Problems in the Catholic Church

MaggieD · Apr 28, 2014

phattonez said:
You realize that non-Catholic Communion is not the literal body and blood of Christ, correct? They're not all the same. Catholics and Protestants agree that what they call "Eucharist" is not the literal body and blood of Christ.

My point is, "What is the difference?" Why should a Catholic priest be judging whether or not someone should be able to take communion? As for 1 Corinthians, those are not the supposed words of Jesus or God. I don't recall Christ asking if someone was communion worthy, do you? In fact, Christ said, "Drink of it, all of you." He didn't say, "As long as you're not in mortal sin....he didn't say as long as you really truly believe....anything. "Drink of it, all of you."

The Catholic Church, unlike protestant faiths, is exclusionary by its very nature. I find it highly offensive. You were raised Catholic. You've never questioned it. I wasn't. I do.

phattonez · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
My point is, "What is the difference?"

The difference is huge. One concerns the literal body and blood of Christ, the other concerns a worthless piece of bread.

Why should a Catholic priest be judging whether or not someone should be able to take communion?

Because his job as priest is to protect souls and save as many as possible from Hell. Receiving the Eucharist without discerning the body and blood of Christ is drinking judgment on yourself.

As for 1 Corinthians, those are not the supposed words of Jesus or God. I don't recall Christ asking if someone was communion worthy, do you? In fact, Christ said, "Drink of it, all of you." He didn't say, "As long as you're not in mortal sin....he didn't say as long as you really truly believe....anything. "Drink of it, all of you."

Do you think it makes a difference whether St. Paul or Jesus said it? We get the Bible from the same authority and that authority declared the words in the Bible to all be inspired. The words of Jesus are not more inspired than the words of St. Paul. It's not as if Jesus wrote the Gospels: He didn't. His apostles and their followers wrote it. There is no degree of inspiration in the Bible.

The Catholic Church, unlike protestant faiths, is exclusionary by its very nature. I find it highly offensive. You were raised Catholic. You've never questioned it. I wasn't. I do.

Don't presume that you know anything about me. You don't. I was raised nominally Catholic, and went to a Protestant school for 8 years. I seriously considered converting, but later became convinced of the truth of the Catholic Church.

Paleocon · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
My point is, "What is the difference?" Why should a Catholic priest be judging whether or not someone should be able to take communion? As for 1 Corinthians, those are not the supposed words of Jesus or God. I don't recall Christ asking if someone was communion worthy, do you? In fact, Christ said, "Drink of it, all of you." He didn't say, "As long as you're not in mortal sin....he didn't say as long as you really truly believe....anything. "Drink of it, all of you."

The Catholic Church, unlike protestant faiths, is exclusionary by its very nature. I find it highly offensive. You were raised Catholic. You've never questioned it. I wasn't. I do.

I thought you were a former Catholic?

MaggieD · Apr 28, 2014

phattonez said:
The difference is huge. One concerns the literal body and blood of Christ, the other concerns a worthless piece of bread.

Because his job as priest is to protect souls and save as many as possible from Hell. Receiving the Eucharist without discerning the body and blood of Christ is drinking judgment on yourself.

Do you think it makes a difference whether St. Paul or Jesus said it? We get the Bible from the same authority and that authority declared the words in the Bible to all be inspired. The words of Jesus are not more inspired than the words of St. Paul. It's not as if Jesus wrote the Gospels: He didn't. His apostles and their followers wrote it. There is no degree of inspiration in the Bible.

Don't presume that you know anything about me. You don't. I was raised nominally Catholic, and went to a Protestant school for 8 years. I seriously considered converting, but later became convinced of the truth of the Catholic Church.

The Lutheran Church:

How is Jesus present in His Supper? We do not try to explain how Jesus is present under the bread and wine of the Lord’s Supper,rather we believe,teach, confess and rejoice that He is present. We Lutherans let the words of Jesus stand without arguing about their possibility,or trying to explain how they are true.As Luther put it so clearly, “We maintain that the bread and the wine in the Supper are the true body and blood of Christ”(SA III.6).Everyone who communes receives into their mouths the body and blood of Jesus Christ, whether they believe it or not,be they worthy or unworthy

The Catholic Church denies communion to people who aren't Catholics. Period.

Cryptic · Apr 28, 2014

Paleocon said:
How many non-Catholics do you know who believe in transubstantiation?

Orthodox Christians (Russian, Greek, Bulgarian etc), Coptic Christians (Egyptian, Ethiopian), Armenian Orthodox and possibly Anglicans

MaggieD · Apr 28, 2014

Paleocon said:
I thought you were a former Catholic?

I converted to Catholicism when I was 20 years old. The priest who taught me was hesitant. Said I asked too many questions.

phattonez · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
The Lutheran Church:

They believe in "Sacramental Union". They hold the odd position that it is bread also. Further, they don't have validly ordained priests so it's not the Body and Blood of Christ anyway. But if they believe it to be, then they should be denying it to those who don't discern the body and blood of Christ.

Or do you think a sense of community is more important than risking eternal damnation?

The Catholic Church denies communion to people who aren't Catholics. Period.

For their protection. Period.

phattonez · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
I converted to Catholicism when I was 20 years old. The priest who taught me was hesitant. Said I asked too many questions.

Was he also the kind of priest who loved rainbow vestments, had guitars and drums in the sanctuary, and constantly referred to the altar as a table?

Cryptic · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
The Catholic Church denies communion to people who aren't Catholics. Period.

Not entirely true. Orthodox Christians of the Russian, Greek, Romanian etc. branches can receive communion in Catholic churches. These churches have millions of members. Members Assyrian Church of the East can also receive communion in Catholic churces and so can the very small and probably demographically collapsed Polish National Catholic Church splinter group.

MaggieD · Apr 28, 2014

phattonez said:
They believe in "Sacramental Union". They hold the odd position that it is bread also. Further, they don't have validly ordained priests so it's not the Body and Blood of Christ anyway. But if they believe it to be, then they should be denying it to those who don't discern the body and blood of Christ.

Or do you think a sense of community is more important than risking eternal damnation?

For their protection. Period.

You are a hoot. A hoot, I tell ya'. And you embody the very reason that I am no longer a Catholic. I wonder if Christ was a "validly ordained priest." :rofl

Folks, ya' just can't make this stuff up.

MaggieD · Apr 28, 2014

Cryptic said:
Not entirely true. Orthodox Christians of the Russian, Greek, Romanian school can receive communion in Catholic churches. These churches have millions of members. Members Assyrian Church of the East can also receive communion in Catholic churces and so can the very small and probably demographically collapsed Polish National Catholic Church splinter group.

Link please. If that were true, the priest wouldn't have turned his back on my mom when he asked her if she was Catholic.

MaggieD · Apr 28, 2014

phattonez said:
Was he also the kind of priest who loved rainbow vestments, had guitars and drums in the sanctuary, and constantly referred to the altar as a table?

No, he was a 70+-year-old priest. Why? Do you judge your Catholic priests by how they dress?

Cryptic · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
Link please. If that were true, the priest wouldn't have turned his back on my mom when he asked her if she was Catholic.

Sure: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090428183405AA3D8tK

Look at the Shirely's response. That is taken from the missal in every Catholic church.

Here it is from EWTN:
http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=399271&language=en

Paleocon · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
The Lutheran Church:

The Catholic Church denies communion to people who aren't Catholics. Period.

Lutherans believe in consubstantiation.

phattonez · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
You are a hoot. A hoot, I tell ya'. And you embody the very reason that I am no longer a Catholic. I wonder if Christ was a "validly ordained priest." :rofl

Folks, ya' just can't make this stuff up.

Do you know the significance of the tunic that the soldiers cast lots over? Do you know why St. John mentions that it was seamless?

Paleocon · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
Link please. If that were true, the priest wouldn't have turned his back on my mom when he asked her if she was Catholic.

Was your mother one of those? Besides, most of those groups don't allow their own members to receive communion in the Catholic Church.

phattonez · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
No, he was a 70+-year-old priest. Why? Do you judge your Catholic priests by how they dress?

There is plenty of heresy or near-heresy in the Church today. So I'd like to know more about this priest. Did he encourage the faithful to go to confession? Did he ever speak about abortion or birth control? Did you ever hear Latin during Mass? Did you ever hear any chant?

MaggieD · Apr 28, 2014

phattonez said:
There is plenty of heresy or near-heresy in the Church today. So I'd like to know more about this priest. Did he encourage the faithful to go to confession? Did he ever speak about abortion or birth control? Did you ever hear Latin during Mass? Did you ever hear any chant?

The mass was in Latin. No "chant" whatever that is. He was an old-school priest, Phattonez. I asked enough questions that he finally said, "Maggie, you've just got to take that as faith." He was, in the eyes of a church, a conventional good ole' boy. This was many years ago. I've held a grudge against the Catholic Church for a long time.

phattonez · Apr 28, 2014

MaggieD said:
The mass was in Latin. No "chant" whatever that is. He was an old-school priest, Phattonez. I asked enough questions that he finally said, "Maggie, you've just got to take that as faith." He was, in the eyes of a church, a conventional good ole' boy. This was many years ago. I've held a grudge against the Catholic Church for a long time.

Uhuh. The idea that "you've just got to take that as faith" is unreasonable and does no justice to the overwhelming evidence that we have for believing what we believe.