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What's wrong with birth control? [W:452]

Re: What's wrong with birth control?

No one, of course.

Are you attempting to compare having sex with birth control and vomiting out your food? That analogy just doesn't work.

When you're having sex with birth control, you're still fulfilling at least some of the purpose of sex. If you vomit your food on purpose, that doesn't fulfill any sort of a purpose.

Sure it does: pleasure. Bulimics get the pleasure of food without the natural end: digestion and nutrition. Couples who contracept get the pleasure of sex without the natural end: procreation.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Sure it does: pleasure. Bulimics get the pleasure of food without the natural end: digestion and nutrition. Couples who contracept get the pleasure of sex without the natural end: procreation.

Bulimia is a serious disease that leaves the victim emaciated and unhealthy.
Birth control has no such consequence.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Bulimia is a serious disease that leaves the victim emaciated and unhealthy.
Birth control has no such consequence.

It doesn't cause disease, no, but to say that it has no consequences is patently false. Since the introduction of contraception, we have soaring rates of infidelity, divorce, promiscuity, childbirth before marriage, and abortion. This is similar to gluttonous behavior, like people who cannot control their sexual appetites.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

It doesn't cause disease, no, but to say that it has no consequences is patently false. Since the introduction of contraception, we have soaring rates of infidelity, divorce, promiscuity, childbirth before marriage, and abortion. This is similar to gluttonous behavior, like people who cannot control their sexual appetites.

Now you're assuming a cause and effect relationship between a variety of things. The rates of infidelity and divorce are more likely caused by changes in social structure and the number of people being raised in single parent households or inside of unhappy marriages. Children learn what they live. Promiscuity could have birth control as a cause, as people perceive less of a consequence from such behavior. Childbirth before marriage and abortion would actually be more common without birth control.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Now you're assuming a cause and effect relationship between a variety of things. The rates of infidelity and divorce are more likely caused by changes in social structure and the number of people being raised in single parent households or inside of unhappy marriages. Children learn what they live.

And what are those caused by?

Promiscuity could have birth control as a cause, as people perceive less of a consequence from such behavior.

At least we agree on this.

Childbirth before marriage and abortion would actually be more common without birth control.

Except that's the exact opposite of what we see. When societies adopt contraception, we see soaring rates of abortion. Childbirth before marriage makes sense when you consider increased rates of promiscuity.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

And what are those caused by?



At least we agree on this.



Except that's the exact opposite of what we see. When societies adopt contraception, we see soaring rates of abortion. Childbirth before marriage makes sense when you consider increased rates of promiscuity.

Quite the opposite, really:

Abortion Rates Fall When Birth Control Is Free

Oct. 4, 2012 -- Abortions and unplanned pregnancies dropped dramatically in a new study when women and teenaged girls were provided birth control at no cost.

The women and girls were also more likely to choose IUDs or contraceptive implants when cost was not an issue.

Childbirth before marriage makes sense when there is a welfare state that pays to support single mothers.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

No. These are women who were already using contraception.

and it was more effective when it was free?

And since contraceptives do not work 100% and cause soaring promiscuity, we have seen that they result in soaring rates of childbirth outside of marriage.

and yet, when contraception is readily available, there are fewer unintended pregnancies and fewer abortions.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

and it was more effective when it was free?



and yet, when contraception is readily available, there are fewer unintended pregnancies and fewer abortions.

Are you choosing not to read what I'm writing? I'm comparing to before the contraceptive mentality sets in. You can't look at a country that's already contracepting and see with more available or cheaper contraception that abortion rates decrease. I agree with you about that. My issue is looking at before a country starts contracepting; that is, before the fertility rate starts to fall.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Are you choosing not to read what I'm writing? I'm comparing to before the contraceptive mentality sets in. You can't look at a country that's already contracepting and see with more available or cheaper contraception that abortion rates decrease. I agree with you about that. My issue is looking at before a country starts contracepting; that is, before the fertility rate starts to fall.

So, you want to go back to the good old days before there was any birth control, back when condoms came with a note that said, "For the prevention of disease only"?

How many unintended pregnancies there were back then, we have no way of knowing. I can remember several girls from high school who were pregnant at graduation (1960), but that's just anecdotal. I'm not sure how we'd know how many abortions there were back in those good old days, either, as the practice was illegal. Society has changed a lot since then for sure. If you got a girl pregnant back then, you were expected to marry her, and most young men did.

It's pretty hard to sort out the changes that have happened due to birth control being available and just cultural changes that have taken place in the past half century or so. The fact of the matter now is that birth control has been invented, and that the statistics are quite clear that the availability of birth control brings down abortions and teen pregnancies.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

So, you want to go back to the good old days before there was any birth control, back when condoms came with a note that said, "For the prevention of disease only"?

How many unintended pregnancies there were back then, we have no way of knowing. I can remember several girls from high school who were pregnant at graduation (1960), but that's just anecdotal. I'm not sure how we'd know how many abortions there were back in those good old days, either, as the practice was illegal. Society has changed a lot since then for sure. If you got a girl pregnant back then, you were expected to marry her, and most young men did.

And how much better that system was for the children! Instead we have single parents raising children which is an awful situation for everyone. And it happens today far more often than it did in the past.

teenpregnancy1.gif


So sure, pregnancy rates may be falling overall, but that's likely due to people getting married older and older today. That rate of unwed pregnancy is deeply troubling. That's caused purely by promiscuity, which is encouraged by contraceptives.

It's pretty hard to sort out the changes that have happened due to birth control being available and just cultural changes that have taken place in the past half century or so. The fact of the matter now is that birth control has been invented, and that the statistics are quite clear that the availability of birth control brings down abortions and teen pregnancies.

How do you separate out pregnancies in marriage? Teenagers got married more often in the past than they do today.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

And how much better that system was for the children! Instead we have single parents raising children which is an awful situation for everyone. And it happens today far more often than it did in the past.

teenpregnancy1.gif


So sure, pregnancy rates may be falling overall, but that's likely due to people getting married older and older today. That rate of unwed pregnancy is deeply troubling. That's caused purely by promiscuity, which is encouraged by contraceptives.



How do you separate out pregnancies in marriage? Teenagers got married more often in the past than they do today.

Yes, they did, and a lot of them were female. The women/girls had to have a man to take care of them in those good old days, as they couldn't get a job that would pay enough to raise a family.

Ever hear the old saw about not needing to buy the cow if you can get the milk for free? Doesn't that demonstrate the sort of relationship that existed back when the only way to have sex was to keep and take care of a woman?
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Yes, they did, and a lot of them were female. The women/girls had to have a man to take care of them in those good old days, as they couldn't get a job that would pay enough to raise a family.

Ever hear the old saw about not needing to buy the cow if you can get the milk for free? Doesn't that demonstrate the sort of relationship that existed back when the only way to have sex was to keep and take care of a woman?

So what's the point you're making now? I couldn't extract it from your mess of a post.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

So what's the point you're making now? I couldn't extract it from your mess of a post.

That a lot of things have changed in the past half century or so, not just the availability of birth control. There is no way to establish a cause and effect between birth control, teen pregnancies, abortion, or anything like that.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

That a lot of things have changed in the past half century or so, not just the availability of birth control. There is no way to establish a cause and effect between birth control, teen pregnancies, abortion, or anything like that.

A contraceptive mentality raises the idea that you can have sex without consequences. Thus, you have sex with no intention to have a baby or take care of a baby. When you inevitably get pregnant (because no contraception works 100%), you are now left with an unwanted pregnancy, thus more likely to have an abortion.

What else would you attribute the rise in teen promiscuity to besides the idea of sex without consequences?
 
I am lost on this - I know what the Catholic Church says 'about it' - but that doesn't explain *what* is actually wrong with using birth control to not get pregnant until you're ready when married.

Explain - in ways the Church hasn't tried to.

Do Catholics all agree with the Church's view are are there those who are Catholics who still use birth control eventhough they're told not to?

How does the Catholic Church view these parisioners who go against their 'authority' on the matter?

51 pages and the simple answer is that the church believes the only reason to have sex is to make babies. If you're doing it just for fun you're sinning.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

A contraceptive mentality raises the idea that you can have sex without consequences. Thus, you have sex with no intention to have a baby or take care of a baby. When you inevitably get pregnant (because no contraception works 100%), you are now left with an unwanted pregnancy, thus more likely to have an abortion.

What else would you attribute the rise in teen promiscuity to besides the idea of sex without consequences?

Maybe the crap they see on TV.
Maybe the morals of their parents.

More likely the former.
 
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