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White Christian conservatives should oppose protests by white supremacists

Tell me you're kidding. Please tell me you're kidding. On the lawn of EVERY Methodist church in the county I live (which is very large, btw) you will see a cross with a flame at the bottom. It is symbolic for showing that Christ is the light of the world.

I've been told the Lutherans use the symbol as well.


That's kind of different from setting a cross on fire as a way of saying "better watch out we don't like your kind." Jesus' message of light, love and mercy isn't very compatible with the stuff the Klan stands for.
 
That's kind of different from setting a cross on fire as a way of saying "better watch out we don't like your kind." Jesus' message of light, love and mercy isn't very compatible with the stuff the Klan stands for.

I hate it when this level of dishonesty compels me to have to defend others I'm not a part of.

The KKK's use of the lighted cross is just as sacred as the Methodists using it. OTOH, the reconstituted KKK was an offshoot of the Masons. So, I suppose that you could demonize the Masons and include the KKK along with them.
 
I hate it when this level of dishonesty compels me to have to defend others I'm not a part of.

The KKK's use of the lighted cross is just as sacred as the Methodists using it. OTOH, the reconstituted KKK was an offshoot of the Masons. So, I suppose that you could demonize the Masons and include the KKK along with them.


Dishonesty? Bud, you don't know me. I'm probably the most honest person on DP.


I may be mistaken at times but I never knowingly lie.


I never claimed to be expert on what this cross-burning stuff is about, if you will recall I specifically said I didn't understand it. My previous post expressed an OPINION based on available data...



You might want to backtrack a little on that before you bite off more than you can chew.
 
Dishonesty? Bud, you don't know me. I'm probably the most honest person on DP.


I may be mistaken at times but I never knowingly lie.



You might want to backtrack a little on that before you bite off more than you can chew.

Okay, then we can say you are "mistaken." I know people on both sides of the political fence. There are some ADL Jews whose morals are lower than most white supremacists. There are guys in the KKK who have ministries that are certainly no more hateful than Jews, Muslims or atheists.

I think it's become fashionable to condemn the whites for their alleged racism and give everyone else a free pass. When there is contention and divisiveness, everybody has contributed. In my experience, those pretending to condemn white racism the loudest are, many times, those who have the most to hide.

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." Matthew 6 :24

The current conservative (sic) ideology that was taken from the white supremacists should be abandoned OR they should embrace their brethren without stipulations.
 
I hate it when this level of dishonesty compels me to have to defend others I'm not a part of.

The KKK's use of the lighted cross is just as sacred as the Methodists using it. OTOH, the reconstituted KKK was an offshoot of the Masons. So, I suppose that you could demonize the Masons and include the KKK along with them.

Nothing the KKK does is "sacred". Its actions are a perversion of Christianity.
 
Okay, then we can say you are "mistaken." I know people on both sides of the political fence. There are some ADL Jews whose morals are lower than most white supremacists. There are guys in the KKK who have ministries that are certainly no more hateful than Jews, Muslims or atheists.

I think it's become fashionable to condemn the whites for their alleged racism and give everyone else a free pass. When there is contention and divisiveness, everybody has contributed. In my experience, those pretending to condemn white racism the loudest are, many times, those who have the most to hide.

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." Matthew 6 :24

The current conservative (sic) ideology that was taken from the white supremacists should be abandoned OR they should embrace their brethren without stipulations.



I'm sorry I couldn't make heads or tails of the point of that post.
 
Bruce Ashford is the Provost and Dean of Faculty of the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina. He says that claiming whites are superior to others is in opposition to Biblical Christianity, that God values diversity, and that all of us, irrespective of race, are created in His image:
God sent his son – a brown Middle Eastern man – to save the whole world, including sinners of every race and ethnicity (John 3:16). Genuine Christianity overcomes social, ethnic, and gender barriers (Galatians 3:26, 28).

That is why we should fight white nationalism and other forms of racism tooth-and-nail, not only from the voting booth, but in our neighborhoods, at our churches, and on our social media. We should fight it when it takes the form of personal prejudice; when a person of one ethnic heritage intentionally denigrates or harms a person of another ethnic heritage. White Christian conservatives should oppose protests by white supremacists | Fox News


Between The GOP & Democrats and American Progressive/Liberals & real Conservative/Libertarians its only Progressive Liberal Democrats who have ever and still endorse racism.

Not too long ago the KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democrat party. Today Leftist Democrats are no better. They just exploit racial hatred from the oppose direction, through organizations like BLM and poverty pimps like Al Sharpton .

Right Wing Republicans try to be as color blind as possible. Although there are racist who endorse us we never endorse them.
 
Between The GOP & Democrats and American Progressive/Liberals & real Conservative/Libertarians its only Progressive Liberal Democrats who have ever and still endorse racism.

Not too long ago the KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democrat party. Today Leftist Democrats are no better. They just exploit racial hatred from the oppose direction, through organizations like BLM and poverty pimps like Al Sharpton .

Right Wing Republicans try to be as color blind as possible. Although there are racist who endorse us we never endorse them.

So, it was the 'Liberal democrats' who marked with torches and guns in Charlotteville. Just want to know what your definitions are.
 
That's kind of different from setting a cross on fire as a way of saying "better watch out we don't like your kind." Jesus' message of light, love and mercy isn't very compatible with the stuff the Klan stands for.

No, it's not.

As for the Methodist church symbol:

Adopted shortly after the merger of The Methodist Church and the Evangelical United Brethren Church. It relates The United Methodist church to God through Christ (cross) and the Holy Spirit (flame). The flame is a reminder of Pentecost when witnesses were unified by the power of the Holy Spirit and saw "tongues, as of fire" (Acts 2:3).The two tongues of a single flame may also be understood to represent the union of two denominations. The two separate flames represent the Evangelical United Brethren Church and the Methodist Church coming together to form the United Methodist Church.

The cross and flame was registered as a trademark in 1971 (for the purpose of preventing its misuse) and is intended only for official United Methodist agencies, including local churches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_and_flame

I agree with Dr. Ashford that white nationalism and white supremacy represent "a frontal assault on the Christian gospel, a denial of human dignity and a subversion of our democracy."

As he observes, all of us were created in God's image. As the Declaration of Independence asserts, we are all created equally and endowed with unalienable rights. If we think or act as if someone is "less," we are missing the big point.
 
Nothing the KKK does is "sacred". Its actions are a perversion of Christianity.

In YOUR opinion. I hear Christians accusing Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons of the same thing.

The way I see it is like this:

The legitimate (not necessarily the original) KKK is a legal non-profit corporation. IF they were engaged in something illegal, the government would move to arrest the leadership and dissolve the corporation. So, in the meantime, as an American I have to be diligent and respect their rights bearing in mind to presume them innocent of a criminal act unless and until they are taken to court based upon probable cause.

The fact that their interpretation of the Bible is different from yours is not evidence that they perverted Christianity. I mean, hell dude, in my lifetime I've witnessed the government forcing people to change their Articles of Faith or lose their non-profit status (so much for the separation of church and state.) So, the next thing I guess you'll tell me is that if the government approves of your religion, then the others are perversions of Christianity?
 
In YOUR opinion. I hear Christians accusing Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons of the same thing.

The way I see it is like this:

The legitimate (not necessarily the original) KKK is a legal non-profit corporation. IF they were engaged in something illegal, the government would move to arrest the leadership and dissolve the corporation. So, in the meantime, as an American I have to be diligent and respect their rights bearing in mind to presume them innocent of a criminal act unless and until they are taken to court based upon probable cause.

The fact that their interpretation of the Bible is different from yours is not evidence that they perverted Christianity. I mean, hell dude, in my lifetime I've witnessed the government forcing people to change their Articles of Faith or lose their non-profit status (so much for the separation of church and state.) So, the next thing I guess you'll tell me is that if the government approves of your religion, then the others are perversions of Christianity?

In the opinion of any sane and right minded person. These people literally(and repeatedly) firebombed churches in an attempt to intimidate and kill African Americans.

The KKK routinely commits criminal activity. They have been doing so for years.

If you murder children in a church, that's a pretty clear ****ing sign you have perverted Christianity.
 
In the opinion of any sane and right minded person. These people literally(and repeatedly) firebombed churches in an attempt to intimidate and kill African Americans.

The KKK routinely commits criminal activity. They have been doing so for years.

If you murder children in a church, that's a pretty clear ****ing sign you have perverted Christianity.


Can you tell me of a time when the legal Ku Klux Klan firebombed a church? See you keep putting me in this untenable position and have NO facts to back your assertions.

This country elected a Muslim to the highest office in this land. Yet, we know there are sects of Muslims that indulge in a religion of hate, paranoia, and fear. So, the bulk of the American people say there are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims. And, despite their religion, we do not judge them. Muslims crash into the World Trade Center and kill over 3000 Americans. There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims. Another Muslim kills 49 patrons of a gay bar in Florida. He injures more than 50. There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims. A soldier of the Muslim faith goes on a rampage killing more than a dozen of his fellow soldiers. There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims. The Muslims don't pervert religion; they deserve to be defended at all costs.

A church gets firebombed by a rogue racist - and maybe not one even connected to the KKK and ALL those guys are suddenly bad. They are all criminals. If one white guy is bad, the whole lot of them is bad unless they subscribe to the One World / One Race global aspirations of those who believe in the NEW WORLD ORDER / ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. I'm sorry. I'm not buying the argument.
 
Between The GOP & Democrats and American Progressive/Liberals & real Conservative/Libertarians its only Progressive Liberal Democrats who have ever and still endorse racism.

Not too long ago the KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democrat party. Today Leftist Democrats are no better. They just exploit racial hatred from the oppose direction, through organizations like BLM and poverty pimps like Al Sharpton .

Right Wing Republicans try to be as color blind as possible. Although there are racist who endorse us we never endorse them.

What we need is balance and perspective. While what you are saying is true, there is a flip side to the equation:

Somewhere along the time of Martin Luther King, Jr. the Dems started promising the black people the sun, the moon and the stars. They hadn't done a single thing to merit the loyalty. I mean, when I was younger in those days, we had a Democrat running for governor of Georgia. He used to get on tv (yes on tv) and his spiel was " If you elect me governor of Georgia, I will ship all the (expletive deleted N word) back to Africa." This was the mindset of the Democrats. You had people like U.S. Sen. Robert Byrd that was ex KKK that was a top Democrat Senator. On and on we can go with the examples.

Before I go on, ironically, most of the racists did more for the black people than the multiculturalists did or ever will do. There is more to the story that we don't know... things the MSM never tells us.

While the Republicans can point to the fact that they were the party that led the way to abolishing slavery in the United States, they have also adopted Democrat ideas... not changing the subject of the thread, but Bill Clinton's nutty wall idea was a classic example. And that has opened the door to the support of David Duke, white nationalists, etc. Now, the Republicans cannot completely divorce themselves from the white vote. So, they are forced to tip toe around not offending the mainstream. And, if the Dems join in the support of THEIR old ideas, it appears to strengthen the Republicans. But, the Dems are brilliant as strategic fighters. They allow their political enemies to pick up their ideas and run with them, while offering weak token opposition so as to allow the plans to move forward.

Personally, I get tired of the charade my own race participates in. They believe, but are too cowardly to stand up. They condemn the NEW WORLD ORDER in one breath and then condemn any white that resists it. They allow black racism and so forth to exist without opposition, but feel the need to condemn anyone that is white AND politically active. And, to add insult to injury, they condemn white supremacists while feeding off their rhetoric as justification for their political agenda. And that is the way it is.
 
Between The GOP & Democrats and American Progressive/Liberals & real Conservative/Libertarians its only Progressive Liberal Democrats who have ever and still endorse racism.

Yawn. Utterly unmorred from reality and rather hilariously historically illiterate.
Not too long ago the KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democrat party. Today Leftist Democrats are no better. They just exploit racial hatred from the oppose direction, through organizations like BLM and poverty pimps like Al Sharpton .

Right Wing Republicans try to be as color blind as possible. Although there are racist who endorse us we never endorse them.

Why even bother to post such tripe and expect to be taken seriously?
 
In the opinion of any sane and right minded person. These people literally(and repeatedly) firebombed churches in an attempt to intimidate and kill African Americans.

The KKK routinely commits criminal activity. They have been doing so for years.

If you murder children in a church, that's a pretty clear ****ing sign you have perverted Christianity.

Some people are immune to reason and the historical record.

They simply cannot face them and risk their entire worldview collapsing.

Sad, but there ya go.
 
Can you tell me of a time when the legal Ku Klux Klan firebombed a church? See you keep putting me in this untenable position and have NO facts to back your assertions.

This country elected a Muslim to the highest office in this land. Yet, we know there are sects of Muslims that indulge in a religion of hate, paranoia, and fear. So, the bulk of the American people say there are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims. And, despite their religion, we do not judge them. Muslims crash into the World Trade Center and kill over 3000 Americans. There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims. Another Muslim kills 49 patrons of a gay bar in Florida. He injures more than 50. There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims. A soldier of the Muslim faith goes on a rampage killing more than a dozen of his fellow soldiers. There are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims. The Muslims don't pervert religion; they deserve to be defended at all costs.

A church gets firebombed by a rogue racist - and maybe not one even connected to the KKK and ALL those guys are suddenly bad. They are all criminals. If one white guy is bad, the whole lot of them is bad unless they subscribe to the One World / One Race global aspirations of those who believe in the NEW WORLD ORDER / ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. I'm sorry. I'm not buying the argument.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_against_African-American_churches

Here's a list of some of the attacks.

Uh..... no. No we didn't. That's a very silly conspiracy theory.

Yes, ISIS and Al Qaeda pervert Islam.

No, these were not "rogue racists". The KKK is a racist organization deeply involved in dozens of hate crimes and murders.
 
Some people are immune to reason and the historical record.

They simply cannot face them and risk their entire worldview collapsing.

Sad, but there ya go.

Defending the KKK is utter despicable. I had hoped people were better than that
 
Having lived in the south, knowing that white supremacists are not a fringe/extremist group, but a widespread cultural belief that is fairly mainstream in a number of areas, primarily in the south, I'd say the more the merrier.

Organized, Christian religious groups are organized and widespread, which makes the supporting a position more powerful.
Calling out Christian organized religion, which is also coincidentally popular in southern states, to condemn white supremacy, is a good move IMO.

Lol...where they all hiding out, if they are so widespread and "fairly mainstream"?
 
How do you get "White Supremacist" out of protesting taking down a Robt. E. Lee statue?

Try to get a grip on what happened.

Right wingers were protesting the removal of a Robt. E. Lee statue and were attacked by a mob of left wingers. Both sides were mostly white. How do you tell which side is white supremacist?

This a clash between Left Supremacists and Right Supremacists.

Because there was a certain amount there that are literally of the KKK level of white supremacists.
 
Because there was a certain amount there that are literally of the KKK level of white supremacists.

And a certain amount that are literally of the BlackLivesMatter level of Black Supremacists.

So?

:ind:
 
Defending the KKK is utter despicable. I had hoped people were better than that

I'll tell you what is really despicable. It is when people LIE against their fellow man and then condemn the people who have the guts to call you out, knowing that you will misrepresent the issue. A rotten filthy lie, backed up by nothing.

So far, NOBODY has linked the actual KKK to a bombing or burning. We don't need lists of individuals that are connected to the KKK. Were those individuals also linked to mainstream churches?

Let me end the B.S. right here and right now. I'm not a member of the KKK. I'm not sure I can even fit into any category of white nationalist, supremacist, etc. Too many whites are bottom of the barrel types.

What I do know is that I've looked for balance and perspective. When you go in search of the truth you can ALWAYS find some political propaganda prostitute preying upon the fears, ignorance, and bias of those who have been programmed, Pavlovian style, to respond to certain stimuli rather than to act rationally. And those who buy into the snake oil are too stupid to understand what the big attraction is to white supremacy - be it alt-right, white nationalist, or outright full bore white supremacist.

When the youth of this nation look at the easily debunked B.S. the kosher conservatives bring to the table, they have virtually nowhere else to turn. So they reject that kind of antiquated and amateur way of responding and seek a more honest and balanced answer - even when it means turning to the more socially acceptable racists.
 
Having lived in the south, knowing that white supremacists are not a fringe/extremist group, but a widespread cultural belief that is fairly mainstream in a number of areas, primarily in the south, I'd say the more the merrier.

Organized, Christian religious groups are organized and widespread, which makes the supporting a position more powerful.
Calling out Christian organized religion, which is also coincidentally popular in southern states, to condemn white supremacy, is a good move IMO.


You must have been here long ago then.... things have changed.
 
And a certain amount that are literally of the BlackLivesMatter level of Black Supremacists.

So?

:ind:

Don't know what more is needed. You asked, I answered.
 
I'll tell you what is really despicable. It is when people LIE against their fellow man and then condemn the people who have the guts to call you out, knowing that you will misrepresent the issue. A rotten filthy lie, backed up by nothing.

So far, NOBODY has linked the actual KKK to a bombing or burning. We don't need lists of individuals that are connected to the KKK. Were those individuals also linked to mainstream churches?

Let me end the B.S. right here and right now. I'm not a member of the KKK. I'm not sure I can even fit into any category of white nationalist, supremacist, etc. Too many whites are bottom of the barrel types.

What I do know is that I've looked for balance and perspective. When you go in search of the truth you can ALWAYS find some political propaganda prostitute preying upon the fears, ignorance, and bias of those who have been programmed, Pavlovian style, to respond to certain stimuli rather than to act rationally. And those who buy into the snake oil are too stupid to understand what the big attraction is to white supremacy - be it alt-right, white nationalist, or outright full bore white supremacist.

When the youth of this nation look at the easily debunked B.S. the kosher conservatives bring to the table, they have virtually nowhere else to turn. So they reject that kind of antiquated and amateur way of responding and seek a more honest and balanced answer - even when it means turning to the more socially acceptable racists.

Nobody is "lying" about the KKK. Members of that organization have repeatedly been arrested and prosecuted for everything from arson to murder to assault.

It's rather telling how desperate you are to defend the KKK, despite the fact that the organization's members have repeatedly conducted all manners of hate crimes, including bombing churches.

There is no "easily debunked bs" unless, of course, you are talking about the easily debunked bs that the Klan and other white supremacists spew.

And no, the KKK is neither honest nor balanced.
 
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