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Thread: Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

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    Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

    The protesting Islamists, from the hardline Tehreek-i-Labaik Ya Rasool Allah Party, want the law minister to be sacked for omitting a reference to the Prophet Muhammad in a new version of the electoral oath.
    The minister has since apologised saying it was a clerical error.

    Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad - BBC News

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    Re: Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    The protesting Islamists, from the hardline Tehreek-i-Labaik Ya Rasool Allah Party, want the law minister to be sacked for omitting a reference to the Prophet Muhammad in a new version of the electoral oath.
    The minister has since apologised saying it was a clerical error.

    Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad - BBC News
    I didn't see an estimate of the number of protesters, but if 8,500 troops were needed, there must have been quite a mob. Anyway folks, nothing to see here. Just ordinary peace-loving people like you and me. They're just trying to live their lives, put food on the table like the rest of us. They're not interested in forcing their religion on anybody. Move along.
    See something, say something, get called an Islamophobe.

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    Re: Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

    Quote Originally Posted by stevecanuck View Post
    I didn't see an estimate of the number of protesters, but if 8,500 troops were needed, there must have been quite a mob. Anyway folks, nothing to see here. Just ordinary peace-loving people like you and me. They're just trying to live their lives, put food on the table like the rest of us. They're not interested in forcing their religion on anybody. Move along.
    Obviously, we are witnesses to a turning point in human cultural evolution, where the myths of the past are at odds with the promise of a secular ( not "atheist, right wing imbeciles) future. I think that the realization is setting in with various brands of magical thinkers that their subjective superstitiins are no longer immune from criticism. The internet's free market of ideas has made it much more difficult for ideologies like Islam and Christianity to avoid the threat that freedom of conscience poses to the perpetuation of dogma. The old, tried and true, method of using violence to insist a lie into being is losing its effectiveness.

    Religions like Islam are products of the past that will either change or fade out of relevance. In fact, it is their violent temper tantrums that have given them ANY advantage but that advantage has become a liability. Most people are tired of having to pretend that dumb **** is spirituality. It offers nothing to the future of our kind. We will never cure cancer with religion, never solve our energy crisis and never provide an answer to any of the existential threats to humanity and they know it.

    Religion remains useful only as a sedative for the anxiety ridden and little else. As the true list of pros and cons is considered, the benefits of a magical worldview will prove themselves to be an expensive placebo rather than a valuable weapon against human weakness. I welcome this war of ideas for, as they say, the truth will set you free.

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    Re: Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

    Quote Originally Posted by D_NATURED View Post
    Obviously, we are witnesses to a turning point in human cultural evolution, where the myths of the past are at odds with the promise of a secular ( not "atheist", right wing imbeciles) future. I think that the realization is setting in with various brands of magical thinkers that their subjective superstitions are no longer immune from criticism.
    Hence the violent, over-the-top, response. The promulgation of critical, independent thought is Islam's greatest threat, and it MUST be stopped. Some do it with threats and violence, while others such as Canada's Iqra Khalid, try to use the rule of law. They invent something called "Islamophobia", and then try to outlaw it because it "promotes potentially violent negativity towards an identifiable group (ie: Muslims)". Forget that the Qur'an calls for the outright subjugation of infidels. That fact must never be mentioned because pointing it out is "hateful".

    Opps, hit the send button by mistake.
    See something, say something, get called an Islamophobe.

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    Re: Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

    Quote Originally Posted by stevecanuck View Post
    Hence the violent, over-the-top, response. The promulgation of critical, independent thought is Islam's greatest threat, and it MUST be stopped. Some do it with threats and violence, while others such as Canada's Iqra Khalid, try to use the rule of law. They invent something called "Islamophobia", and then try to outlaw it because it "promotes potentially violent negativity towards an identifiable group (ie: Muslims)". Forget that the Qur'an calls for the outright subjugation of infidels. That fact must never be mentioned because pointing it out is "hateful".

    Opps, hit the send button by mistake.
    I agree that we are not wise to subscribe to the muslim victimhood paradigm. Making the criticism of a subjective superstition a form of hate speech or something is profoundly stupid. I understand the desire to confront bigotry but the critics of religion, in general, are not bigots. Religions, despite their being cherished traditions for many, have existed for far too long without any responsibility to make sense. As your mention of the Koran's attitude toward "infidels" implies, there are enough excuses for violence that anyone could need to act out violently for god. Until we confront the reality of Islam, and EVERY other manifestation of magical thinking, labels like "Islamophobe" will seem a silly defense of a toxic tradition.

    The answer, I think, is for opponents of Islam to also oppose other forms of spiritual retardation. It can't be a one-way street. We must, somehow, abandon the false assumption that believing in supernature is a credential of morality. It can't possibly be that, as morality is a thought process, not a tradition or a commandment. Now, I realize that we have evolved to rely on make believe when our reality is too much for us to bear but the irony of organized make believe being what makes our shared reality intolerable is an unforeseen twist.

    The answer is to encourage a more personal spirituality and cease to empower organizations built upon fantasies to have a place at the table where a human future is planned. They are anachronisms who contribute nothing to our species and, in fact, are responsible for much of our past crimes. Let no idea, no matter how long in the making, no matter how entrenched in various cultures, exist unchallenged. Even if they call us islamophobes or christophobes, there must be no idea, no story and no person that is above honest scrutiny.

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    Re: Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

    Quote Originally Posted by D_NATURED View Post
    The internet's free market of ideas has made it much more difficult for ideologies like Islam and Christianity to avoid the threat that freedom of conscience poses to the perpetuation of dogma.
    Further to the above, I see the internet affecting Islam in 3 ways:

    1. It gives the faithful a world-wide audience to preach to. In that regard it helps promulgate dogma.
    2. It gives doubting Muslims a chance to listen to dissenting voices, both within Islam and without.
    3. It gives us infidel pig-dogs a way of exposing Islamic scripture and history for the ****-show that it is. Of course we have to endure the scorn of not only Muslims, but of their useful idiot apologists. But it's worth it. No number of ad hominem attacks will stop me from using the Qur'an to explain the atrocities committed by that segment of Islam that wants to return to the glory and gory days of the 7th century.

    ...As the true list of pros and cons is considered...
    .....doing so will be called Islamophobia (hence my signature).
    See something, say something, get called an Islamophobe.

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    Re: Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

    Quote Originally Posted by stevecanuck View Post
    Further to the above, I see the internet affecting Islam in 3 ways:

    1. It gives the faithful a world-wide audience to preach to. In that regard it helps promulgate dogma.
    2. It gives doubting Muslims a chance to listen to dissenting voices, both within Islam and without.
    3. It gives us infidel pig-dogs a way of exposing Islamic scripture and history for the ****-show that it is. Of course we have to endure the scorn of not only Muslims, but of their useful idiot apologists. But it's worth it. No number of ad hominem attacks will stop me from using the Qur'an to explain the atrocities committed by that segment of Islam that wants to return to the glory and gory days of the 7th century.



    .....doing so will be called Islamophobia (hence my signature).
    Yeah, I was called an Islamophobe by an acquaintance once. It is, apparently, considered bad form to talk about the reality of Islam.

    The way I see it, it's fair to define organizations based upon what they do. Islam is not a charity or a knowledge seeking endeavor, it's a propaganda engine for middle eastern based spiritual dogma, nothing more. Why is it wrong to say that? I think it's because it reduces their magical worldview to a very human one. It's the same reason that many christians refuse to believe in evolution, it takes their magic story away.

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    Re: Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

    Oh please........have you been to Pakistan?

    Extremist Islam is the mainstream islam there...........and in many of the nations of that region.

    Mainstream Islam there today is where The Catholic church was during the Inquisition.

    It has nothing to do with "religion" and everything to do with old men fearing the loss of power.

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    Re: Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bum View Post
    Oh please........have you been to Pakistan?

    Extremist Islam is the mainstream islam there...........and in many of the nations of that region.

    Mainstream Islam there today is where The Catholic church was during the Inquisition.

    It has nothing to do with "religion" and everything to do with old men fearing the loss of power.
    I disagree. I realize it would be great for a lot of people if the glaringly obvious religious component to Islamic extremism were just unanimously ignored, but I can't. The religious connection is the absolute ease with which magical god can excuse any behavior or irrational thought. When you compound that fact with the actual words of the Koran, to then pretend that religion, the organization defined by the book, has "nothing to do with" it, makes me feel like I'm being treated like a rube.

    I try not to think ill of people without reason. I have found sufficient violence, misogyny and anti-intellectualism in Islam that I question the proponents of it. Islam is the past, desperately trying to stay relevant in a world that has seen a correlation between material success and the abandonment of theocracy, not just religion. There are as many young men as old fighting to suppress progress, to my great dismay.

    I do not argue that every Muslim is unworthy of this modern world, that is, ultimately, THEIR argument. It is the nature of certain religions that they oppose even positive changes that don't comport with their pre-conceived spiritual identity. The long, slow, cruel struggle toward marriage rights for gay people was a prime example. Religion works as hard to oppress others as it does to liberate itself. I've never been to Pakistan but they are not the only country where fanatics are demanding the special right to act against the interests of the nations where they live, all in the name of religion.

    Religion fuels the fire, it isn't the fire. Yet, we humans must be vigilant against our potential for allowing our righteous desires to become instigations to murder. In that regard, Islam is failing and so is Christianity.

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    Re: Pakistan army called on to stop 'blasphemy' clashes in Islamabad

    Quote Originally Posted by D_NATURED View Post

    Religion fuels the fire, it isn't the fire.
    And here we diverge. The one thing that the secular West just can't seem to wrap it's collective head around is that for devout Muslims, it very much IS all about their religion.
    See something, say something, get called an Islamophobe.

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