Adam and Eve's grandchildren

queenmandy85 · Sep 17, 2017

Someone posed the following question to me yesterday: If we are all descended from Adam and Eve, and they had two sons, how did they have grandchildren? Aside from Eve, there were no women.

Lord Tammerlain · Sep 17, 2017

Eve was busy with Abel and it was not included in the OT

faithful_servant · Sep 17, 2017

queenmandy85 said:
Someone posed the following question to me yesterday: If we are all descended from Adam and Eve, and they had two sons, how did they have grandchildren? Aside from Eve, there were no women.

There is nothing in the Bible that said that Adam and Eve were the only people that God created, just that they were the first. Does the fact that no Meso-Americans were ever mentioned in the Bible mean that there were none???

ttwtt78640 · Sep 17, 2017

queenmandy85 said:
Someone posed the following question to me yesterday: If we are all descended from Adam and Eve, and they had two sons, how did they have grandchildren? Aside from Eve, there were no women.

The idea, as I understand it, is that Adam and Eve were the first people created by god but not the only people created by god. The story also goes on to say that when Cain killed Able he was banished to go live with the "others". This is basically asking that same question - who, exactly, were these "others"" BTW, what does this have to do with politics?

<alt>doxygen · Sep 17, 2017

queenmandy85 said:
Someone posed the following question to me yesterday: If we are all descended from Adam and Eve, and they had two sons, how did they have grandchildren? Aside from Eve, there were no women.

A couple of defenses I have heard:

Adam and Eve had daughters, they just aren't named in the bible.

Incest was okay then, because God had not yet made it a bad thing.

Note...should be in a slightly different forum.

code1211 · Sep 17, 2017

queenmandy85 said:
Someone posed the following question to me yesterday: If we are all descended from Adam and Eve, and they had two sons, how did they have grandchildren? Aside from Eve, there were no women.

I'm not sure.

If the Jedi's are so smart, how did they get hunted down?

Helix · Sep 17, 2017

IMO, the Adam and Eve story is excellent allegory. it refers to the evolution of a highly developed prefrontal cortex in humans, the downsides to that, and the additional responsibilities that we must bear as a result of being sentient in a way that other animals are not. read it through that lens, and it's quite eye opening. for example, "eating the apple" would refer to our brains developing and giving us a heightened sense of self awareness / right and wrong.

queenmandy85 · Sep 17, 2017

Helix said:
IMO, the Adam and Eve story is excellent allegory. it refers to the evolution of a highly developed prefrontal cortex in humans, the downsides to that, and the additional responsibilities that we must bear as a result of being sentient in a way that other animals are not. read it through that lens, and it's quite eye opening. for example, "eating the apple" would refer to our brains developing and giving us a heightened sense of self awareness / right and wrong.

Intersting proposition. Of course we now know that we are not the only animals who are sentient. Other primates, some whales and dolphins, and the squirrel who lives in my wood pile.

ttwtt78640 · Sep 17, 2017

Helix said:
IMO, the Adam and Eve story is excellent allegory. it refers to the evolution of a highly developed prefrontal cortex in humans, the downsides to that, and the additional responsibilities that we must bear as a result of being sentient in a way that other animals are not. read it through that lens, and it's quite eye opening. for example, "eating the apple" would refer to our brains developing and giving us a heightened sense of self awareness / right and wrong.

Yet, at the same time, saying that right and wrong are to be defined by following instructions relayed to us (only?) through folks claiming to have been chosen by god. So, is abortion or using birth control right or wrong?

Helix · Sep 17, 2017

queenmandy85 said:
Intersting proposition. Of course we now know that we are not the only animals who are sentient. Other primates, some whales and dolphins, and the squirrel who lives in my wood pile.

true, but we're sentient in a way that other animals are not. perhaps "sentient in a unique way" would have been a better way to phrase it.

Helix · Sep 17, 2017

ttwtt78640 said:
Yet, at the same time, saying that right and wrong are to be defined by following instructions relayed to us (only?) through folks claiming to have been chosen by god. So, is abortion or using birth control right or wrong?

arguing that right and wrong is nuanced does not disprove that the general concept exists. my argument is that we are sentient enough to ponder on that concept, which is what i think this allegory is describing. also, we realize our mortality in a way that other animals probably don't, as in "i'm alive right now, and i could be dead at any moment, and who knows what that means." if you focus on that one properly, it can be torture.

ttwtt78640 · Sep 17, 2017

Helix said:
arguing that right and wrong is nuanced does not disprove that the general concept exists. my argument is that we are sentient enough to ponder on that concept, which is what i think this allegory is describing. also, we realize our mortality in a way that other animals probably don't, as in "i'm alive right now, and i could be dead at any moment, and who knows what that means." if you focus on that one properly, it can be torture.

I'm not arguing "nuance" - I am asking what (actually more who) dictates moral authority?

Helix · Sep 17, 2017

ttwtt78640 said:
I'm not arguing "nuance" - I am asking what (actually more who) dictates moral authority?

historically, it has been a striving towards a stable society in which the weak are protected from "might makes right." who decides? which activities fall under moral absolutism? that's hard to pin down. however, we are a subset of animals which reflects on whether an activity might be wrong, or even "evil," to open that particular can of worms. with that level of cognition comes more responsibility. that's what i think that this specific allegory is describing.

rocket88 · Sep 17, 2017

queenmandy85 said:
Someone posed the following question to me yesterday: If we are all descended from Adam and Eve, and they had two sons, how did they have grandchildren? Aside from Eve, there were no women.

The whole thing is a myth anyway. We need myths, but it's not literally true.

USViking · Sep 17, 2017

Doesn't anyone around here ever think of doing a little research before they post ? A very little? A tiny little?

Take a look at Genesis 5:3-4

When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.

ttwtt78640 · Sep 17, 2017

Helix said:
historically, it has been a striving towards a stable society in which the weak are protected from "might makes right." who decides? which activities fall under moral absolutism? that's hard to pin down. however, we are a subset of animals which reflects on whether an activity might be wrong, or even "evil," to open that particular can of worms. with that level of cognition comes more responsibility. that's what i think that this specific allegory is describing.

OK, but that sacred text also has instructions for properly beating one's slaves. The difficulty still seems to be asserting that the same source of "moral authority" can be both right and wrong. Having concern for the greater good of others override the concern for oneself, one's family, one's tribe, one's nation or one's region is not likely to be accepted without some reference to a moral authority (higher power?).

Brochacholomigo · Sep 17, 2017

code1211 said:
I'm not sure.

If the Jedi's are so smart, how did they get hunted down?

The Jedi Temple on Coruscant was built over a Force Nexus, or a place that was particularly powerful in the Force. This one was marred with just the faintest hint of Dark Side contamination. This caused the Jedi on Coruscant to have a harder time getting accurate visions.of the future - they would often be indistinct, or even maliciously misleading. This greatly assisted Palpatine in hiding his dreadful might in the Dark Side from the Jedi during his time as Senator of Naboo and Supreme Chancellor.

But that's just how Palpatine got into place to kill the Jedi. Between casualties from the war, the attack on the Jedi Temple, and Order 66, an estimated 1 to 2% of the original 10,000 Jedi were left alive, and all of those survivors were recorded as members of the Order in the computer banks of the Jedi Temple, along with data on their travels and assignments during their time in as Jedi, as well as the location of most every location significant to the Jedi Order, from minor temples, artifact repositories, and all manner of other places the Jedi would want to keep track of.

Asides from Yoda, who was told where to find the Force Nexus on Dagobah by the ghost of Qui-Gon Jinn, who only knew about it from and Obiwan Kenobi, who hid on what might have been Darth Vader's least favorite planet in the entire galaxy, most survivors of Order 66 wouldn't have had anywhere they could actually go to hide.

Couldn't tell you how Qui-Gon Jinn found Dagobah, though. That's a mystery to me. :shrug:

queenmandy85 · Sep 17, 2017

USViking said:
Doesn't anyone around here ever think of doing a little research before they post ? A very little? A tiny little?

Take a look at Genesis 5:3-4

That explains everything. Thanks. Of course that indicates a level of incest that would not be acceptable today.

MrPeanut · Sep 17, 2017

queenmandy85 said:
That explains everything. Thanks. Of course that indicates a level of incest that would not be acceptable today.

One of the stranger explanations I have heard is that Adam and Eve had perfect DNA, which allowed them to live hundreds of years, so after massive amounts of incest you get us with all of our flaws and comparatively short lifespans. The usual explanation to avoid the incest is to just say that other people existed, but they just weren't written about.

Helix · Sep 17, 2017

ttwtt78640 said:
OK, but that sacred text also has instructions for properly beating one's slaves. The difficulty still seems to be asserting that the same source of "moral authority" can be both right and wrong. Having concern for the greater good of others override the concern for oneself, one's family, one's tribe, one's nation or one's region is not likely to be accepted without some reference to a moral authority (higher power?).

We're talking about this specific allegory and what it might mean outside of the literal interpretation. If you want to talk Leviticus, that could probably be its own thread. I might participate, as i have a few theories concerning that book. However, I'm far from a biblical scholar. As a scientist, the creation story jumps out at me in a number of ways when read as allegory.

Is belief in a higher power necessary for morality to exist, however generally you want to define it? No. Does belief in a higher power make humanistic behavior more likely in practice? Sometimes, and sometimes not. That, too, is very nuanced.

queenmandy85 · Sep 17, 2017

What intrigues me is the level of interest and sophisticated analysis of a story told by a neolithic shepherd thousands of years ago. (S)He was quite a story teller.

DaveFagan · Sep 17, 2017

queenmandy85 said:
That explains everything. Thanks. Of course that indicates a level of incest that would not be acceptable today.

Who were the Moabites?
/

joG · Sep 17, 2017

<alt>doxygen said:
A couple of defenses I have heard:

Adam and Eve had daughters, they just aren't named in the bible.

Incest was okay then, because God had not yet made it a bad thing.

Note...should be in a slightly different forum.

B.C. not p.c..

zyzygy · Sep 17, 2017

<alt>doxygen said:
A couple of defenses I have heard:

Adam and Eve had daughters, they just aren't named in the bible.

Incest was okay then, because God had not yet made it a bad thing.

Note...should be in a slightly different forum.

The fantasy forum.

code1211 · Sep 22, 2017

Jesse Booth said:
The Jedi Temple on Coruscant was built over a Force Nexus, or a place that was particularly powerful in the Force. This one was marred with just the faintest hint of Dark Side contamination. This caused the Jedi on Coruscant to have a harder time getting accurate visions.of the future - they would often be indistinct, or even maliciously misleading. This greatly assisted Palpatine in hiding his dreadful might in the Dark Side from the Jedi during his time as Senator of Naboo and Supreme Chancellor.

But that's just how Palpatine got into place to kill the Jedi. Between casualties from the war, the attack on the Jedi Temple, and Order 66, an estimated 1 to 2% of the original 10,000 Jedi were left alive, and all of those survivors were recorded as members of the Order in the computer banks of the Jedi Temple, along with data on their travels and assignments during their time in as Jedi, as well as the location of most every location significant to the Jedi Order, from minor temples, artifact repositories, and all manner of other places the Jedi would want to keep track of.

Asides from Yoda, who was told where to find the Force Nexus on Dagobah by the ghost of Qui-Gon Jinn, who only knew about it from and Obiwan Kenobi, who hid on what might have been Darth Vader's least favorite planet in the entire galaxy, most survivors of Order 66 wouldn't have had anywhere they could actually go to hide.

Couldn't tell you how Qui-Gon Jinn found Dagobah, though. That's a mystery to me. :shrug:

Wow! I don't know this much about me.

Of course, by the appearances here, you probably have a greater interest in the Jedi than I have in myself.

I'm am a spectacularly boring person.

Adam and Eve's grandchildren

queenmandy85

Lord Tammerlain

faithful_servant

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

<alt>doxygen

"I want MY WALL!"

code1211

Helix

queenmandy85

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

Helix

Helix

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

Helix

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist

USViking

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

Brochacholomigo

we live in a society

queenmandy85

MrPeanut

Helix

queenmandy85

DaveFagan

Iconoclast

joG

zyzygy

code1211