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Have abrahamic faiths and multiculturalism cucked the west?

OlNate said:
Well, it's been an interesting conversation, and thanks for not being the type of atheist who feels most vindicated when being as nasty as possible to religious folks...hehe... I'm not sure we'll find common ground on everything, primarily because you won't convince me that an organization of any type that encourages people to be the best, most decent version of themselves is a bad thing, and because I won't convince you that the Church inspires folks to be better than they would have been without it. :)

I fully acknowledge and work against the negative elements that have been added to the original message over the centuries...you should see the conversations I have with "Christians" who weaponized the Bible, they are far less civil than the chat you and I have had...hehe...for lots of reasons, but not the least of which is that they make these conversations with folks like you that much more difficult...hehe... But I'm not one for throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and I've seen, and still see, a lot of positive stuff coming out of many of our denominations, as well as from other religions.

If I could offer any (highly unsolicited) advice, it would be to consider that contribution as well when you rail against us, or any other religion that commits itself to doing good work in their communities, in the name of their god. Religion isn't going away any time soon, despite your "albatross" designation, and the polarization between certain groups of atheists and certain groups of religious types is unnecessary. My hope is that eventually folks will all be secure enough in their own belief (or lack of belief) systems that they won't need to constantly brawl with "the other side" in order to validate their own, and we go to the part where we all just live and let live, working together to eliminate as much of the negativity in the world as possible, regardless of where it originates, even if that means taking a long hard look at ourselves. Maybe on this we can agree?
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As far as i am concerned a person is free to believe whatever they want. In fact i have found that with christianity it is a case of people believing whatever they want and somehow twisting the words of the bible to fit that belief. As such i try to start every conversation with a new theist from the view of an ignostic.

I could not care less for an imaginary god. Only the theist who claims reason or evidence can be found for their belief. When really all it is, is faith. And i do not care to argue with a theist who has nothing but faith. But of those who wish to force their beliefs on me by making them a law of the country i would turn militant and fight hard to stop it.

While there are many theists who do good work the work they do is not necessarily done in the name of a god. Being charitable or giving of their own to others are good work done by any person spiritual or not. But then there is the other, the work christians call good but are really only a selfishness done in the name of a god. Work such as trying to stop gay marriage or abortions. the enslavement of women and ownership of children, because a god said so.

Live and let live will depend on what kind of negativity your god wants.
 
sailA said:
Judaism and Christianity are Abrahamic, Islam is not. Throwing this out there for debate. Please, feel free to engage.
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Ok i will engage.
Abrahamic religions - New World Encyclopedia
The Abrahamic religions refer to three sister monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) that claim the prophet Abraham (Hebrew: Avraham אַבְרָהָם ; Arabic: Ibrahim ابراهيم ) as their common forefather.
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When you say throwing out you mean throwing out like you would throw the garbage out, right?
 
sailA said:
Judaism and Christianity are Abrahamic, Islam is not. Throwing this out there for debate. Please, feel free to engage.
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If not the Abrahamic god, then who is Islam worshiping? It really doesn't matter, though, because separating Islam does not make Judaism or Christianity any less fictional or dangerous to civil, secular society. At best, it's an argument akin to claiming that because something is not dumb, for one specific reason, that it must be smart or that because it is dumb for a specific reason, that anything not sharing that particular feature is smart.

Innocence by disassociation is not the same thing as innocence.
 
soylentgreen said:
In fact i have found that with christianity it is a case of people believing whatever they want and somehow twisting the words of the bible to fit that belief.
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There...that's the nail and you've hit it on the head. While I won't say this is a generalization that fits most Christians, it certainly does describe the folks that drive the most negativity, and the most noise. However, just like not all Muslims are terrorists, neither are all Christians Westboro. I think that if you consider what I've said from the context of the notion you've just put across, it might all make a little more sense.

soylentgreen said:
I could not care less for an imaginary god. Only the theist who claims reason or evidence can be found for their belief. When really all it is, is faith. And i do not care to argue with a theist who has nothing but faith. But of those who wish to force their beliefs on me by making them a law of the country i would turn militant and fight hard to stop it.

While there are many theists who do good work the work they do is not necessarily done in the name of a god. Being charitable or giving of their own to others are good work done by any person spiritual or not. But then there is the other, the work christians call good but are really only a selfishness done in the name of a god. Work such as trying to stop gay marriage or abortions. the enslavement of women and ownership of children, because a god said so.

Live and let live will depend on what kind of negativity your god wants.
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Perhaps one thing that would help your understanding would be the different between denominations. For example, my mother is a minister in the Lutheran Church (not exactly the position you would expect to find an enslaved woman), which both performs gay marriages, and ordains gay ministers. You should also read the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America's stance on abortion, you might be surprised (specifically check out the Social Statement .pdf file).

https://www.elca.org/en/Faith/Faith-and-Society/Social-Statements/Abortion

All of this is just to show that while what you say certainly describes some denominations, it does not describe all, and so your assessment falls into the same trap that all generalizations fall into.

At any rate, once again, thanks for the chat. I think we've kinda dominated this thread here long enough, but I'd be happy to continue with you in PM's. Cheers...I'll pray for you! (lol, sorry, couldn't resist) :)
 
sailA said:
Judaism and Christianity are Abrahamic, Islam is not. Throwing this out there for debate. Please, feel free to engage.
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Why would you say that??? Their traditions include Abraham, and is monotheistic.
 
soylentgreen said:
Interesting theory but not one shared by the religion. genesis 3:17-19 clearly suggests that agriculture is a curse.

genesis 3:17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

Which in turn would suggest that agriculture began from the start before the story of babel.
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Adam did not plant the tree of knowledge.
 
Jews, Muslims, and Christians are of Abrahamic faith. Jews were given more Commandments.

Many historians consider American Military actions excessive, but Genesis 27:40 "By your sword you shall live" was Esau's blessing. Western Civilization comes from Esau -- Abraham's grandson and Israel's twin brother.
 
whateverdude said:
I would say that most of America's values come from the great enlightenment. At least most good ones.
I mean, yea... Judeo-Christian values have a role in our history. Also, the Third Reich played a role in German history. Does that make it a good thing?
I mean, racism, sexism, genocide, slavery, homophobia... There's your christian legacy.

Freedom of speech, compassion, equality, acceptance, personal liberty, economic freedom, freedom of and from religion, the constitution...
We have to thank the Great Enlightenment for that.
Not just America, but the entire west.
What positive things have any of the abrahamic faiths brought us that wasn't here already?
The church preserving some science?
Yea... they preserved some science that would have advanced better without them. They brought the world back. The Greeks had already began discovering that the world was round yet the Church brought us back thousands of years.
I'd say the west got cucked HARD by Christianity... which is the embodiment of multiculturalism. It's western ideas, mixed with semetic non-sense faith. Multiculturalism created Christianity

Christianity has left nothing positive in American history.
I would challenge anyone to read the bill of rights and tell me how it relates specifically to Christianity?
I mean, what parts of our constitution are inspired directly from Christian doctrine, not the general idea of God. The idea of God giving every single man rights is far more akin to Deism than
In fact, I would say Deism is the greatest western faith.
It's better than atheism and religion.

Also, how "western" is Christianity?
It was adapted from a Jewish zombie cult. It's origins come from the semetic people, not the west.
How American Christians Were Manipulated Into Loving Israel
And Judaism is just as bad.
The dispensationalist teachings of the west has tricked us into supporting the Israeli zionist machine. The globalists are jumping in joy at their foolishness.

We've have been cucked threefold. We were cucked by Constantine the Great into allowing Christianity to violently dominate the west
We've been cucked again by the Zionists.
Now we've been cucked by the muslims
How many times must we be cucked if
I think we must reject ALL abrahamic faiths as perversions of western society. The jews, muslims, and christians have NOTHING to offer us. And we have EVERYTHING to offer them.
WE modernized them... We made them peaceful. If it weren't for us, they'd be acting the same way they were in the inquistion. It's western philosophy, not christianity, that makes a good society
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so every time some one bitches about multiculturalism i wonder

how do you keep this

Freedom of speech, compassion, equality, acceptance, personal liberty, economic freedom, freedom of and from religion

if you try to stamp out mutlicultrlism?
 
OlNate said:
There...that's the nail and you've hit it on the head. While I won't say this is a generalization that fits most Christians, it certainly does describe the folks that drive the most negativity, and the most noise. However, just like not all Muslims are terrorists, neither are all Christians Westboro. I think that if you consider what I've said from the context of the notion you've just put across, it might all make a little more sense.



Perhaps one thing that would help your understanding would be the different between denominations. For example, my mother is a minister in the Lutheran Church (not exactly the position you would expect to find an enslaved woman), which both performs gay marriages, and ordains gay ministers. You should also read the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America's stance on abortion, you might be surprised (specifically check out the Social Statement .pdf file).

https://www.elca.org/en/Faith/Faith-and-Society/Social-Statements/Abortion

All of this is just to show that while what you say certainly describes some denominations, it does not describe all, and so your assessment falls into the same trap that all generalizations fall into.

At any rate, once again, thanks for the chat. I think we've kinda dominated this thread here long enough, but I'd be happy to continue with you in PM's. Cheers...I'll pray for you! (lol, sorry, couldn't resist) :)
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I agree that because it is the ones who are the most negative they usually make the most noise. But regardless of whether it is something negative or something positive it is still, in both cases, something that has been twisted to fit their personal interpretation.
 
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