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Why do religons need to indoctrinate children?

I don't see it as indoctrination if your parents take you to church and teach you what they believe. You have the free will to accept it or not.
You likely can't see it that way. But it is very much that way. And I wasn't talking about parents teaching their children what they believe. I was talking about parents forcing their children to accept it.

Your last statement kind of elements the need for just about all therapy. If your parents beat you it shouldn't really effect you because you have free will.

And, anyway, I don't know why you're throwing "religions" under the bus when your experience was with just one group.
Because they all rely on indoctrination. Nobody would believe this nonsense if they weren't taught to at a very early age.
 
My parents converted to catholicism when I was about 10 years old. They felt it was their duty to have me baptized. But in order to do that I had to first be confirmed through catechism classes. In these classes the teachers explained what catholics believe. Under duress from my parents I made sure that I said all the magic words and played along. But then came the day of my confirmation. I had to stand in front of the church and agree to follow catholicism. I didn't realize then what a sham it all was. So naturally I became devoted to the chuch. When I turned 18 i was 6 months from graduating high school. I decided to attend Wyotech for their diesel program. While away, I only ever attended church when my parents came to visit. I met a young man that really seemed to like me. Up until this point I never gave into my sexual proclivities. I don't think he did either. After a six mouth emotional roller coaster ride that a first relationship is, I finished up my remaining class and returned home to lick my wounds. Hoping that relationship has ridden me of any desires for the same sex. But once my heart had healed my eyes started catching handsome young men again. I was told devoting myself to my religon would help. Being 22 and new to my career field i gave it a shot though after a few weeks the desires returned. I was encouraged to date some women. I was told that if I had some experiences with ladies that were good I would stop feeling this way about men. After dating women with no luck, it only made me long for a relationship with a man more. Women don't love like men do. After a few rocky relationships with a couple women, I felt like I was manipulating them and using them for my own selfishness. I couldn't live with myself. So I either had to accept it or be celibate. I tried celibacy for a while, up until I met someone. It was a couple months. And I started spending more and more time worth this someone and it felt good, like it worked very well. And then we kissed. I all the sudden felt immense guilt having walked away from the church I didn't really get why. I dodged his calls. Unroll one day I listened to a voice mail from him. Where he admitted to loving me. So I had to come out. I gathered my resolve and just did it. My parents were a bit iffy about it, but nobody else really cared.

But I still had this guilt gnawing at me, causing me to lose sleep. It had to be adressed. After opening up to my partner he said it like it was the simplest thing in the world (Because it was) I just didn't want to let go of this religon I worked so hard to be part of but it became a millstone around my neck.

It's taken a couple of years to server that connection. But more and more I see religion's ugliness and hatefulness. I gave them a number of years, missed out on a lot of life and they just turned their back on me at every corner.

I can't say I'm atheist, i likely never will be. The idea of a God was far too deeply ingrained in me to likely ever let it go. But I've no connecting to religion at this point and the more I question it the weaker is frameworks are.

I don't intend this to insult religious people out there, and frankly you shouldn't be. It's all really my perspective. And you have likely never been at odds with it.

But why is it so important to indoctrinate children? If it was truth it would not need to be force fed and programed into children to the extent that it is? Right?

It is odd that you blame a (the?) church for the actions of your parents. It seems quite appropriate that your parents would expose you to their chosen religion among the many other activities that they exposed you to and hoped that you would benefit from. The church did not take you from your parents in order to "indoctrinate" you - your parents simply took you along with them to their church.
 
But just because he is scientifically trained doesn't mean that everything he does comes from the scientific method. He can be out of his mind when it comes to religion like a lot of people are. If you actually apply the scientific method, skepticism and critical thinking to religion, you can never come to the conclusion that religion is true. He's not religious because he's a scientist, he's religious in spite of his being a scientist. He ought to know better.

The only thing that has become apparent is your bigotry against those who have religious beliefs.
 

My respect and sympathy for your story.

If ever there was a stupid argument it is that we choose our sexuality. I cannot help the fact that if a woman enters the room a big part of my brain tells me about her breeding potential. A very loud part. I presume it is the same for you and men. I cannot be something else. No amout of training will ever change the thing about women for me.

You are not at all guilty of anything in this. Good luck to you. And that is from a naturally homphobic man. My problem, and a little one. I'll deal with it.

The meam of religion needs to survive in the evolution of ideas. If it is not indoctrinated at a suceptible age then it will mostly die very quickly. That is why the religions which have survived for so many years focus heavily on that. The rest did not make it.

Thank you, but I'm viewing this as more of am awakening than a sad story.

I have no idea why I'm homosexual. Whether it was born or bred is of little concern to me. I simply am. Carrying around religious guilt is like carrying a bag of heirloom bricks. All I have to do is realize they are just bricks and I don't need them. Setting them down isn't all that easy either.
 
You likely can't see it that way. But it is very much that way. And I wasn't talking about parents teaching their children what they believe. I was talking about parents forcing their children to accept it.

Your last statement kind of elements the need for just about all therapy. If your parents beat you it shouldn't really effect you because you have free will.

Because they all rely on indoctrination. Nobody would believe this nonsense if they weren't taught to at a very early age.

No one can force you to believe anything. You might feel forced to pretend like you believe it, though.
 
Oh - I thought you were talking about the Bible.

Who teaches their child that 2 + 2 = 5 anyway?

That too. People who teach their kids that the planet is 6000 years old are teaching a lie. People who teach their kids that they should avoid medical treatment because some imaginary man in the sky will magic them back to health are teaching a lie. The list of lies is very long.
 
Like what? And prove that it has no validity.

Are you saying that you think the Bible has any scientific validity whatsoever? All of it? Do tell.
 
Are you saying that you think the Bible has any scientific validity whatsoever? All of it? Do tell.

Are you answering a question with a question? :)
 
The only thing that has become apparent is your bigotry against those who have religious beliefs.

You say it like opposing irrational stupidity is a bad thing.
 
Are you answering a question with a question? :)

No, my question is directly related to yours. Do you seriously think that the Bible, or any religious book at all, is intellectually defensible?
 
No, my question is directly related to yours. Do you seriously think that the Bible, or any religious book at all, is intellectually defensible?

I'll say it again: no values that you hold are intellectually defensible. That you hold them at all makes you irrational. And against the infinity which is all knowledge and perfect reason, any degree of irrationality is, in all practical terms, the same as any other.
 
But why is it so important to indoctrinate children? If it was truth it would not need to be force fed and programed into children to the extent that it is? Right?

Mainstream Christian religious teachings are not usually intended as "indoctrination." They are beliefs that are intended to be a path to 'eternal life' and reward. Therefore if you go about thinking about them in a critical manner, or refuse to teach your children about it -- Well that's just dumb behavior that's going to land you in trouble. So why do it in the first place?

Regardless I'm happy that you're finding your way out of religious beliefs. For as difficult and emotionally taxing as the process is - In the long run, the introspection that is forced upon you by the loss of religious beliefs is incredibly maturing and allows you to grow greatly as an individual.
 
Try religious practice that doesn't make you pledge allegiance and give 15% of your money. You don't need a middle man.
Well that eliminates all christian denominations Islam, and Judaism.

IMO, the CC 'indoctrinate' children so the church leaders can continue to live in opulence.
So why do other christian religons do it?
 
Everyone "indoctrinates" their children to certain beliefs.

I know of one family who brainwashed their kids into believing that Atheism is real!
 
No, it's not.
So there are Christian religons that encourage their followers to question them objectivly and critically? Or do they only say that to people that have been brought into the fold or programed from the fatty they were born?



I didn't miss the question. The bolded part is true of any value system, INCLUDING, as you put it, "being kind." If being kind is true, why does it need to be taught?
Because being selfish and cruel are true as well.
 
I'll say it again: no values that you hold are intellectually defensible. That you hold them at all makes you irrational. And against the infinity which is all knowledge and perfect reason, any degree of irrationality is, in all practical terms, the same as any other.

Yeah...that's my answer too. ^^
 
Well that eliminates all christian denominations Islam, and Judaism.

No, it doesn't. I hold no allegiance to my church nor do I give 10% or 15% of my money to them.
 
So there are Christian religons that encourage their followers to question them objectivly and critically?

Yes. My pastor is always saying that he doesn't know everything and not take his word for it.
 
So there are Christian religons that encourage their followers to question them objectivly and critically?

Sure. All of my religious instructors, save for one, did.

Or do they only say that to people that have been brought into the fold or programed from the fatty they were born?

I don't know what that means.


Because being selfish and cruel are true as well.

So why not teach selfishness and cruelty, too, if you're teaching kindness? If it's true, it's true.
 
It is odd that you blame a (the?) church for the actions of your parents. It seems quite appropriate that your parents would expose you to their chosen religion among the many other activities that they exposed you to and hoped that you would benefit from. The church did not take you from your parents in order to "indoctrinate" you - your parents simply took you along with them to their church.

They apologized and told me they were wrong. I still have a relationship with my parents. The church remains hard and resolute against me.
 
I know of one family who brainwashed their kids into believing that Atheism is real!

Atheism is real. It's a philosophical position that exists and that which individuals, like myself, can subscribe.

What I believe you meant to say was, "... into believe that God isn't real."

Which is hardly surprising. It doesn't take much effort to do so. For example, indigenous Inuits before contact with Europeans in ~16th Century did not believe in gods or deities. Their religious beliefs never moved beyond animistic beliefs. An Inuit child would have never needed to be told that God didn't exist - the concept of God simply hadn't been invented in Inuit society.
 
No one can force you to believe anything. You might feel forced to pretend like you believe it, though.

So children aren't effected by their environment at all? Seems you need to tell the behavioral sciences that, they seem to think environment does shape thinking.
 
They apologized and told me they were wrong. I still have a relationship with my parents. The church remains hard and resolute against me.

You do realize "the church" is anyone who follows Jesus Christ, right? I think what you meant to say was "Catholic leaders".
 
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