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Isn't god supposed to be perfect?

Jerry said:
I've never been worried about it. God is who God is, all I can to is decide what my attitude will be.
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it does seem to be an odd question. "what are the limits of the limitless?" in a way...
 
Well...since i think "God" is a construct of man I have absolutely no quandry as to his supposed perfection. Honestly, I think the Greeks were pretty smart when they decided that their gods were merely immortal pranksters who liked to interfere with human life for their own pleasure. If you're going to use God to explain away the unexplainable it's a lot easier to live life without "why" if you've already decided that God isn't "perfect".

What happens, though, is we decide God is perfect, and then we have to spend much of our time trying to figure out the "why", "how", and create justifications for the things that happen to us and around us. And then we spin it into a "test", a "challenge", or an attempt by "the devil" to shake our faith.

Maybe it's my cynic nature or maybe it's my control freak side, but either way I find absolutely no appeal in taking part in some game that god and satan are playing in which I'm nothing more than a pawn. That seems like a pretty crap existence, IMO.
 
Something for the faithful and atheists combined to ponder, God created life for the lifetimes to maintain themselves. Not take care of each sole result.
there is your answer to free will and vernacular devils in the mist collecting soles buying a ticket to character soul salvation of being directed from understanding one's self.
 
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It would be like asking my dogs if I was perfect. If they could talk I'd imagine they'd say, "Compared to what? Do I always get my way? No. Does he love us? No question about that? He can do miracles and all kinds of stuff. He's awesome."

Dogs are great but they have a limited view.

What's the definition of perfect? Whose definition is that?

What's the definition of God? No one can agree on that.

Humans are great but they have a limited view.
 
Risky Thicket said:
It would be like asking my dogs if I was perfect. If they could talk I'd imagine they'd say, "Compared to what? Do I always get my way? No. Does he love us? No question about that? He can do miracles and all kinds of stuff. He's awesome."

Dogs are great but they have a limited view.

What's the definition of perfect? Whose definition is that?

What's the definition of God? No one can agree on that.

Humans are great but they have a limited view.
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but the view is line of sight, but the ability to comprehend the whole moment is something no other species can translate being understood individually, recognized intellectually or not. Knowing is understanding, knowledge is just recited interpretation. What does a body know knowledge never lets them see?
 
OneMale said:
but the view is line of sight, but the ability to comprehend the whole moment is something no other species can translate being understood individually, recognized intellectually or not. Knowing is understanding, knowledge is just recited interpretation. What does a body know knowledge never lets them see?
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The concept of God is beyond our comprehension, if you believe that "God" is ALL and I do. Even to think of the concept is limiting. ALL is a comparison and thus must have something to which ALL is compared. It is thus limited.

The body is simply a vehicle for the spirit in this incarnation. When I meditate I learn to listen. Being in the whole moment is difficult for most of us. It takes great practice or suddenly it can happen for a brief period without explanation.

I once experienced kensho (a brief insight into my true nature or buddha-nature). I was not a Buddhist at the time. I wasn't even religious at the time. When it happen I was stunned by the experience and the understanding. The experience cannot be articulated. At the moment I understood, I knew, those aren't good words, I was truly at one with all things. It was seamless. No parts, no distinction, ALL. What I can tell you is the "knowledge" is there for everyone.

Meditation is my way of listening. There are many ways. Though I have had a brief second or two during meditation where I am close, I think, I have never been able to experience kensho again.
 
Risky Thicket said:
The concept of God is beyond our comprehension,QUOTE]

Beyond your comprehension. There is no I in team any more than we to my responsibility to understand real without reality telling me I cannot see the self evident myself.
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Chaz said:
This is a question I have always wondered when thinking about any religions stories regardign their god. It is always said that god is a perfect being flawless, just, kind and whatever else the person who thinks of god that he/she would consider perfect. Yet in the stories found in texts such as the bible why is it god is always portrayed as angry and spiteful? He does not hesistate to inflict harm on others who disobey him, he smites cities and floods the world if he does not like where things are going and he crashes towns to the ground and confuses the languages of man because he did not like the fact they were united in one area. Yet at the same time people say the reason god does not cure the ailments of man (war, hunger, disease, etc) is because he does not want to interfere with us mortals whenever.
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Well, I don't believe that god of the bible is the same being that created the universe. Particularly in the garden of Eden it seems very clear in the descriptions that "god" was/ were a physical being(s).

I recall one story I believe is of jewish origins; the story of job. In a nutshell god made a bet with satan that a man called job (who always prayed to him) would remain faithful to him regardless of the situation he was in (job at the time had a wonderfully comfortable life with a wife, kids, farm and a horde of animals) so in order to prove this job's wife and children were killed, his crops destroyed, his animals butchered and he was diseased with terrible conditions that cause great pain to him. Yeah, all this happened. Just to prove a point., to SATAN. Well in the end of the story we are relieved to find that after all this job was eventually cured when he proved his faith (after a LONG period of time in which he lost everything including his friends; who thought the reason for his ailments was because he did not worship god when he did or something like that) and yay! he got a brand new family, farm and life that was twice as good as his first!

Seriously? This is supposed to be a happy ending? God let this man suffer to prove a point in a petty bet as as show of pride and let innocent people suffer in order to do it; andwe are supposed to be happy because his new life was twice as good in the end?
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Life is all about tests and challenges, If we still lived in the utopian garden of Eden, there would be no need for growth, no need to evolve and become better and worse, we would eventually become weak and decadent and we would then eventually allow this garden to fall apart.

But then, when you push through the challenges of life, you get the greatest rewards imaginable, even if it cost you everything in the process.

I don't know about you guys but to me all of the examples I have listed seem to do nothing but prove god is not merciful, kind and just but rather mean, hateful, arrogant and spiteful and unjust (he let innocent people die and suffer to prove a point; how is that just?). So please someone explain to me how this god is meant to be portrayed as perfect? It seems to me that...
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I'm not sure how the apparent spiteful nature of god takes away from perfection... Perhaps this perfection also contains a greater wisdom, where allowing this duality between good and evil guided with a greater wisdom which would then challenge humanity to evolve to the next level.

A: God is not perfect
B: God is perfect but the stories being written by man are not accurate to gods true nature.
C: God doesn't exist and the reason he is flawed is because the people who created the idea of him were also flawed.

If I missed soemthing I would love it if someone would let me know; because all I know as of yet is if the god people claim to be perfect and the god who allows all this harm to be inflicted are supposed to be the same, then the world has a seriously scary view of perfection and justice.
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Well, if I understood gods plans, then I would be better suited to respond.
 
Risky Thicket said:
OneMale said:
yeah...sure...whatever :unsure13:
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whatever....sure....yes. but you did use the correct emotican as your character representative as unsure. Shame that is since real is self contained, self maintaining, and self evident outside reciting generations of theory and theology that character matters.

that being a part of just being here now. God beyond the metaphor.
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Marcionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a good read on OT God vs NT God....
what we know about God is what men of ancient times have told us...in the bible. And the bible is a COLLECTION of works by many authors. It is hard enough to comprehend the teachings of one person and even harder when we are getting our info from many who do not always agree with each other.
IMO, if we are to believe that the OT and NT gods are the same being, then the Jews misrepresented God for whatever reasons, and Jesus was sent by God to unravel the false teachings about him, at least in part.
Certainly the Jewish faith was used to gather the tribes and make one powerful entity in the middle east. Isn't it likely that some liberties were taken by the Jewish leaders? Would they do that? Would Republicans? or Democrats? It isn't just religion involved here, it is power of government as well.
 
Rosie1 said:
Wow, Onemale, that's the shortest, clearest thing you've every posted. I actually comprehend what you said, and I agree. We were always taught that the Hebrew God and the Christian God were one and the same. God changed and became forgiving/benevolant. Because of that he sent Jesus. In actuality he came as Jesus. It's very confusing to take that all in for those who aren't Christians. Yes, Christians believe in only one God, who can manifest himself as (God/Jesus/or Holy Ghost).
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God never changed. The attributes of God in the old testament are exactly the same as Jesus attributes in the new testament. God was forgiving/benevolent in the old testament as well. For some reason we see Jesus as a lot nicer than old testament God. The word merciful is used to describe God in the old testament many more times than it is used in the new in fact.
 
Chaz said:
This is a question I have always wondered when thinking about any religions stories regardign their god. It is always said that god is a perfect being flawless, just, kind and whatever else the person who thinks of god that he/she would consider perfect. Yet in the stories found in texts such as the bible why is it god is always portrayed as angry and spiteful? He does not hesistate to inflict harm on others who disobey him, he smites cities and floods the world if he does not like where things are going and he crashes towns to the ground and confuses the languages of man because he did not like the fact they were united in one area. Yet at the same time people say the reason god does not cure the ailments of man (war, hunger, disease, etc) is because he does not want to interfere with us mortals whenever.

I recall one story I believe is of jewish origins; the story of job. In a nutshell god made a bet with satan that a man called job (who always prayed to him) would remain faithful to him regardless of the situation he was in (job at the time had a wonderfully comfortable life with a wife, kids, farm and a horde of animals) so in order to prove this job's wife and children were killed, his crops destroyed, his animals butchered and he was diseased with terrible conditions that cause great pain to him. Yeah, all this happened. Just to prove a point., to SATAN. Well in the end of the story we are relieved to find that after all this job was eventually cured when he proved his faith (after a LONG period of time in which he lost everything including his friends; who thought the reason for his ailments was because he did not worship god when he did or something like that) and yay! he got a brand new family, farm and life that was twice as good as his first!

Seriously? This is supposed to be a happy ending? God let this man suffer to prove a point in a petty bet as as show of pride and let innocent people suffer in order to do it; andwe are supposed to be happy because his new life was twice as good in the end?

I don't know about you guys but to me all of the examples I have listed seem to do nothing but prove god is not merciful, kind and just but rather mean, hateful, arrogant and spiteful and unjust (he let innocent people die and suffer to prove a point; how is that just?). So please someone explain to me how this god is meant to be portrayed as perfect? It seems to me that...

A: God is not perfect
B: God is perfect but the stories being written by man are not accurate to gods true nature.
C: God doesn't exist and the reason he is flawed is because the people who created the idea of him were also flawed.

If I missed soemthing I would love it if someone would let me know; because all I know as of yet is if the god people claim to be perfect and the god who allows all this harm to be inflicted are supposed to be the same, then the world has a seriously scary view of perfection and justice.
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Being angry is sometimes justified.

It wasn't a bet and God himself wasn't inflicting the harm, he was allowing Satan to. And IIRC, Job's wife survived.

No one, not even a relatively virtuous man like Job, absolutely deserves a family or a good livelihood in the eyes of God, so it was not unjust for God to allow it, and it worked to a greater good, probably spiritual.

No one is innocent in God's eyes, we are all stained with original sin.

God is perfect, and his wisdom is infinite.

God works towards mankind's ultimate good.
 
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