• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Mass Exodus From the LDS Church

UtahBill said:
most mormons realize that too much has been said about Kolob, by people within the church who seek to undertand the mysteries within scriptures, and have no authority to interpet the scriptures for the rest of the church. IOW, it isn't a common topic of discussion within the church today.....
Click to expand...

It ought to be, don't you think? Mormons suffer the same problem that their fellow UFO religionists in the Church of Scientology do: a reticence about discussing the more 'out there' elements of their theology gives them an aura of secrecy. I mean, Kolob is no more or less insane than Xenu - but they both certainly derive from the same strange American impetus that also gives rise to the belief in ancient astronauts and the like.
 
Moot said:
Perhaps in this case it's called freedom from religion. The ex-Mo's didn't strike me as interested in finding another religion to replace the one they so defiantly left behind. If anything they're likely to be more skeptical of all religions.
Click to expand...

I agree with freedom from religion....
 
American said:
Why do so many of the non-religious seem to spend so much of their time worrying about what the religious do, to the point that they feel compelled to go out and change people's religion by force or other means?
Click to expand...

It's like I've observed several times before: Those who most loudly proclaim their opposition to any form of “bigotry” nearly always turn out to be the worst bigots.
 
Einzige said:
Mormonism operates, essentially, as a form of Scientology-lite, ranging from everything from its cosmology (Kolob) to its insidious social practices - Mormons essentially 'disconnect' from ex-Mormons. Good to see these people taking a stand.
Click to expand...

Einzige said:
It ought to be, don't you think? Mormons suffer the same problem that their fellow UFO religionists in the Church of Scientology do: a reticence about discussing the more 'out there' elements of their theology gives them an aura of secrecy. I mean, Kolob is no more or less insane than Xenu - but they both certainly derive from the same strange American impetus that also gives rise to the belief in ancient astronauts and the like.
Click to expand...

Do you have any clue at all what the name “Kolob” refers to? It sounds to me like you've just heard the name, and are assuming that it refers to some bizarre, sinister, Scientology-like theory and are criticizing us on that basis, without having even the slightest clue what it is you are talking about.
 
Last edited:
Bob Blaylock said:
Do you have any clue at all what the name “Kolob” refers to? It sounds to me like you've just heard the name, and are assuming that it refers to some bizarre, sinister, Scientology-like theory and are criticizing us on that basis, without having even the slightest clue what it is you are talking about.
Click to expand...

From what I can find, it's a star or planet that's closest to the throne of God. This is the first I've ever heard of it, and it has peaked my interest, could you elaborate on what it actually is? I would like to hear a Mormon's perspective on this.
 
Lokiate said:
From what I can find, it's a star or planet that's closest to the throne of God. This is the first I've ever heard of it, and it has peaked my interest, could you elaborate on what it actually is? I would like to hear a Mormon's perspective on this.
Click to expand...

piqued your interest? I am LDS and have never heard anything of substance about it....there has been a lot of supposition and guessing. To my knowledge, it has never been addressed by high authority, but if it has, a source would be nice.

It is most likely another of those things that are mentioned in scriptures, even the bible, where the only available answer is "we don't really know".

I like what one Bishop used to say when asked about such things..."it probably isn't essential to salvation, so don't worry about it". I got similar responses from the Baptist preachers I had as a child...
 
UtahBill said:
piqued your interest?
Click to expand...
Right, long night, no sleep. My bad.

I am LDS and have never heard anything of substance about it....there has been a lot of supposition and guessing. To my knowledge, it has never been addressed by high authority, but if it has, a source would be nice.
Click to expand...
Damn. All I can ever seem to find is that it's a celestial body closest to the realm of Heaven, but nothing more than that, other than it's a "great star". I'm guessing that means it's a very large, bright star.

It is most likely another of those things that are mentioned in scriptures, even the bible, where the only available answer is "we don't really know".

I like what one Bishop used to say when asked about such things..."it probably isn't essential to salvation, so don't worry about it". I got similar responses from the Baptist preachers I had as a child...
Click to expand...
I do thank you. Items dealing with astrology just light my fire. It's a part of the old Occult in me that won't die.
 
Lokiate said:
Right, long night, no sleep. My bad.

Damn. All I can ever seem to find is that it's a celestial body closest to the realm of Heaven, but nothing more than that, other than it's a "great star". I'm guessing that means it's a very large, bright star.


I do thank you. Items dealing with astrology just light my fire. It's a part of the old Occult in me that won't die.
Click to expand...
Kolob is a planet that the Heavenly Father aka God lives on with his spirit wives and children. When Mormon men die, they will each inherit and reside on their own planet with all their spirit wives and make more spirit children that will be sent down to earth to be reborn into earthly bodies.

The two videos I posted above are from a film that is a spoof on Nehor and Kolob, and LDS doctrine. If you are interested, you should check out Joseph Smith's translation of an Egyptian hieroglyph.
 
Last edited:
Moot said:
Kolob is a planet that the Heavenly Father aka God lives on with his spirit wives and children. When Mormon men die, they will each inherit and reside on their own planet with all their spirit wives and make more spirit children that will be sent down to earth to be reborn into earthly bodies.
Click to expand...

No, that isn't what we believe. When you repeat nonsense like this, you just make yourself look very, very, very foolish to anyone who actually has a clue about Mormon beliefs.
 
Moot said:
Kolob is a planet that the Heavenly Father aka God lives on with his spirit wives and children. When Mormon men die, they will each inherit and reside on their own planet with all their spirit wives and make more spirit children that will be sent down to earth to be reborn into earthly bodies.

The two videos I posted above are from a film that is a spoof on Nehor and Kolob, and LDS doctrine. If you are interested, you should check out Joseph Smith's translation of an Egyptian hieroglyph.
Click to expand...

LDS doctrine, as interpreted by detractors?.....if so, hardly unbiased....
 
Moot said:
Kolob is a planet that the Heavenly Father aka God lives on with his spirit wives and children. When Mormon men die, they will each inherit and reside on their own planet with all their spirit wives and make more spirit children that will be sent down to earth to be reborn into earthly bodies.

The two videos I posted above are from a film that is a spoof on Nehor and Kolob, and LDS doctrine. If you are interested, you should check out Joseph Smith's translation of an Egyptian hieroglyph.
Click to expand...

The only sites where I find that description are anti-Mormon sites, which I automatically dismiss.
 
Lokiate said:
The only sites where I find that description are anti-Mormon sites, which I automatically dismiss.
Click to expand...
Well, you probably shouldn't dismiss them so readily, since like the ex-Mormons that recently resigned from the church, most of them were Mormons and probably know what they're talking about. And too, you probably won't find an objective opinion from a Mormon in good standing since they're taught not to question church doctrine, policy or authority.
 
Moot said:
Well, you probably shouldn't dismiss them so readily, since like the ex-Mormons that recently resigned from the church, most of them were Mormons and probably know what they're talking about. And too, you probably won't find an objective opinion from a Mormon in good standing since they're taught not to question church doctrine, policy or authority.
Click to expand...

The fact that they're apostates with an obvious personal agenda brings their credibility into question, so I avoid them for the same reasons I avoid Alex Jones and the 'omfg Illuminati' crowd: Too much time wasted on sifting out fact from bull**** when credible information is readily available from actual members in good standing that are more than willing to answer my questions honestly.
 
Moot said:
Well, you probably shouldn't dismiss them so readily, since like the ex-Mormons that recently resigned from the church, most of them were Mormons and probably know what they're talking about. And too, you probably won't find an objective opinion from a Mormon in good standing since they're taught not to question church doctrine, policy or authority.
Click to expand...

really? I see questioning going on a lot....even in church! There is no more "indoctrinating" going on in the LDS than there is in any other christian faith. There is probably more propaganda in the anti-mormon groups....
 
Lokiate said:
The fact that they're apostates with an obvious personal agenda brings their credibility into question, so I avoid them for the same reasons I avoid Alex Jones and the 'omfg Illuminati' crowd: Too much time wasted on sifting out fact from bull**** when credible information is readily available from actual members in good standing that are more than willing to answer my questions honestly.
Click to expand...

If you only get your information from one side or source then you are just as biased as those you accuse of bias and your credibility is questionable as well. Surely there must be a valid reasons for the apostates as you call them to leave the church that they were born and raised in, just as there are valid reasons for the faithful to stay in the church. So why not objectively consider what both sides have to say and then decide for yourself?
 
Last edited:
Moot said:
If you only get your information from one side or source then you are just as biased as those you accuse of bias and your credibility is questionable as well. Surely there must be a valid reasons for the apostates as you call them to leave the church that they were born and raised in, just as there are valid reasons for the faithful to stay in the church. So why not objectively consider what both sides have to say and then decide for yourself?
Click to expand...

objectively.....O.K., got it......
objectively consider what both sides say....
It would be like watching MSNBC half the day, and FOX NEWS half the day, and trying to decide which candidate to vote for....
Hart to be objective when the truth is stranded somewhere between extremes.
 
UtahBill said:
really? I see questioning going on a lot....even in church! There is no more "indoctrinating" going on in the LDS than there is in any other christian faith. There is probably more propaganda in the anti-mormon groups....
Click to expand...
You're right, all religions rely on indoctrination and both Mormons and Non-Mormons use propaganda. Yup, that is a fact.
 
UtahBill said:
objectively.....O.K., got it......
objectively consider what both sides say....
It would be like watching MSNBC half the day, and FOX NEWS half the day, and trying to decide which candidate to vote for....
Hart to be objective when the truth is stranded somewhere between extremes.
Click to expand...
Then the middle sounds like the best place to be.
 
Moot said:
If you only get your information from one side or source then you are just as biased as those you accuse of bias and your credibility is questionable as well.
Click to expand...
Not true at all. If you want something defined, do you go to the dictionary, or word of mouth by people who hate the word you're looking for, and want it abolished?

Surely there must be a valid reasons for the apostates as you call them to leave the church that they were born and raised in, just as there are valid reasons for the faithful to stay in the church. So why not objectively consider what both sides have to say and then decide for yourself?
Click to expand...
As I call them? An apostate is someone who leaves their religion, cause, or party. By definition, that's exactly what they are. I posted a genuine inquiry about Kolob, why would I not ask active Mormons who are most likely to satisfactorily answer my question? Why these people left their church is completely irrelevant to my inquiry.
 
Lokiate said:
Not true at all. If you want something defined, do you go to the dictionary, or word of mouth by people who hate the word you're looking for, and want it abolished?

As I call them? An apostate is someone who leaves their religion, cause, or party. By definition, that's exactly what they are. I posted a genuine inquiry about Kolob, why would I not ask active Mormons who are most likely to satisfactorily answer my question? Why these people left their church is completely irrelevant to my inquiry.
Click to expand...
Because the church leaders and active Mormons are trying to distance themselves from their some of their church's history and doctrines and don't like to talk about it. Denying blacks the priesthood, some of the racist views of their past leaders, polygamy, the Mountain Meadow Massacre, the Danites, and even some of Joseph Smith's revelations are just some of the things they don't like to talk about. Personally, I think the LDS church is just trying to modernize their religion and make it more acceptable to more people. There is nothing wrong with that, but when the LDS leaders come across as evasive or unwilling to take responsiblity for the church's past, then some people get angry and want more answers and they don't always like what they find. Others just ignore it and continue on because the church means a lot more to them than just it's past.

Some ex-Mormons have asked some of the same questions you are asking and when the answers they got from their Bishops or Elders or church leaders didn't make sense, they had a crisis of faith that didn't go away and it doesn't matter if it is irrelevant to you, it was relevant enough to them to make them leave the church. That doesn't make ex-Mormons bad people and it doesn't make active Mormons bad people. They're all just people trying to make sense of life the best way they know how.
 
Last edited:
Moot said:
Because the church leaders and active Mormons are trying to distance themselves from their some of their church's history and doctrines and don't like to talk about it.
Click to expand...
So is the Catholic Church, but if I want to get information on the rosary, the best source of information would be a Catholic, would it not?

Denying blacks the priesthood, some of the racist views of their past leaders, polygamy, the Mountain Meadow Massacre, the Danites, and even some of Joseph Smith's revelations are just some of the things they don't like to talk about.
Click to expand...
All irrelevant to my inquiry pertaining to Kolob.

Some ex-Mormons have asked some of the same questions you are asking and when the answers they got from their Bishops or Elders or church leaders didn't make sense, they had a crisis of faith that didn't go away and it doesn't matter if it is irrelevant to you, it was relevant enough to them to make them leave the church. That doesn't make ex-Mormons bad people and it doesn't make active Mormons bad people. But then again, who are you to judge people you know little to nothing about?
Click to expand...
Wait, back the **** up. How are you going to accuse me of judging people, while making damning judgements yourself? The only thing I have made a judgment on the most credible source of information for my questions. If I want information about the Mormon faith, I'm going to ask a Mormon. For some reason, that seems like some wildly outlandish concept to you.
 
Lokiate said:
So is the Catholic Church, but if I want to get information on the rosary, the best source of information would be a Catholic, would it not?
Click to expand...
If you know the Catholic church has rewritten and changed some of it's history and stands by it, then why you would expect to get an honest answer that doesn't fit their belief?

All irrelevant to my inquiry pertaining to Kolob.
Click to expand...
Your inquiry is fast becoming irrelevant as well.

Wait, back the **** up. How are you going to accuse me of judging people, while making damning judgements yourself? The only thing I have made a judgment on the most credible source of information for my questions. If I want information about the Mormon faith, I'm going to ask a Mormon. For some reason, that seems like some wildly outlandish concept to you.
Click to expand...
You have already judged ex Mormons as incredible as if you know already know the truth and you don't. So fine go ask a Mormon, it doesn't matter to me what you do.
 
Moot said:
You have already judged ex Mormons as incredible as if you know already know the truth and you don't. So fine go ask a Mormon, it doesn't matter to me what you do.
Click to expand...
I deemed active Mormons a more credible source of information on the specific question I asked. Huge difference from what you're trying to state. Plus I did ask a Mormon. I got an answer from another Mormon, then you invited yourself to the conversation and made a scene out of nothing. It's not all about you.
 
When I want to know what the Democrats are up to, I ask a Republican. And when I want to know what Republicans are up to, I ask a Democrat. Because for some reason, the two parties seem to know more about the other than they do about their own party. Oddly enough, I find the same is true for ex-Mormons and Mormons as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom