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Age of the Earth

Manc Skipper said:
Marine fossils are evidence that the land they are embedded in was once at the bottom of a sea. They are neatly stratified, only certain fossils are found at certain strata. A flood would leave a jumble with the heaviest on the bottom and lighter ones above. This is not the case.
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When it was all said and done, it was a sea.

Quantrill
 
Manc Skipper said:
... And below too. Where did it go?
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Genesis 8:5 "And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen."

Quantrill
 
If God was just going to completely disregard the entire structure of his own creation, why the charade and deception? Why not just make the bad people just fall down dead? If He was just going to magic all the animals into being saved anyway, why pretend like building a boat to put them in had anything to do with it? He may as well have had Noah build a teacup to put grains of sand in for all the relevence it had.
 
Quantrill said:
Genesis 8:5 "And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen."

Quantrill
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Where did they "decrease" to? Matter can't be destroyed.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Where did they "decrease" to? Matter can't be destroyed.
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It can be destroyed by magic. And 20,000,000 kinds of animals can fit on a 450' boat by magic, and the food for all those animals can be kept from going bad by magic, and the animals can be kept from freezing by magic, and can breath at an altitude of over 30,000 feet by magic, and saltwater fish can survive a massive decrease in salinity by magic, and freshwater fish can survive a massive increase in salinity by magic, and bottom dwellers can survive massive crushing pressure by magic, and animals waste magically disappears by magic, etc...
 
Panache said:
If God was just going to completely disregard the entire structure of his own creation, why the charade and deception? Why not just make the bad people just fall down dead? If He was just going to magic all the animals into being saved anyway, why pretend like building a boat to put them in had anything to do with it? He may as well have had Noah build a teacup to put grains of sand in for all the relevence it had.
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There is no charade or deception. God created the earth and universe. He at times intervenes for various reasons miraculously to accomplish His will.

Well, he could have just made everyone fall dead. He could have killed Satan at the start and avoided it all. He could have never created Lucifer and avoided it all. He could have done a lot of things. But this is what He did.

Who said He is pretending? He is not. The Bible is clear.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
Gen. 7:17 " And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased,...."

Quantrill
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Not possible without magic. What happens to trees and crops after 40 days under 30,000 feet of salty water?
 
Luke Chapter 3 said:
23. When He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli,
24. the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25. the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Hesli, the son of Naggai,
26. the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
27. the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,
28. the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29. the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,
30. the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31. the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David,
32. the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon,
33. the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah,
34. the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
35. the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Heber, the son of Shelah,
36. the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
37. the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan,
38. the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
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That is the literal lineage from Adam to Jesus in a single breath. If you add up all the specific numbers from Genesis through Ruth (i.e. Noah was 500 years old when he had Shem) and assume 30 years between all the other generations, you come up with about 5700 years.

antarctic620_1769142b.jpg
That is an ice core taken from Antarctica. Each ring represents one year, just like rings on a tree. There are several ways that they know each ring is one year, and not just one snowstorm:

- Higher levels of berilium can be found every 11 rings, following the sun's 11-year sun spot cycle.
- Lead can be found in the rings corresponding to the 1970s when we still used leaded gasoline.
- Every major volcanic eruption since 430 A.D. is documented in the correct rings with ash and other chemicals consistent with volcanic eruptions.

The EPICA project recently pulled a core from Antarctica that goes back 740,000 years.

There are no carbon or potassium/argon dating techniques here; this is undeniable proof that:

1. The earth is at least 740,000 years old.
2. The Bible (at least Luke chapter 3) is not infallible.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Not possible without magic. What happens to trees and crops after 40 days under 30,000 feet of salty water?
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God is able. I suspect they die. Though Im not sure of your measurement.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
God is able. I suspect they die. Though Im not sure of your measurement.

Quantrill
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Merely using god as an explanation for every single thing doesn't make it suddenly believable, you know.

Makes it more and more childish to me - like when my Mom snarked over what I was learning in geology class. Plate tectonics? No! Planetary upheaval! No - not that either! (because THAT stuff is IMPOSSIBLE) No: it must be that the earth was completely covered with water - yes - that's why we find oceanic fossils IN rocks near mountain tops.

Indeed! That explains it all.

If people are going to believe in a god then they should believe that ANYTHING is possible - yeah? Why do religious people always have to conflict with scientific evidence? We don't have just one random sample as evidence of one thing - we have 10, 15, 20 vastly different bits of evidence that all point to the same conclusions and happenings of nature.
 
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Binary_Digit said:
That is the literal lineage from Adam to Jesus in a single breath. If you add up all the specific numbers from Genesis through Ruth (i.e. Noah was 500 years old when he had Shem) and assume 30 years between all the other generations, you come up with about 5700 years.

View attachment 67123292
That is an ice core taken from Antarctica. Each ring represents one year, just like rings on a tree. There are several ways that they know each ring is one year, and not just one snowstorm:

- Higher levels of berilium can be found every 11 rings, following the sun's 11-year sun spot cycle.
- Lead can be found in the rings corresponding to the 1970s when we still used leaded gasoline.
- Every major volcanic eruption since 430 A.D. is documented in the correct rings with ash and other chemicals consistent with volcanic eruptions.

The EPICA project recently pulled a core from Antarctica that goes back 740,000 years.

There are no carbon or potassium/argon dating techniques here; this is undeniable proof that:

1. The earth is at least 740,000 years old.
2. The Bible (at least Luke chapter 3) is not infallible.
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I looked hard but couldn't read anywhere on that ice core where it said the geneology of Adam or man in Luke 3 was wrong.

And, your dating is based on all things being the same in the past as they are now. And according to the Bible they were not. So, Im not to assured by science's dating.

Quantrill
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Merely using god as an explanation for every single thing doesn't make it suddenly believable, you know.

Makes it more and more childish to me - like when my Mom snarked over what I was learning in geology class. Plate tectonics? No! Planetary upheaval! No - not that either! No: it must be that the earth was completely covered with water - yes - that's why we find oceanic fossils IN rocks near mountain tops.

Indeed! That explains it all.
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I didn't say you had to believe it. But that is what the Bible teaches. And I believe it. The flood of Noah is from God from the begining to the end. It is supernatural in all its aspects. You cannot understand it outside of believing it is from God.

I don't mind if you want to believe your science and plate tectonics. I will believe the Biblical record.

Quantrill
 
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Quantrill said:
I didn't say you had to believe it. But that is what the Bible teaches. And I believe it. The flood of Noah is from God from the begining to the end. It is supernatural in all its aspects. You cannot understand it outside of believing it is from God.

I don't mind if you want to believe your science and plate tectonics. I will believe the Biblical record.

Quantrill
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But in your previous post you seemed to suggest that they don't have to conflict - but you're now saying they do?

Why can't religious people believe in plate tectonics?

You believe in the New World - that wasn't in the Bible. In fact: you believe in a lot of things because you live them; they arren't in the Bible :shrug: Why is there a line drawn when it comes to creation VS earth science, then?

If there is a god and he played a part: he didn't just create the earth here a few thousand years ago - he would be, in my view, responsible for the big-bang that all our naturally observed evidence points to . . . why this is a serious issue for some religious people I have no clue.
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
But in your previous post you seemed to suggest that they don't have to conflict - but you're now saying they do?

Why can't religious people believe in plate tectonics?

You believe in the New World - that wasn't in the Bible. In fact: you believe in a lot of things because you live them; they arren't in the Bible :shrug: Why is there a line drawn when it comes to creation VS earth science, then?

If there is a god and he played a part: he didn't just create the earth here a few thousand years ago - he would be, in my view, responsible for the big-bang that all our naturally observed evidence points to . . . why this is a serious issue for some religious people I have no clue.
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Your going to have to show me which post your talking about.

I didn't say Christians can't believe in plate tectonics. You presented it as a reason to deny the evidence of the flood found in fossils all over the world. And I as a Christian don't need your plate tectonics to explain the fossils. A flood would explain the fossils.

There is a line between creation and science only because scientists deny God created the earth and universe. The Bible declares otherwise.

There is God, and He did not just play a part. The Bible says He created it all. He is responsible for it all.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
Your going to have to show me which post your talking about.

I didn't say Christians can't believe in plate tectonics. You presented it as a reason to deny the evidence of the flood found in fossils all over the world. And I as a Christian don't need your plate tectonics to explain the fossils. A flood would explain the fossils.

There is a line between creation and science only because scientists deny God created the earth and universe. The Bible declares otherwise.

There is God, and He did not just play a part. The Bible says He created it all. He is responsible for it all.

Quantrill
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Well: how does a flood explain fossils embeded in rocks on top of mountains that you have to dig into the soil and rock bed to find?

Fossils take more than a few thousand years to form when they're impacted into sedimentary rock. That takes pressure, mineralization and lithification. . .They're not just bone fragments trapped in hardened mud.

Further: What mountain range out there builds on itself? Two things happen: to be formed they're uplifted - something we can measure happening to mountain ranges like the Himalayas at present. if they've reduced in size that means they've eroded which exposes the earth/rock underneath.

If the great flood explains fossils on mountaintops then the only way this could be true is if 1) The entire earth flooded. 2) the flood then deposited fish (etc) 3) these fish (etc) were compressed into soil. 4) eventually these remnants fossilized (which means their biological matter was slowly 'replaced' with minerals as it decayed). 5) Layers and layers of soil and dirt were then deposited on top of said rock formation after they formed (because you have to excavate to find many of these fossils and break away rocks to expose them) - all while they were on top of a mountain.

Well - that's just not how things happen in nature. It is impossible - even if the flood did happen - for the flood to be an explanation for fossilization found atop mountains.

Rocks do not form at the peaks of mountains - and there is no way, other than man carrying mounds of soil, to the top of a mountain for a mountain to 'build' soil on top of said biological deposites. Moutain peaks do not grow like stalactites in a cave - they only have weatherization and erosion happening against them to reduce their size. The only way they grow is for them to be deposited by volcanic mass (which is not how the Himalayas formed) - and plate collision noted by the science of plate tectonics which has more than enough evidence ot speak for itself as a matter of scientific fact.

Of course the trained religious response is: 'with god anything's possible and if he wanted to instantly fossilize some fish on top of a mountain he did' - everything's much easier when you don't actually have to explain how it actually happened or understand any of hte processes involved.

And explain life on earth: if Noah was only able to replenish all the animals on the earth with the offspring of the male and female of each species: then just how did every continent, even antarctica, become populated with animals that Noah never had access to?

And so on - so forth.

There isn't a single religiously-backed explanation for any of these things that simply doesn't make any sense other than 'well god did it!' :shrug:
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
Well: how does a flood explain fossils embeded in rocks on top of mountains that you have to dig into the soil and rock bed to find?

Fossils take more than a few thousand years to form when they're impacted into sedimentary rock. That takes pressure, mineralization and lithification. . .They're not just bone fragments trapped in hardened mud.

Further: What mountain range out there builds on itself? Two things happen: to be formed they're uplifted - something we can measure happening to mountain ranges like the Himalayas at present. if they've reduced in size that means they've eroded which exposes the earth/rock underneath.

If the great flood explains fossils on mountaintops then the only way this could be true is if 1) The entire earth flooded. 2) the flood then deposited fish (etc) 3) these fish (etc) were compressed into soil. 4) eventually these remnants fossilized (which means their biological matter was slowly 'replaced' with minerals as it decayed). 5) Layers and layers of soil and dirt were then deposited on top of said rock formation after they formed (because you have to excavate to find many of these fossils and break away rocks to expose them) - all while they were on top of a mountain.

Well - that's just not how things happen in nature. It is impossible - even if the flood did happen - for the flood to be an explanation for fossilization found atop mountains.

Rocks do not form at the peaks of mountains - and there is no way, other than man carrying mounds of soil, to the top of a mountain for a mountain to 'build' soil on top of said biological deposites. Moutain peaks do not grow like stalactites in a cave - they only have weatherization and erosion happening against them to reduce their size. The only way they grow is for them to be deposited by volcanic mass (which is not how the Himalayas formed) - and plate collision noted by the science of plate tectonics which has more than enough evidence ot speak for itself as a matter of scientific fact.

Of course the trained religious response is: 'with god anything's possible and if he wanted to instantly fossilize some fish on top of a mountain he did' - everything's much easier when you don't actually have to explain how it actually happened or understand any of hte processes involved.

And explain life on earth: if Noah was only able to replenish all the animals on the earth with the offspring of the male and female of each species: then just how did every continent, even antarctica, become populated with animals that Noah never had access to?

And so on - so forth.

There isn't a single religiously-backed explanation for any of these things that simply doesn't make any sense other than 'well god did it!' :shrug:
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Again, as I have said before, your science assumes everything exist now the same as it has always been when dating or coming to conclusions about the geology of the earth. And the Bible indicates that is not the case.

There is nothing to indicate how high the mountains were prior to the flood. Or that there were polar ice caps prior to the flood. Much of this probably was the result of the flood.

Well, scientific 'facts' are nothing but 'theory' at present. Till they learn somethig which disproves it, then they have another set of 'facts' to present.

Impossible? Didn't I say before that the flood of Noah is from God in every aspect. What makes you think I need to square the flood with your science? I don't. Science operates on incomplete knowledge. Thats how it works, which is why it has to always change its beliefs.

I don't have all the explainations for the flood. Because God didn't give them. He just gave the record that it occurred.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
There is no charade or deception. God created the earth and universe. He at times intervenes for various reasons miraculously to accomplish His will.

Well, he could have just made everyone fall dead. He could have killed Satan at the start and avoided it all. He could have never created Lucifer and avoided it all. He could have done a lot of things. But this is what He did.

Who said He is pretending? He is not. The Bible is clear.

Quantrill
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Pretending like the animals had to go into the ark to survive the floodwaters was a deception.

The LORD then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”
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The fish miraculously survived. As did blue Whales, Octopuses, etc... Clearly if God ever wiped these animals out to begin with, he just remade them immediately after and then wiped out all evidence of this mass extinction event. So the whole, take a male and female of every kind to "keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth" is a bunch of crock. It wouldn't even work. One queen bee and one male bee wouldn't keep the bees alive.

It would have been much more honest for God to say "I am going to keep a bunch of creatures alive with magic, and I am going to wipe out a bunch of other creatures and then remake them with magic. I want you to arbitrarily build an ark Because I said so.. The ark won't actually do anything since I will just be keeping y'all alive with magic, but I want you to build it anyway so that future generation can see the trust that you put in me."
 
If the flood took place as described in the Bible, how is it possible that civilisations in China, South America, and Africa didn't notice it happening? Their records span the time period with no mention of being underwater for a while
 
Panache said:
Pretending like the animals had to go into the ark to survive the floodwaters was a deception.



The fish miraculously survived. As did blue Whales, Octopuses, etc... Clearly if God ever wiped these animals out to begin with, he just remade them immediately after and then wiped out all evidence of this mass extinction event. So the whole, take a male and female of every kind to "keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth" is a bunch of crock. It wouldn't even work. One queen bee and one male bee wouldn't keep the bees alive.

It would have been much more honest for God to say "I am going to keep a bunch of creatures alive with magic, and I am going to wipe out a bunch of other creatures and then remake them with magic. I want you to arbitrarily build an ark Because I said so.. The ark won't actually do anything since I will just be keeping y'all alive with magic, but I want you to build it anyway so that future generation can see the trust that you put in me."
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Thats what the Bible says. And that is what I believe.

No, if God did it your way, He would have been a liar. He doesn't use 'magic'. He does all by His own power.

Quantrill
 
Manc Skipper said:
If the flood took place as described in the Bible, how is it possible that civilisations in China, South America, and Africa didn't notice it happening? Their records span the time period with no mention of being underwater for a while
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They did notice,...but then the water got chin high,.... and then they all drowned. Dead people keep poor records.

Quantrill
 
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