• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

It is time theists, give it up.

zyzygy said:
Do all of the 49 percent attend church weekly? Or is it a cultural label?

In New Zealand church attendance has never been particularly high, with the 1881 census indicating approximately 20% of the population attended church. In 1911 active membership in the Anglican and Catholic churches was about 12%. As they accounted for slightly more than half of church affiliation at that time it would indicate that attendance was still at around 20% for all churches combined. By the 1960s it was probably still at a similar level, but by the end of the century had declined to about 10%. The United States has presented a somewhat different picture with an increase in attendance from about 40% in 1860 to 58% in 1958. However by 1972 this had declined to about 40% a figure which has since remained relatively stable. What is common across all western countries though is that since the middle of the 1960s the mainline Protestant denominations have seen significant declines in numbers involved.


Religion in a Postaquarian Age | Presbyterian Church of Aotearoa New Zealand
Click to expand...

In fact, I've started seeing churches go out of business relatively frequently of late. A couple of years ago, I was looking for some local real estate and found four churches in my small town alone that went bankrupt and closed the doors in just the month or so I was looking. These places can't keep butts in the pews. Religion is dying a sad and pathetic death and that's a good thing.
 
Cephus said:
In fact, I've started seeing churches go out of business relatively frequently of late. A couple of years ago, I was looking for some local real estate and found four churches in my small town alone that went bankrupt and closed the doors in just the month or so I was looking. These places can't keep butts in the pews. Religion is dying a sad and pathetic death and that's a good thing.
Click to expand...

True, a good thing. If you asked the younger generation around here if they believe in god they laugh at you. There is a large Catholic church in our village and the last time I popped in there during mass on Sunday there were 20 older people in there.
 
Fishking said:
Well, New Zealand is composed of 49% Christian and a few % of other religions, making 55%. That doesn't sound insignificant to me.
Click to expand...
It is reducing however. And 29% have no religion and 1.5% are jedi knights. If you want to speak to the leader of the last christian political party we had you will need permission from the warden as peadophiles do not get free visitation.

They are not insignificant but on the other hand atheists do not walk around in fear of them as they appaently do in america.
 
zyzygy said:
Do all of the 49 percent attend church weekly? Or is it a cultural label?

In New Zealand church attendance has never been particularly high, with the 1881 census indicating approximately 20% of the population attended church. In 1911 active membership in the Anglican and Catholic churches was about 12%. As they accounted for slightly more than half of church affiliation at that time it would indicate that attendance was still at around 20% for all churches combined. By the 1960s it was probably still at a similar level, but by the end of the century had declined to about 10%. The United States has presented a somewhat different picture with an increase in attendance from about 40% in 1860 to 58% in 1958. However by 1972 this had declined to about 40% a figure which has since remained relatively stable. What is common across all western countries though is that since the middle of the 1960s the mainline Protestant denominations have seen significant declines in numbers involved.


Religion in a Postaquarian Age | Presbyterian Church of Aotearoa New Zealand
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem insignificant to me.
 
soylentgreen said:
It is reducing however. And 29% have no religion and 1.5% are jedi knights. If you want to speak to the leader of the last christian political party we had you will need permission from the warden as peadophiles do not get free visitation.

They are not insignificant but on the other hand atheists do not walk around in fear of them as they appaently do in america.
Click to expand...

So not insignificant.
 
soylentgreen said:
Proposing a change in calanders is not unique or an impossible idea. Western civilisation has gone frome hellenic to roman to julian to gregorian.
We have had the calander we now use in effect to measure over two thousand years now. Given a starting point to a religion that no longer controls the thinking of modern man. That of the birth of christ and is called anno domini meaning in the year of our lord.

However this is archaic and based on a superstition and i argue that it is about time it was replaced with somethin contemporary and more fitting to what now has a greater influence. And what could be more fitting that america itself.

So i propose that instead of this being the year 2018 anno domini instead the calander once again should be changed and this should instead be the year 241 anno americae.
Click to expand...

More places on this planet than America.
 
soylentgreen said:
Not to some, but irrelevant as far as politics should go. The laws of my land should not be governed by what a man thinks a god wants.
Click to expand...

"Should not" sounds like an opinion statement that acknowledges that it very much still has an effect.
 
soylentgreen said:
Proposing a change in calanders is not unique or an impossible idea. Western civilisation has gone frome hellenic to roman to julian to gregorian.
We have had the calander we now use in effect to measure over two thousand years now. Given a starting point to a religion that no longer controls the thinking of modern man. That of the birth of christ and is called anno domini meaning in the year of our lord.

However this is archaic and based on a superstition and i argue that it is about time it was replaced with somethin contemporary and more fitting to what now has a greater influence. And what could be more fitting that america itself.

So i propose that instead of this being the year 2018 anno domini instead the calander once again should be changed and this should instead be the year 241 anno americae.
Click to expand...


Wait, so that might work for America. Good luck trying to get the rest of the world to accept that calendar, though. I mean what if the Germans want to mark the unification of the German states in the 19th century into modern Germany as the start of the Calender? Or maybe the French want to start it with the French Revolution? Maybe The Japanese want to mark it with the beginning of the Edo period. Or The Mexicans want to use Cinco de Mayo?

It gets pretty crazy. I am not very religious, but we have a system that's sort of been kinda sorta adapted by, or at least understood by, most of the world today for now- Christian or not. Not sure all the shake-up would be worth it at this point.
 
soylentgreen said:
i propose that instead of this being the year 2018 anno domini instead the calander once again should be changed and this should instead be the year 241 anno americae.
Click to expand...
I'm not a theist.

**** this plan.

I have no interest whatsoever spending the rest of my life translating dates and years in my head. Using "CE" and "BCE" work fine for me. Using "Thursday" doesn't indicate a belief in Norse deities, using "June" doesn't mean I adhere to Roman religious beliefs, using CE/BCE doesn't mean I'm a Christian. No problems are solved by this proposal.
 
ataraxia said:
Wait, so that might work for America. Good luck trying to get the rest of the world to accept that calendar, though. I mean what if the Germans want to mark the unification of the German states in the 19th century into modern Germany as the start of the Calender? Or maybe the French want to start it with the French Revolution? Maybe The Japanese want to mark it with the beginning of the Edo period. Or The Mexicans want to use Cinco de Mayo?

It gets pretty crazy. I am not very religious, but we have a system that's sort of been kinda sorta adapted by, or at least understood by, most of the world today for now- Christian or not. Not sure all the shake-up would be worth it at this point.
Click to expand...
Visbek said:
I'm not a theist.

**** this plan.

I have no interest whatsoever spending the rest of my life translating dates and years in my head. Using "CE" and "BCE" work fine for me. Using "Thursday" doesn't indicate a belief in Norse deities, using "June" doesn't mean I adhere to Roman religious beliefs, using CE/BCE doesn't mean I'm a Christian. No problems are solved by this proposal.
Click to expand...
You are both saying more or less the same thing so i will address this to both of you.
That is the type of thinking that religion survives on. It has been around for years so why bother changing it. You have to admit that is a form mental laziness.

I have no problem with your answer you are correct in that it solves nothing and is hardly worth the effort. But it is revealing and that is interesting.

I am absolutely amazed at the amount of people who went to the trouble of posting their point of view that they cannot be bothered to go the trouble of having a view on the subject. As well the hostility i got over suggesting a change. The weak excuses of it would cause disruption and be to expensive. Yet none of this happened when countries did change things like their money or weights and measures. The country of samoa managed to switch from driving on the right to the left without any big problems. Yet suggest changing something to an american and watch them throw a hissy fit.
The subject of this thread may have been about changing the calander but the point of it was to see just how conservative the average american really is.
 
Last edited:
soylentgreen said:
You are both saying more or less the same thing so i will address this to both of you.
That is the type of thinking that religion survives on. It has been around for years so why bother changing it. You have to admit that is a form mental laziness.

I have no problem with your answer you are correct in that it solves nothing and is hardly worth the effort. But it is revealing and that is interesting.

I am absolutely amazed at the amount of people who went to the trouble of posting their point of view that they cannot be bothered to go the trouble of having a view on the subject. As well the hostility i got over suggesting a change. The weak excuses of it would cause disruption and be to expensive. Yet none of this happened when countries did change things like their money or weights and measures. The country of samoa managed to switch from driving on the right to the left without any big problems. Yet suggest changing something to an american and watch them throw a hissy fit.
The subject of this thread may have been about changing the calander but the point of it was to see just how conservative the average american really is.
Click to expand...

You have a point. But just remember, the US is the only country in the world which still doesn't use the metric system. It's crazy. And lazy. But culture is hard to change. I learned long ago, while trying to raise a kid, that you just have to pick your battles. First we have to get the Texas and Kansas Boards of Education to stop trying to use the Bible as a science textbook.
 
ataraxia said:
You have a point. But just remember, the US is the only country in the world which still doesn't use the metric system. It's crazy. And lazy. But culture is hard to change. I learned long ago, while trying to raise a kid, that you just have to pick your battles. First we have to get the Texas and Kansas Boards of Education to stop trying to use the Bible as a science textbook.
Click to expand...

i find it an amazing contradiction with americans. Bring out the new i phone and they will line up for blocks to be the first to have one. Suggest they change the way they measure things and watch them come up with any and every excuse not to.

It would be funny if it was not so tragic.
 
soylentgreen said:
i find it an amazing contradiction with americans. Bring out the new i phone and they will line up for blocks to be the first to have one. Suggest they change the way they measure things and watch them come up with any and every excuse not to.

It would be funny if it was not so tragic.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know. It's not just America. It's a common phenomenon which sociologists call "cultural lag". We may have a bit more of it in this country than in some others.
 
DickBanks said:
Not just in America mate...
iPhone 6 launches in New Zealand stores | Stuff.co.nz
Click to expand...

Well no, the just in america part is there inability to accept any change to what they call tradition. In nz we have changed money, weights and even made changes in road rules without a bother. So accepting new technology is no big deal.
In america it is far more important to be seen as a flag waving patriot under the delusion that america is perfect and need not change.
 
soylentgreen said:
Proposing a change in calanders is not unique or an impossible idea. Western civilisation has gone frome hellenic to roman to julian to gregorian.
We have had the calander we now use in effect to measure over two thousand years now. Given a starting point to a religion that no longer controls the thinking of modern man. That of the birth of christ and is called anno domini meaning in the year of our lord.

However this is archaic and based on a superstition and i argue that it is about time it was replaced with somethin contemporary and more fitting to what now has a greater influence. And what could be more fitting that america itself.

So i propose that instead of this being the year 2018 anno domini instead the calander once again should be changed and this should instead be the year 241 anno americae.
Click to expand...

Listen, someone around here will probably argue that the anti-Christ crowd is confused enough already over what day and year it is, and changing the calendar just might be the coup de grace for those poor souls. I'd never say that, but someone might.
 
Last edited:
Logicman said:
Listen, someone around here will probably argue that the anti-Christ crowd is confused enough already over what day and year it is, and changing the calendar just might be the coup de grace for those poor souls. I'd never say that, but someone might.
Click to expand...

Nobody will be arguing that atheists do not know the date, not even you.
 
Logicman said:
Listen, someone around here will probably argue that the anti-Christ crowd is confused enough already over what day and year it is, and changing the calendar just might be the coup de grace for those poor souls. I'd never say that, but someone might.
Click to expand...

Well why not. I have had every other piss poor excuse for why it should not be changed.
 
zyzygy said:
Nobody will be arguing that atheists do not know the date, not even you.
Click to expand...

I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter if our calendar was begun with a religious intent. Many human institutions are the product of centuries of magical thinking. We don't need to change history, we need to learn from it. Let it stand as a reminder of how far we've come, since the days where people imagined an invisible sky daddy might get pissed if we didn't pander to him on every front. Today we are free, not of doubt and certainly not of faith, but free to choose to honor either or none. That's a relatively recent accomplishment for humanity.
 
I'm quite happy with the calendar.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom