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It's a sin to oppose same sex marriage

If one believes that sexual acts other than for procreational purposes are "inherently immoral' then one must also conclude that kissing is also. Kiss your baby all you wish.
:shock:

How does one normally kisses a baby? Emphasis on, NORMALLY.

Kisses that are sexual would be like "French Kisses" - who kisses a baby like that?


There's nothing sexual about kissing a baby.. ....unless the kisses comes from a pedophile.

Even then, do all kisses that come from a pedophile necessarily be sexual? Just curious....
 
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The problem faced by a person coming to terms with the fact that they are gay, and trying to somehow find their place in the world as a christian is very difficult. Those who are in that situation feel a lot of guilt. Pray and ask for forgiveness, let Jesus carry the guilt for you. You are a sinner, but maintain god-consciousness through all things in your life. Just like there are addicts who may never be free of it. All people commit sins, even the righteous sometimes suffer sins of arrogance and no matter how far along you are with your faith, life's challenges raise themselves to you again and again. We may be knowledgeable, we may have learned but circumstances arise and we will fall, again. That is why we have forgiveness, so that we can deal with the guilt of our actions and continue to live and still find a goodness in this life.

I do not condemn anyone who is gay, or an adulterer for that matter. I pray for them to find righteousness in the eyes of god, and what that means is for god to decide.
 
May I add this, too:

for those of us who are heterosexual, we need to remember that being homosexual is as such no sin. Most homosexuals did not choose such an orientation and would like to change it if they could. We need to accept and lovingly support brothers and sisters who are struggling with this problem. And in general, we need to extend God’s love to homosexual people. Vulgar words or jokes about homosexuals should never pass the lips of a Christian.

If you find yourself feeling glad when some affliction befalls a homosexual person or you find feelings of hatred welling up in your heart toward homosexual people, then you need to reflect long and hard on the words of Jesus recorded in Matthew: “it will be more tolerable on the Day of Judgement for Sodom and Gomorrah than for you” (Mt. 10.15; 11.24).


Read more: A Christian Perspective on Homosexuality | Reasonable Faith
 
That is my argument.

For years I have asked people to explain why homosexuality is a sin in the Bible. Why would God care. For years they have been unable to provide a decent argument.

They generally respond that it is a sin because God said so or it is "unnatural" a.k.a. not part of God's design, but that is insufficient for an argument. Understanding the rational for why something is a sin is just as much a part of Christian theology and knowing that it is a sin.

So I will make an argument for why homosexuality is a sin in the Bible.

It's a sin because homosexuality is an act of adultery. It is sexual activity that traditionally occurs outside of marriage. It generally occurs outside of a monogamous relationship and it serves no purpose towards creating a family.

But things have changed. We are no longer in ancient Rome. Now the moral thing to do is to allow same sex couples to marry and to encourage same sex couples to adopt and form families.

To oppose this idea is to commit the sin of legalism. To emphasize the letter of the law over the spirit of the law.

Some would argue that marriage is defined in the Bible as between one man and one woman. That is not the case. Nobody ever asked Jesus if same sex unions are outside of the marriage covenant. All anyone asked Jesus was whether men could divorce their wife for any reason, and Jesus responded to that question within the context of that question. Many have taken his response out of context and in their own opinion, have argued that it is an absolutist definition for marriage as between one man and one woman. What they have failed to do is explain the rational behind that absolutist definition.

I have never heard an argument as to how same sex marriage would be outside of the spirit of the law. All I have ever heard is that homosexuality is not obedience to the law.


Actually a Christian doesn't oppose anothers choice of freewill, a Christian points out the fact Gods word teaches---1 Corinthians 6:9-11--These will not enter Gods kingdom( get eternal life) nor these galations 5:19-21--- but some of these are pointing at some of those( casting stones) but many practice all the things listed--yet teachers of darkness tell them they are saved or born again.( for the tithe I believe)
The only way to beat this world and its ruler satan--Matthew 16:24
 
A great arguement. I would also like to add that jesus supposedly said we are all to love on another and in this case isn't the hatred towards the gay community disobeying that?

View attachment 67125055

That's like saying we should approve of adultery / adulterers too.

"Love does not rejoice in iniquity." - 1 Corinthians 13

And,

"Love does no harm to a neighbor" - Romans 13 (such as enticing one's neighbor into a sinful relationship for which there are negative temporal and eternal consequences).

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil.
 
Actually a Christian doesn't oppose anothers choice of freewill, a Christian points out the fact Gods word teaches---1 Corinthians 6:9-11--These will not enter Gods kingdom( get eternal life) nor these galations 5:19-21--- but some of these are pointing at some of those( casting stones) but many practice all the things listed--yet teachers of darkness tell them they are saved or born again.( for the tithe I believe)
The only way to beat this world and its ruler satan--Matthew 16:24

There are many ways to interpret the Bible.
 
As Christians,
who, ourselves, have been granted forgiveness,
we are to forgive,
and not sit in judgement,
od
because ANYONE can come to our God, through His Son Jesus, for the exact same forgiveness of ALL sin.

Yes, God can save anyone who will REPENT (Luke 13:3) and come to him for salvation in Christ. I've yet to see a practicing gay repent of their (gay sex) sins, although there probably have been some. However, there's more to it.

Jesus told us to make "correct judgments". The idea that we can't declare an act a sin is not in the Bible. God did it, John the Baptist did it, Stephen did it, and so did a whole bunch of other Biblical personalities.

Here's what the Bible says about judging:

The Bible – Is it Wrong to Judge? « The Righter Report

Two excerpts:

God uses people to warn others to turn from their sin:

“When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.” – Ezekiel 33


But stay quiet, and evil will abound:

“The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to (say and) do nothing.” – Edmund Burke
 
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There are many ways to interpret the Bible.

Its the same now as it was in the ot---- One truth, one religion, one faith, one God-YHWH(Jehovah)====Jesus' God--John 20:17, rev 3:12. so then there really is only 1 way to interpret correctly.
There are two different Jesus' being taught in this world. One is correct.
 
I'm unmarried, so I don't engage in sexual activity.
You do not masturbate at all?
I have reason and free will so it doesn't really bother me.
You also appear to have an unusually low sex drive, and therefore cannot relate to those of us who have normal or relatively high sex drives. You apparently have not often experienced the feeling of needing (not just wanting) to ejaculate. You have not experienced what a nagging, frustrating, and even painful, situation this can be. Hell I'd be surprised if you've even ever experienced an unwanted erection that you couldn't get rid of. During my late teens and early 20's, I couldn't get to sleep at night unless I did something because the situation downstairs was so uncomfortable. It wasn't so much for the gratification as it was a chore that just needed to be done. You don't know what that's like, do you? I do, and it sucked. Sometimes I even thought I'd be willing to give up sex forever if it meant I wasn't ****ing horny all the gd time.

This is one of the things that finally led me to conclude that many of the sex laws in the Bible were fabricated by men, not commanded by God. The God I believe in would not impose upon us a strong biological desire to have sex, only to turn around and put a bunch of pointless restrictions on it like "only if you're married, and oh by the way no masturbation either if you're not married." What kind of sick asshole would do such a thing? Certainly not God, since God is not an asshole. People, however...

The "no sex until marriage" laws also encourage people to get married too young. People in Biblical times got married around the time they hit puberty; they weren't expected to go years without sex while waiting to meet the right person to marry. Nowadays nobody would argue that getting married too young is a recipe for divorce. But these ancient and pointless sex rules encourage them to do exactly that.

By the way, Deuteronomy condemns wearing cotton and wool in the same garment, and planting two kinds of seeds in your vineyard. These are the same laws that originally condemn homosexuality. And these are supposed to be God's laws?? No, these were obviously written by men. God gave us reason and logic, we owe it to Him to sniff out this BS for what it is and live in peace and harmony with each other like He really wants, instead of casting judgement about who is and is not a sinner based on pointless laws that were obviously made up by cave men.
 
You also appear to have an unusually low sex drive, and therefore cannot relate to those of us who have normal or relatively high sex drives. You apparently have not often experienced the feeling of needing (not just wanting) to ejaculate. You have not experienced what a nagging, frustrating, and even painful, situation this can be. Hell I'd be surprised if you've even ever experienced an unwanted erection that you couldn't get rid of. During my late teens and early 20's, I couldn't get to sleep at night unless I did something because the situation downstairs was so uncomfortable. It wasn't so much for the gratification as it was a chore that just needed to be done. You don't know what that's like, do you? I do, and it sucked. Sometimes I even thought I'd be willing to give up sex forever if it meant I wasn't ****ing horny all the gd time.

This is one of the things that finally led me to conclude that many of the sex laws in the Bible were fabricated by men, not commanded by God. The God I believe in would not impose upon us a strong biological desire to have sex, only to turn around and put a bunch of pointless restrictions on it like "only if you're married, and oh by the way no masturbation either if you're not married." What kind of sick asshole would do such a thing? Certainly not God, since God is not an asshole. People, however...

The "no sex until marriage" laws also encourage people to get married too young. People in Biblical times got married around the time they hit puberty; they weren't expected to go years without sex while waiting to meet the right person to marry. Nowadays nobody would argue that getting married too young is a recipe for divorce. But these ancient and pointless sex rules encourage them to do exactly that.

By the way, Deuteronomy condemns wearing cotton and wool in the same garment, and planting two kinds of seeds in your vineyard. These are the same laws that originally condemn homosexuality. And these are supposed to be God's laws?? No, these were obviously written by men. God gave us reason and logic, we owe it to Him to sniff out this BS for what it is and live in peace and harmony with each other like He really wants, instead of casting judgement about who is and is not a sinner based on pointless laws that were obviously made up by cave men.

I have my own temptations, and while you have my sympathy for your medical condition, it cannot justify acts which are intrinsically disordered.

The "God is evil/bad if he doesn't allow me to do what I want" line of reasoning is extremely prideful.

Are we really better off with the average person not marrying until they're thirty?

Which parts of the Bible were written by cave men?
 
Not expressively, but anything that causes destruction of seed (male masturbation, using a condom, etc), is forbidden. (Onan was killed for spilling his seed upon the ground).

back then, to have that kind of a regulation wasn't that much of a big deal(it's said, not even some pagans would spill their seed). You didn't have a society that was constantly being barraged by a mass media whos only purpose is to sell sexuality. If there was an enticing girl, you usually didn't masturbate and "think about her".

Hey, at least you can't say it's all anti-feminist. Just think how hard it is for a guy to obey that. it'd be a fight everyday, in this day and age.

No onan was not killed for that. Onan was killed for failing to due his legal duty and get his brothers wife pregnant because he didn't want to lose his inheritence. so when he went into her and every time he went to her he refused to fulfill his obligation to his brother and pass on an heir.

for if he got her pregnant and she bore a son then he would be his brothers heir not his. that is why he was killed.
why people get this story wrong i do not understand.
 
That is my argument.

For years I have asked people to explain why homosexuality is a sin in the Bible. Why would God care. For years they have been unable to provide a decent argument.

They generally respond that it is a sin because God said so or it is "unnatural" a.k.a. not part of God's design, but that is insufficient for an argument. Understanding the rational for why something is a sin is just as much a part of Christian theology and knowing that it is a sin.

So I will make an argument for why homosexuality is a sin in the Bible.

It's a sin because homosexuality is an act of adultery. It is sexual activity that traditionally occurs outside of marriage. It generally occurs outside of a monogamous relationship and it serves no purpose towards creating a family.

But things have changed. We are no longer in ancient Rome. Now the moral thing to do is to allow same sex couples to marry and to encourage same sex couples to adopt and form families.

To oppose this idea is to commit the sin of legalism. To emphasize the letter of the law over the spirit of the law.

Some would argue that marriage is defined in the Bible as between one man and one woman. That is not the case. Nobody ever asked Jesus if same sex unions are outside of the marriage covenant. All anyone asked Jesus was whether men could divorce their wife for any reason, and Jesus responded to that question within the context of that question. Many have taken his response out of context and in their own opinion, have argued that it is an absolutist definition for marriage as between one man and one woman. What they have failed to do is explain the rational behind that absolutist definition.

I have never heard an argument as to how same sex marriage would be outside of the spirit of the law. All I have ever heard is that homosexuality is not obedience to the law.

There are many reasons for this mostly have to do with cleaniness. The israelistes were nomadic for a long time. when you have large groups of people living in close quarters disease can easily kill off large masses of people.

that is why women and men caught whoring around were killed.
homosexuals are the highest risk catagory for STD's and other diseases due to the lack of protection they use.
the other reason is that homosexuality means the end of the bloodline. since the bloodline was passed down by father to son a man sleeping with men ended his family line unless there was someone else.

war and disease took heavy population tolls on populations back then. it was not uncommon for 1000 people or more to be killed or injured in battle. sometimes 10's of thousands were killed. this meant that you needed a consistant regenration of males to replace the ones that were lost.

the last reason is that the israelites were to be God's people and therefore they were to be set apart from the other cultures in the area. those cultures practiced such things. in order to be set apart means they would need to be different. it is the same reason that they practice circumsision.

so that they would be set apart.
 
No onan was not killed for that. Onan was killed for failing to due his legal duty and get his brothers wife pregnant because he didn't want to lose his inheritence. so when he went into her and every time he went to her he refused to fulfill his obligation to his brother and pass on an heir.

for if he got her pregnant and she bore a son then he would be his brothers heir not his. that is why he was killed.
why people get this story wrong i do not understand.

The penalty for failing in that legal duty was public humiliation, not death.
 
Some things in the Bible have no need, and leave no room for “interpretation”, except in the eyes of those who are unwilling to accept what it clearly says.

That is your opinion. Everything in the Bible is subject to interpretation. To not do so is to elevate it to an idol and to worship it. And I am pretty sure the Christian God takes issue with idol worship, even if it is of a man written version of his word.

There is nothing "clear" in the Bible. You have to have a decent knowledge of Greek and Latin to even begin to have a good historical understanding of the book.
 
The penalty for failing in that legal duty was public humiliation, not death.

God saw it the other way.

But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother's wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother. 10 And what he did was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.

it had nothing to do with him masterbating and everything to do withh him purposly not giving his brother a child.
 
That is your opinion. Everything in the Bible is subject to interpretation. To not do so is to elevate it to an idol and to worship it. And I am pretty sure the Christian God takes issue with idol worship, even if it is of a man written version of his word.

There is nothing "clear" in the Bible. You have to have a decent knowledge of Greek and Latin to even begin to have a good historical understanding of the book.

wrong there are plenty of things clear in the bible. the only people that try to say things are not clear are people that want to distort what the bible says for their own purpose.
no you don't have to have decent knowledge of greek or latin as the bible wasn't written in latin it was written in hebrew and greek.

even then we have translations that we can look up.
 
The "God is evil/bad if he doesn't allow me to do what I want" line of reasoning is extremely prideful.
But that's not what I said is it? It's not about what I want, it's about what HE made me NEED.

Are we really better off with the average person not marrying until they're thirty?
Yes. The divorce rate is dramatically lower for those people who wait for marriage because they are much more mature. How could anyone disagree with that?

Which parts of the Bible were written by cave men?
With respect, I think a better question would be what parts were not.
 
wrong there are plenty of things clear in the bible. the only people that try to say things are not clear are people that want to distort what the bible says for their own purpose.
no you don't have to have decent knowledge of greek or latin as the bible wasn't written in latin it was written in hebrew and greek.

even then we have translations that we can look up.

Your opinion. The Bible was a collection that originated as oral traditions that were passed by mouth in culturally specific regions, often decades before they were written. Then they were compliled by men who cut some books and then translated in culturally specific ways. Then hundreds of years later they were translated from the translations. So it is nothing short of dishonest to claim there is anything "clear" in the Bible. As a matter of faith you can claim to choose to see it as clear, but that amounts to little more than your opinion, which falls far short of a Biblical scholar. And you interpret things in the context of your own culture which differs considerably from the ancients.
 
Your opinion. The Bible was a collection that originated as oral traditions that were passed by mouth in culturally specific regions, often decades before they were written. Then they were compliled by men who cut some books and then translated in culturally specific ways. Then hundreds of years later they were translated from the translations. So it is nothing short of dishonest to claim there is anything "clear" in the Bible. As a matter of faith you can claim to choose to see it as clear, but that amounts to little more than your opinion, which falls far short of a Biblical scholar. And you interpret things in the context of your own culture which differs considerably from the ancients.

you might want to take a class in bible history before spouting your mouth off. The fact is that yes while it was passed down orallly it was very accurate and the israelites made sure of it. One of the requirements for being a priest was to have it memorized. Not only that to pass a test as a priest you had to recite it word for word. if you did not then they killed you. the reason being was to ensure that what you say didn't happen.

the scrolls they had were re-written every few years to preserve them, and the only people that could write the scrolls were the priest class.

they have compared different versions of the bible that we have found there is little difference in the translations through the years. it is highly accurate between versions.

no it is pretty clear.
 
Your opinion. The Bible was a collection that originated as oral traditions that were passed by mouth in culturally specific regions, often decades before they were written. Then they were compliled by men who cut some books and then translated in culturally specific ways. Then hundreds of years later they were translated from the translations. So it is nothing short of dishonest to claim there is anything "clear" in the Bible. As a matter of faith you can claim to choose to see it as clear, but that amounts to little more than your opinion, which falls far short of a Biblical scholar. And you interpret things in the context of your own culture which differs considerably from the ancients.

2 Cor 11:13-15 (Phi) "God's messengers?" They are counterfeits of the real thing, dishonest practitioners masquerading as the messengers of Christ. Nor do their tactics surprise me when I consider how Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is only to be expected that his agents shall have the appearance of ministers of righteousness--but they will get what they deserve in the end.
 
you might want to take a class in bible history before spouting your mouth off. The fact is that yes while it was passed down orallly it was very accurate and the israelites made sure of it. One of the requirements for being a priest was to have it memorized. Not only that to pass a test as a priest you had to recite it word for word. if you did not then they killed you. the reason being was to ensure that what you say didn't happen.

the scrolls they had were re-written every few years to preserve them, and the only people that could write the scrolls were the priest class.

they have compared different versions of the bible that we have found there is little difference in the translations through the years. it is highly accurate between versions.

no it is pretty clear.

False. Show your sources on the dead sea scrolls, not your assumptions.
 
2 Cor 11:13-15 (Phi) "God's messengers?" They are counterfeits of the real thing, dishonest practitioners masquerading as the messengers of Christ. Nor do their tactics surprise me when I consider how Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is only to be expected that his agents shall have the appearance of ministers of righteousness--but they will get what they deserve in the end.

Yeah I get it. Anyone who does not agree with your subjective opinion is an agent of Satan and evil incarnate. Convenient way to never evaluate your beliefs. Worked well for people who burned witches, including King James.
 
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