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Socialism

FreedomFromAll said:
No it isnt actually socialism, people just call socialism out of ignorance or out of deceit. Socialism is a political, social, and economic system, not a program.
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Its semantics.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
We have no socialist programs. What you are probably mistaking as being related to socialism is social infrastructure of which all type of governments have some form of social infrastructure.
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Medicare/Medicade, Social Security.
 
RAMOSS said:
Medicare/Medicade, Social Security.
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None of those are socialism. To assert that Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security is socialism is an ignorant claim or an outright deceitful assertion.

Socialists and ironically ultra conservatives both claim that social infrastructure is socialism, the former for deceitful propagandist reasons, and latter to use in their own deceitful propaganda against the left.

What social security is, is social infrastructure. All modern countries have social infrastructure. Some are better than others.

And FFS socialists do not own the concept of social infrastructure, they did not invent it. Social infrastructure by far out-dates the invention of socialism. Socialists have long tried to claim that socialism owns social infrastructure but that is just deceit.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
None of those are socialism. To assert that Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security is socialism is an ignorant claim or an outright deceitful assertion.

Socialists and ironically ultra conservatives both claim that social infrastructure is socialism, the former for deceitful propagandist reasons, and latter to use in their own deceitful propaganda against the left.

What social security is, is social infrastructure. All modern countries have social infrastructure. Some are better than others.

And FFS socialists do not own the concept of social infrastructure, they did not invent it. Social infrastructure by far out-dates the invention of socialism. Socialists have long tried to claim that socialism owns social infrastructure but that is just deceit.
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This is semantic nonsense. Most democratic socialists want more social programs. Its not that complicated
 
FreedomFromAll said:
So what you are saying is that because "democratic socialists" want something that makes it socialism?
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Dude stay locked in your semantics. Its pointless but go ahead
 
vegas giants said:
Dude stay locked in your semantics. Its pointless but go ahead
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Dude social infrastructure is not socialism. It has nothing to do with semantics or your logical fallacy about what democratic socialists want.

All modern countries have some form of social infrastructure. Quit trying to be deceitful, calling it socialism when it isnt.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Dude social infrastructure is not socialism. It has nothing to do with semantics or your logical fallacy about what democratic socialists want.

All modern countries have some form of social infrastructure. Quit trying to be deceitful, calling it socialism when it isnt.
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Ok dude. How does any of this advance the debate. Its pointless semantics
 
vegas giants said:
Ok dude. How does any of this advance the debate. Its pointless semantics
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If you were actually debating you would have tried to prove that they are are socialist programs. But instead you just keep repeating the word semantics without even attempting to explain yourself.

Infrastructure does not equate socialism, I know some uneducated people think so, but some uneducated people think all kinds of stupid things. All forms of successful governments have infrastructure as an integral part of their government. When you assert that social infrastructure is socialism you are being incredibly ignorant.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
If you were actually debating you would have tried to prove that they are are socialist programs. But instead you just keep repeating the word semantics without even attempting to explain yourself.

Infrastructure does not equate socialism, I know some uneducated people think so, but some uneducated people think all kinds of stupid things. All forms of successful governments have infrastructure as an integral part of their government. When you assert that social infrastructure is socialism you are being incredibly ignorant.
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Medicaid and medicare is not infrastructure.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
If you were actually debating you would have tried to prove that they are are socialist programs. But instead you just keep repeating the word semantics without even attempting to explain yourself.

Infrastructure does not equate socialism, I know some uneducated people think so, but some uneducated people think all kinds of stupid things. All forms of successful governments have infrastructure as an integral part of their government. When you assert that social infrastructure is socialism you are being incredibly ignorant.
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This is a pointless conversation
 
Axis said:
How come there are no socialists in this forum?

Everyone's political philosophies seem to lean to towards a conservative nature or a liberal nature. Why? Conservatism: is the constitution that you live with, really that uhm, perfect? Liberalism: is that too, really that great? All around, is it? For those with insufficient funds to back-up an education for their families or for themselves? Or is it just petite (poetically used); apropos for yourself? Conservatism: are the laws we have, really that great? What about those innocently accused; but condemned, thanks to the jury system? Those that are too poor, to bring their case to a higher court? What should we do, those with conservative like philosophies?

Ignore that above. But seriously. Why do I see no leanings toward socialism? Do you think it is for the corrupt and wicked? A day more like the lines of feudalism? But really, why do I see none?
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Socialism itself is an immoral ideology to begin with. It forces people into something, in certain parts of our communities and economy, that they don't want to do. A few examples:

Obamacare - you have to buy health insurance or pay a penalty. If you don't do neither one, you can potentially go to jail.

Redistribution of wealth - giving money to people that never earned it. Higher taxes are attached to everyone who can pay taxes, NOT JUST ON THE RICH AND WEALTHY!

Socialized Medicine - the government dictates the patient's and doctor's decisions. Look up the Charlie Gard case, you'll find out.

These are only a few examples of socialism. If you're a Christian, you're already, with socialism breaking some of the Ten Commandments (some of which include stealing, which is redistribution, and coveting, wanting what someone else has). Bernie Sanders himself is a socialist (he'll say democratic socialist but there's hardly any difference), and he has no problems with it whatsoever. What ends up happening, ultimately, is socialism eventually turns into communism (which is far worse).

As bad as what Hitler (the man who caused the Holocaust) was back in his time, Stalin, Mao, Che, Pul Pot, Putin, Castro, and other well known communists make Hitler look like Disney World. These guys have oppress and, some of them, killed their own people because they didn't jump when these guys said jump. Had Hitler won WWII, his socialist vision would have been turned into a communist one. Everyone makes the same (which isn't a lot and not even enough for the job), regardless of how hard and good of a job they do. It would take care of the wage gap between rich poor, but there's no prosperity and more than likely there wouldn't be a middle class. Just a permanent underclass. Politicians would be put first ahead of everyone else, NOT RICH CEOS (there wouldn't be any). And instead of 1 dictator, you would have hundreds, if not, thousands of dictators.

This is just a small sample of why masses of people do not lean towards socialism. Today's liberalism is a lot like socialism. Not entirely, but close. Conservatism is no where close to it. The one thing to remember is reality should always trump selfishness. Socialism is a barrel of selfishness, but with side effects. In case if you are curious about Marxism, where both socialism and communism come from, please feel free to ask. I am very much against it, but I will be fair.
 
Herkamer63 said:
Socialism itself is an immoral ideology to begin with. It forces people into something, in certain parts of our communities and economy, that they don't want to do. A few examples:

Obamacare - you have to buy health insurance or pay a penalty. If you don't do neither one, you can potentially go to jail.

Redistribution of wealth - giving money to people that never earned it. Higher taxes are attached to everyone who can pay taxes, NOT JUST ON THE RICH AND WEALTHY!

Socialized Medicine - the government dictates the patient's and doctor's decisions. Look up the Charlie Gard case, you'll find out.

These are only a few examples of socialism. If you're a Christian, you're already, with socialism breaking some of the Ten Commandments (some of which include stealing, which is redistribution, and coveting, wanting what someone else has). Bernie Sanders himself is a socialist (he'll say democratic socialist but there's hardly any difference), and he has no problems with it whatsoever. What ends up happening, ultimately, is socialism eventually turns into communism (which is far worse).

As bad as what Hitler (the man who caused the Holocaust) was back in his time, Stalin, Mao, Che, Pul Pot, Putin, Castro, and other well known communists make Hitler look like Disney World. These guys have oppress and, some of them, killed their own people because they didn't jump when these guys said jump. Had Hitler won WWII, his socialist vision would have been turned into a communist one. Everyone makes the same (which isn't a lot and not even enough for the job), regardless of how hard and good of a job they do. It would take care of the wage gap between rich poor, but there's no prosperity and more than likely there wouldn't be a middle class. Just a permanent underclass. Politicians would be put first ahead of everyone else, NOT RICH CEOS (there wouldn't be any). And instead of 1 dictator, you would have hundreds, if not, thousands of dictators.

This is just a small sample of why masses of people do not lean towards socialism. Today's liberalism is a lot like socialism. Not entirely, but close. Conservatism is no where close to it. The one thing to remember is reality should always trump selfishness. Socialism is a barrel of selfishness, but with side effects. In case if you are curious about Marxism, where both socialism and communism come from, please feel free to ask. I am very much against it, but I will be fair.
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You would hate this country if we got rid of all of our socialist programs
 
Herkamer63 said:
Socialism itself is an immoral ideology to begin with. It forces people into something, in certain parts of our communities and economy, that they don't want to do. A few examples:

Obamacare - you have to buy health insurance or pay a penalty. If you don't do neither one, you can potentially go to jail.

Redistribution of wealth - giving money to people that never earned it. Higher taxes are attached to everyone who can pay taxes, NOT JUST ON THE RICH AND WEALTHY!

Socialized Medicine - the government dictates the patient's and doctor's decisions. Look up the Charlie Gard case, you'll find out.

These are only a few examples of socialism. If you're a Christian, you're already, with socialism breaking some of the Ten Commandments (some of which include stealing, which is redistribution, and coveting, wanting what someone else has). Bernie Sanders himself is a socialist (he'll say democratic socialist but there's hardly any difference), and he has no problems with it whatsoever. What ends up happening, ultimately, is socialism eventually turns into communism (which is far worse).

As bad as what Hitler (the man who caused the Holocaust) was back in his time, Stalin, Mao, Che, Pul Pot, Putin, Castro, and other well known communists make Hitler look like Disney World. These guys have oppress and, some of them, killed their own people because they didn't jump when these guys said jump. Had Hitler won WWII, his socialist vision would have been turned into a communist one. Everyone makes the same (which isn't a lot and not even enough for the job), regardless of how hard and good of a job they do. It would take care of the wage gap between rich poor, but there's no prosperity and more than likely there wouldn't be a middle class. Just a permanent underclass. Politicians would be put first ahead of everyone else, NOT RICH CEOS (there wouldn't be any). And instead of 1 dictator, you would have hundreds, if not, thousands of dictators.

This is just a small sample of why masses of people do not lean towards socialism. Today's liberalism is a lot like socialism. Not entirely, but close. Conservatism is no where close to it. The one thing to remember is reality should always trump selfishness. Socialism is a barrel of selfishness, but with side effects. In case if you are curious about Marxism, where both socialism and communism come from, please feel free to ask. I am very much against it, but I will be fair.
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The ACA is not socialism. It's corporatism on steroids. A true socialistic implementation would be a single payer system, cutting out the insurance companies and the profit
motivation.
 
WolfJr said:
Depends on what you view as socialism, if you include social democracy then I have leanings towards socialism. But if you only mean the far left, than "

Tapatalkkal küldve az én F8331 eszközömről
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Cool Hungarian signature.
 
prometeus said:
Cool Hungarian signature.
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Let me be, I'm new to all of this. Never used this app before, but it's far more user friendly than the website when viewing on my phone. I'll make loads of more stupidities.
 
RAMOSS said:
Medicaid and medicare is not infrastructure.
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There are two type of infrastructure: soft and hard

Hard infrastructure refers to the large physical networks necessary for the functioning of a modern industrial nation.

Soft infrastructure refers to all the institutions which are required to maintain the economic, health, and cultural and social standards of a country, such as the financial system, the education system, the health care system, the system of government, and law enforcement, as well as emergency services.

Within soft infrastructure there is social infrastructure, whereas medicaid and medicare resides.
 
RAMOSS said:
The ACA is not socialism. It's corporatism on steroids. A true socialistic implementation would be a single payer system, cutting out the insurance companies and the profit
motivation.
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Actually it is a form of it. When part of the law (which was developed, voted, and passed by the government) says you have to buy insurance or pay a penalty, that's a partial government takeover of healthcare, while insurance companies get paid more (crony capitalism, if you will but it's really socialism). Not to brag, but I work in the health field so I know what I'm talking about in this area. The whole reason why we have ACA is because of the insurance companies and their never ending pursuit of monopolies (which again is a form of socialism because they're taking over parts of the health field). In the end, the ACA was designed to fail and try to convince everyone the private sector is THE problem. The monopolies (the socialist corporations) are eventually bought out by the a socialistic government, and single payer kicks in. That's socialism.
 
WolfJr said:
Let me be, I'm new to all of this. Never used this app before, but it's far more user friendly than the website when viewing on my phone. I'll make loads of more stupidities.
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Its all good, I am glad to see someone else who knows the language. Is it a Sony "device" bought in Hungary?
 
prometeus said:
Its all good, I am glad to see someone else who knows the language. Is it a Sony "device" bought in Hungary?
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It's a Sony Xperia XZ bought in Austria, as I live there but the phone itself and so the App too is set to Hungarian (my mother tongue).
But as we're here, what's your view on socialism and the MSZP? If I understood correctly and you're Hungarian aswell, or do you just know the language?
 
Hello Ifj. Farkas,

WolfJr said:
It's a Sony Xperia XZ bought in Austria, as I live there but the phone itself and so the App too is set to Hungarian (my mother tongue).
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And your English is great too.

But as we're here, what's your view on socialism and the MSZP?
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Socialism, as in "commonly owned means of production" sucks. I have seen it first hand, I spent a lot of time in Eastern Europe a long time ago. I am not sure what the MSZP is. If I were to guess, I'd say it is the Magyar Szocialista Part, and I have been out of touch to the politics of the region lately. Had too much of it in an earlier life. Now when I have a chance to visit it is strictly for cultural reasons, theatre and folk festivals and of course food.

If I understood correctly and you're Hungarian aswell, or do you just know the language?
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To be honest, I really do not know if I am or not, but I will not go into details why. Yes I know it at native level, but I know other Eastern European languages at the same level too. I was born there somewhere, I just do not know where and was never able to find out.
 
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