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Un-religious UK

Tim the plumber

Tim the plumber

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More than 60% of Brits under 65 say religion does ?more harm than good? - National Secular Society

More than 60% of Brits under 65 say religion does “more harm than good”
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The polling firm Ipsos asked people aged 16-64 in 23 countries a series of questions about their attitudes to religion. In Great Britain, 62% of people agreed with the statement 'religion does more harm in the world than good'.

That was the joint-fifth highest figure in response to that statement. The figure was highest in Belgium, where 68% of respondents agreed. Across the countries surveyed, 49% of respondents agreed. Most of the countries with the highest figures were in Western Europe, along with India and Australia.
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I'm surprised at India.
 
85% of 16-64 years old Indians say that they are completely comfortable being around people with different religious beliefs than theirs,
but then 46% of the same group say they lose their respect for people when they learn they're not religious?
How does that make any sense to them?
 
Apocalypse said:
85% of 16-64 years old Indians say that they are completely comfortable being around people with different religious beliefs than theirs,
but then 46% of the same group say they lose their respect for people when they learn they're not religious?
How does that make any sense to them?
Click to expand...
With exception of Turkey I see no Muslim country listed (probably just as well) but I suspect a similarity in the M.E. at least, even where there are no figures to compare and even where they probably wouldn't compare anyway, if we had some.

As such (just anecdotally) I've found Muslims to have far greater problems (mildly put) with "godlessness" than with somebody being something other than they, but nevertheless "of the book".

And where India has a sizeable Muslim population, the Hindu majority sees the issue of godlessness little different.

Sense?

In the same context as belief, not much room for it.
 
Chagos said:
With exception of Turkey I see no Muslim country listed (probably just as well) but I suspect a similarity in the M.E. at least, even where there are no figures to compare and even where they probably wouldn't compare anyway, if we had some.

As such (just anecdotally) I've found Muslims to have far greater problems (mildly put) with "godlessness" than with somebody being something other than they, but nevertheless "of the book".

And where India has a sizeable Muslim population, the Hindu majority sees the issue of godlessness little different.

Sense?

In the same context as belief, not much room for it.
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Perhaps they're just afraid of people who can live their lives without fearing some God, any God.
 
Apocalypse said:
Perhaps they're just afraid of people who can live their lives without fearing some God, any God.
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and that "the disease" could be spread.

Godlessness clearly showing the devil to be at work.
 
Chagos said:
As such (just anecdotally) I've found Muslims to have far greater problems (mildly put) with "godlessness" than with somebody being something other than they, but nevertheless "of the book".
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On my work visa application for Egypt, I wrote "none" in the religion box. It came back with that scratched out and replaced with "Christian".
 
Tim the plumber said:
More than 60% of Brits under 65 say religion does ?more harm than good? - National Secular Society





I'm surprised at India.
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What's this 'under 65' nonsense? Rank ageism!

As far as I know 100% of those on Debate Politics who are over 80 think religion does more harm than good. Anyone disagree?

I'm not so surprised about India. Its peoples have had, over the generations, many examples of the bad consequences of religious fanaticism. And they have the horrible example of Pakistan net door.
 
stevecanuck said:
On my work visa application for Egypt, I wrote "none" in the religion box. It came back with that scratched out and replaced with "Christian".
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Yeah, the concept of being without any religion whatsoever is so alien to them, they wind up thinking there must be some mistake.

I generally kept mum about it so as not to cause unnecessary ripples, but on the odd occasion (early on in my M.E. capers when I knew no better) where I felt clarification to be necessary, the listener was clearly torn between utter disbelief and, depending on nature of education and level, calling a shrink or an exorcist on account of my being either mental or possessed by a jinn.

Which in that peculiar (to us) view of the world amounts to the same thing.

I quit the explanation soon after, seeing that it would bar me from any social contact whatsoever.

I was also a Frank, never mind what specific country I hailed from. But got them to concede that there are different tribes of Franks.:mrgreen:
 
Sweden said:
What's this 'under 65' nonsense? Rank ageism!

As far as I know 100% of those on Debate Politics who are over 80 think religion does more harm than good. Anyone disagree?

I'm not so surprised about India. Its peoples have had, over the generations, many examples of the bad consequences of religious fanaticism. And they have the horrible example of Pakistan net door.
Click to expand...

The point of the age thing is to show how the direction of debate will go in the future.
 
Apocalypse said:
85% of 16-64 years old Indians say that they are completely comfortable being around people with different religious beliefs than theirs,
but then 46% of the same group say they lose their respect for people when they learn they're not religious?
How does that make any sense to them?
Click to expand...

At least one of the survays is bogus.

Either in metodology or just plain lying.
 
stevecanuck said:
On my work visa application for Egypt, I wrote "none" in the religion box. It came back with that scratched out and replaced with "Christian".
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Do you think the Egyptians did it or the Canadians? Why is "Christian" less threatening than "none"?

BTW, I think the answer to the second question goes deep in to what is wrong with religion in the first place, in the US and elsewhere. It seems like addicts are satisfied if you're also addicted to something, even if it's not the same drug they prefer. Who they can't trust is someone who abstains.
 
Apocalypse said:
85% of 16-64 years old Indians say that they are completely comfortable being around people with different religious beliefs than theirs,
but then 46% of the same group say they lose their respect for people when they learn they're not religious?
How does that make any sense to them?
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How does the occupation of others while claiming to yearn for peace make any sense to Israelis?
 
D_NATURED said:
Do you think the Egyptians did it or the Canadians? Why is "Christian" less threatening than "none"?

BTW, I think the answer to the second question goes deep in to what is wrong with religion in the first place, in the US and elsewhere. It seems like addicts are satisfied if you're also addicted to something, even if it's not the same drug they prefer. Who they can't trust is someone who abstains.
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I do believe you answered your own question correctly.:)
 
Fenton Lum said:
How does the occupation of others while claiming to yearn for peace make any sense to Israelis?
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How does your one sided opinion make any sense? How many terrorist groups have initiated conflict between the Palestinians and Israeli's?
 
Fenton Lum said:
How does the occupation of others while claiming to yearn for peace make any sense to Israelis?
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RetiredUSN said:
How does your one sided opinion make any sense? How many terrorist groups have initiated conflict between the Palestinians and Israeli's?
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Moderator's Warning:
The only appropriate forum to discuss the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the I/P forum. Further discussion of it here could result in moderator action.
 
Religion DOES more harm than good. No doubt about it. Read Matthew 23.
Jesus Christ is the ONLY answer. He was crucified for you and I by the religious.
 
Apocalypse said:
85% of 16-64 years old Indians say that they are completely comfortable being around people with different religious beliefs than theirs,
but then 46% of the same group say they lose their respect for people when they learn they're not religious?
How does that make any sense to them?
Click to expand...
WHy does that seem inconsistent to you? Without regard to the 'right' or 'wrong' of their opinions...85% are comfortable around other people with different religions. OK...check. only 15% would be uncomfortable around people that dont share their specific religious belief. Now...

46% say they lose RESPECT for people that arent religious at all. Doesnt impact whether or not they are comfortable being around them. It just means they lose respect for them.

So how is that inconsistent?
 
VanceMack said:
WHy does that seem inconsistent to you? Without regard to the 'right' or 'wrong' of their opinions...85% are comfortable around other people with different religions. OK...check. only 15% would be uncomfortable around people that dont share their specific religious belief. Now...

46% say they lose RESPECT for people that arent religious at all. Doesnt impact whether or not they are comfortable being around them. It just means they lose respect for them.

So how is that inconsistent?
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The assumption is that declaring yourself as being comfortable around people with a certain opinion is not compatible with declaring that you have no respect for those people for having these opinions.

For example "I am absolutely comfortable being around people who like orange juice" followed by "I have absolutely no respect for people who like orange juice" would make no sense at all.

It's not like you say "I don't agree with them but I'm comfortable being around them" which makes sense, it's actually "I have no respect for them".
You can be comfortable around people you don't agree with, it's less logical to be comfortable around people you simply have no respect for.
Having no respect at all for someone means a negative attitude towards that person.

Hopefully that clarifies.
 
Apocalypse said:
The assumption is that declaring yourself as being comfortable around people with a certain opinion is not compatible with declaring that you have no respect for those people for having these opinions.

For example "I am absolutely comfortable being around people who like orange juice" followed by "I have absolutely no respect for people who like orange juice" would make no sense at all.

It's not like you say "I don't agree with them but I'm comfortable being around them" which makes sense, it's actually "I have no respect for them".
You can be comfortable around people you don't agree with, it's less logical to be comfortable around people you simply have no respect for.
Having no respect at all for someone means a negative attitude towards that person.

Hopefully that clarifies.
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Woah. To my knowledge it didnt say they had NO respect...they just said that they LOST respect for them. Respect is something that can be held in degrees...its not an all or nothing thing.

I Fully respect people that profess a belief system and live their belief system. I fully respect agnostics...people that pretty much dont know, dont care about the whole God thing. I have lesser respect for people that profess a religious belief but deliberately live in opposition to their belief systems. And I similarly have lesser respect for self declared 'atheists'. Not 'no' respect...just lesser respect.
 
VanceMack said:
Woah. To my knowledge it didnt say they had NO respect...they just said that they LOST respect for them. Respect is something that can be held in degrees...its not an all or nothing thing.

I Fully respect people that profess a belief system and live their belief system. I fully respect agnostics...people that pretty much dont know, dont care about the whole God thing. I have lesser respect for people that profess a religious belief but deliberately live in opposition to their belief systems. And I similarly have lesser respect for self declared 'atheists'. Not 'no' respect...just lesser respect.
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Again, the assumption is that they have a certain level of respect for anyone that they know nothing about and then when they find that the person's religious belief is X (in this case X is atheism) they immediately lose that respect for that person and thus have no respect for him. Meaning the respect they would have for the person is gone because they find he is an atheist.

We're not talking about people that they are familiar with and suddenly learn one day that they are atheists and all the respect they've built up for them through the time knowing them fades to the same level of respect you'd have for a person that you don't know.
 
Apocalypse said:
Again, the assumption is that they have a certain level of respect for anyone that they know nothing about and then when they find that the person's religious belief is X (in this case X is atheism) they immediately lose that respect for that person and thus have no respect for him. Meaning the respect they would have for the person is gone because they find he is an atheist.

We're not talking about people that they are familiar with and suddenly learn one day that they are atheists and all the respect they've built up for them through the time knowing them fades to the same level of respect you'd have for a person that you don't know.
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Its just an ideological belief. I think your problem is that you are taking their perceptions as a personal slight.
 
VanceMack said:
Its just an ideological belief. I think your problem is that you are taking their perceptions as a personal slight.
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I'm just saying it doesn't make any sense that the same people who say they are comfortable around people of all religious beliefs say at the same time that they lose respect for people they learn are atheists.
Their internal logic is flawed as one would expect from people who judge others based on whether they believe in a God or not.
 
Apocalypse said:
I'm just saying it doesn't make any sense that the same people who say they are comfortable around people of all religious beliefs say at the same time that they lose respect for people they learn are atheists.
Their internal logic is flawed as one would expect from people who judge others based on whether they believe in a God or not.
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It makes perfect sense. You just cant see it because you are taking it personally. "Oh...****...they mean ME!!!"
 
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