I call them everyday to help them out. Not push them away and say "Ewww, a queer."
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Very good point here, of course. Practicing homosexuals are not unique in being sinners. All of us do things that are wrong, from time to time. All of us are equally obligated to try to refrain from doing evil, and, on those occasions when we do evil, to repent.

However, we do not see very much of a movement that openly tries to put forth the idea that abuse of alcohol or drugs, pornography, or adultery are perfectly normal and proper, and that only a narrow-minded bigot could think there is anything wrong with these behaviors. Homosexuality is one of very few evils that has such a movement behind it, that has gained so much traction.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Very good point here, of course. Practicing homosexuals are not unique in being sinners. All of us do things that are wrong, from time to time. All of us are equally obligated to try to refrain from doing evil, and, on those occasions when we do evil, to repent.

However, we do not see very much of a movement that openly tries to put forth the idea that abuse of alcohol or drugs, pornography, or adultery are perfectly normal and proper, and that only a narrow-minded bigot could think there is anything wrong with these behaviors. Homosexuality is one of very few evils that has such a movement behind it, that has gained so much traction.
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Perhaps because it isn't evil.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
However, we do not see very much of a movement that openly tries to put forth the idea that abuse of alcohol or drugs, pornography, or adultery are perfectly normal and proper,
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Yes we do. It's called society.
 
KevinN said:
Homosexuality seems to be alluded to in the records (translations I've seen) of Paul, implicitly as an error of one's ways. I don't remember Jesus speaking about it in the Gospels.
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He didn't but Jesus' words shouldn't be treated like the U.S. Constitution, where those things not specifically mentioned as sins are not sins. There are more than enough references in the Bible Old Testament and New to prove that homosexuality is considered sinful by Christians. If you don't agree, that's fine, but you cannot say the Bible says nothing about it. And please spare me the linguistic hoops that critics jump through to say the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality...it's as a bad as the new earth creationist nonsense.
 
ChuckBerry said:
He didn't but Jesus' words shouldn't be treated like the U.S. Constitution, where those things not specifically mentioned as sins are not sins. There are more than enough references in the Bible Old Testament and New to prove that homosexuality is considered sinful by Christians. If you don't agree, that's fine, but you cannot say the Bible says nothing about it. And please spare me the linguistic hoops that critics jump through to say the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality...it's as a bad as the new earth creationist nonsense.
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I think people that try to say that the Bible says homosexuality is sinful are the ones jumping through hoops, relying on bad translations, and not understanding different cultural thoughts.
 
Your Star said:
I think people that try to say that the Bible says homosexuality is sinful are the ones jumping through hoops, relying on bad translations, and not understanding different cultural thoughts.
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I will bring forth the argument I always do on this. If God intended homosexuality to be okay, marriage would have been referred to in a gender neutral manner. As it is, the Bible NEVER speaks of marriage in a gender neutral manner. Its always mentioned as man and woman. You and I go round and round on this all the time, so I guess this is more for everyone else on this thread than you.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
However, we do not see very much of a movement that openly tries to put forth the idea that abuse of alcohol or drugs, pornography, or adultery are perfectly normal and proper, and that only a narrow-minded bigot could think there is anything wrong with these behaviors. Homosexuality is one of very few evils that has such a movement behind it, that has gained so much traction.
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:lol: Lying, blaspheming and fornicating are all accepted practices in US culture, and they're all condemned in the bible far more often than homosexuality. Personally, I don't think people who eat shellfish should be allowed to marry.
 
MarineTpartier said:
I will bring forth the argument I always do on this. If God intended homosexuality to be okay, marriage would have been referred to in a gender neutral manner. As it is, the Bible NEVER speaks of marriage in a gender neutral manner. Its always mentioned as man and woman. You and I go round and round on this all the time, so I guess this is more for everyone else on this thread than you.
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Marriage was only between men, and women back then, it wouldn't be mentioned in gender neutral terms because society was much different back then. People didn't have a choice who they got married too. Romantic love in which we understand it was non-existent. And most of the rules concerning sexual activity, (such as staying a virgin until married) was in order to keep the "product" good so to speak, to make sure that they knew who's baby it was, and that the father could get a good price for his daughter.

Simply stating that marriage back then was only between a man, and a woman, and that is how the writers of the Bible described it in no way states that homosexuality is sinful.
 
The Bible is unambiguous about condemning homosexuality, any charges to the opposite are nonsense, and even mere common sense will tell you that using the sexual function of the human body in a non-fruitful way is pointless at a minimum. A males ejaculatory action is designed to inseminate a female for the purpose of creating children. Too, the sexual act is meant to spiritually bond man and woman. Two men or two women having sex perverts the very purpose of sex since it is by its very nature unfruitful, and thus cannot serve the purpose of a spiritual bond either. As goes the body, so goes the soul.

Sure, people can have sex "just for fun", even straight people can have intentionally unfruitful sex (birth control, anal, masturbation, etc.) or without intention of spiritual bond (outside of marriage). Have at it. But don't pretend that the Bible doesn't condemn it. It does.

It would be more honest to simply reject Christianity outright than make up things about it that aren't true.
 
Your Star said:
Marriage was only between men, and women back then, it wouldn't be mentioned in gender neutral terms because society was much different back then. People didn't have a choice who they got married too. Romantic love in which we understand it was non-existent. And most of the rules concerning sexual activity, (such as staying a virgin until married) was in order to keep the "product" good so to speak, to make sure that they knew who's baby it was, and that the father could get a good price for his daughter.

Simply stating that marriage back then was only between a man, and a woman, and that is how the writers of the Bible described it in no way states that homosexuality is sinful.
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Homosexuality is not something that is new to the world Star. You can find references to it as far back as Genesis in the Bible. God, as He is in all things, was WELL aware of homosexuality. In fact, it didn't take long for human beings to start experimenting with it and other sexual sin. God, from the beginning, spelled out that marriage was between a man and woman. He continued to do that throughout the Bible.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Homosexuality is not something that is new to the world Star. You can find references to it as far back as Genesis in the Bible. God, as He is in all things, was WELL aware of homosexuality. In fact, it didn't take long for human beings to start experimenting with it and other sexual sin. God, from the beginning, spelled out that marriage was between a man and woman. He continued to do that throughout the Bible.
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Homosexuality as we know it today, as in people of the same sex coming together and forming long term relationships that aren't much different from heterosexual relationships just did not happen back then.

Homosexuality to them was mostly in the form of temple prostitution, child molestation, rituals to other gods, etc. So applying those passages to today's culture is pushing the limits of logical thought.
 
Your Star said:
Homosexuality as we know it today, as in people of the same sex coming together and forming long term relationships that aren't much different from heterosexual relationships just did not happen back then.

Homosexuality to them was mostly in the form of temple prostitution, child molestation, rituals to other gods, etc. So applying those passages to today's culture is pushing the limits of logical thought.
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I will cede that the Bible does not mention long term relationships between homosexuals. However, neither of us lived during those times. I would find it hard to believe that cities such as Sodom and Gomorrah, that were so accepting of homosexuality, didn't have any gay couples in them.
 
MarineTpartier said:
I will cede that the Bible does not mention long term relationships between homosexuals. However, neither of us lived during those times. I would find it hard to believe that cities such as Sodom and Gomorrah, that were so accepting of homosexuality, didn't have any gay couples in them.
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Not the relationships that we see today. Since marriages were mostly arranged there's not much room for any kind of relationship outside of the one picked for you.
 
Your Star said:
Not the relationships that we see today. Since marriages were mostly arranged there's not much room for any kind of relationship outside of the one picked for you.
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Like today, not everyone was a Christian back then. By solely reading the Bible, one can get a skewed view of how the world was as a whole during that time frame. Yes, the Christian (Israeli) culture acted in this manner. But many other cultures did not. Arranged marriages were mainly an Israeli and Egyptian practice. There were progressives back then just like there are now. Unlike now, a progressive then was someone who believed in something as radical as **gasp** marriage that wasn't pre-arranged.
 
God creates people. God makes some of them gay. God punishes those people for being the way he created them. This is a mistake that should not come from a supposedly perfect being. If you take the position that god is just, perfect, and benevolent, then it stands to reason that such a creature could not and would not subject people to that kind of situation. If god is perfect, then Christianity, Judaism, and presumably Islam must be wrong about homosexuality.
 
MarineTpartier said:
I will cede that the Bible does not mention long term relationships between homosexuals. However, neither of us lived during those times. I would find it hard to believe that cities such as Sodom and Gomorrah, that were so accepting of homosexuality, didn't have any gay couples in them.
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As I recall, the city of Sodom was accepting of rape, not homosexuality.
 
Paschendale said:
God creates people. God makes some of them gay. God punishes those people for being the way he created them. This is a mistake that should not come from a supposedly perfect being. If you take the position that god is just, perfect, and benevolent, then it stands to reason that such a creature could not and would not subject people to that kind of situation. If god is perfect, then Christianity, Judaism, and presumably Islam must be wrong about homosexuality.
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God gives us free agency. The devil tempts us toward evil acts, while God tries to guide us toward good. Some of us are more subject to temptations toward certain evils, than others are.

Homosexuality is no different than adultery, murder, child molestation, stealing, or any other sin. God tells us not to do it. The devil tells us go ahead. Ultimately, the choices are our own, as are the consequences.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Homosexuality is no different than adultery, murder, child molestation, stealing, or any other sin. God tells us not to do it. The devil tells us go ahead. Ultimately, the choices are our own, as are the consequences.
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That is insulting. I really, really wish that Christian people like yourself would think before you type out things like that, because they come across as really dickish. Here is why. There are people harmed by the other behaviors you described as sins, but in and of itself, homosexuality does not harm anyone. It generally occurs between consenting adults, and if they are responsible, and particularly if they have a long term relationship, it is not harmful. It does not create victims like your other examples do. That is why it comes across completely inane to make that kind of comparison.

Even lying creates more victims than homosexuality but you jumped into comparing homosexuality to murder before bringing up telling a fib. My guess is because you would not want to compare your own personal sin of lying to killing someone. And yet for some odd reason, when it comes to an alleged sin like homosexuality which, when practiced responsibility and within a relationship, creates less victims than lying, you are eager to compare it to murder and other such victim creating heinous acts.

Please use your brain and think before you type. You do a great disservice to your religion when you represent it in this manner.

When was the last time a lie you told hurt someone? When was the last time the private sexual activities of a committed, same sex couple hurt someone? Feeling pretty good about casting those stones now?
 
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CriticalThought said:
Bob Blaylock said:
Homosexuality is no different than adultery, murder, child molestation, stealing, or any other sin. God tells us not to do it. The devil tells us go ahead. Ultimately, the choices are our own, as are the consequences.
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That is insulting. I really, really wish that Christian people like yourself would think before you type out things like that, because they come across as really dickish.
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“…wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.” — 1 Nephi 16:2​
 
Bob Blaylock said:
“…wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.” — 1 Nephi 16:2​
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So...instead of responding to my concerns like an adult, your response is to childishly disregard it and simply post a quote without even acknowledging it.

Once again, I think you are doing a great disservice to your religion by how you are representing it.

But meh, it isn't my job to tell you how to represent your religion. Judge a tree by its fruits after all. That is in there as well.
 
CriticalThought said:
Once again, I think you are doing a great disservice to your religion by how you are representing it.

But meh, it isn't my job to tell you how to represent your religion. Judge a tree by its fruits after all. That is in there as well.
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I don't see how.

There are official statements from my religion that do a better job than I do of explaining the principles in an inoffensive way. Diplomacy has never been one of my strengths.

But it seems to me that what you think would constitute •not• doing a disservice to my religion would be for me to tell you that it is entirely OK for you to engage in behavior that I know, and that my religion teaches, is immoral. I am not going to do that, and anyone who does so, and allows himself to be seen as being in any way representative of my religion, would be the one who is doing a disservice thereto.
 
ChuckBerry said:
The Bible is unambiguous about condemning homosexuality, any charges to the opposite are nonsense, and even mere common sense will tell you that using the sexual function of the human body in a non-fruitful way is pointless at a minimum. A males ejaculatory action is designed to inseminate a female for the purpose of creating children. Too, the sexual act is meant to spiritually bond man and woman. Two men or two women having sex perverts the very purpose of sex since it is by its very nature unfruitful, and thus cannot serve the purpose of a spiritual bond either. As goes the body, so goes the soul.

Sure, people can have sex "just for fun", even straight people can have intentionally unfruitful sex (birth control, anal, masturbation, etc.) or without intention of spiritual bond (outside of marriage). Have at it. But don't pretend that the Bible doesn't condemn it. It does.

It would be more honest to simply reject Christianity outright than make up things about it that aren't true.
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I rarely agree with Christian fundamentalists, but his last statement is exactly correct. The Bible does condemn it. Leviticus calls it an abomination and calls for the lovers to be put to death. Leviticus also says that you shall not cut your hair, wear clothing of mixed cloths, it is perfectly ok to rape the bethrothed slave girl (she gets "scourged, the man gets nothing), you are exiled if you eat the fat of the beast, shellfish are also an abomination...


A Gay Christian seems to be an oxymoron to me.
 
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