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Atheists' plans.[W:296]

SCitizen said:
Circumcision is not harmful. As a result of circumcision, millions of people have been saved from contracting HIV.

Circumcision decreases the risk of sexual addiction.
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First, circumcision does not prevent HIV, some studies show it can reduce the transmission of it in countries that don't have access to other forms of protection, but in modern nations where condoms are readily available, and testing can be done there are better more reliable ways of preventing it.

Second, virtually all the other problems that circumcision was supposed to have prevented hundreds of years ago are non-issues in this day and age.

Third, Where exactly is this piece of legislation that is attempting to ban circumcision? I think you'll find few if any Atheists support it even if such a thing exists.

Lastly, whether circumcision is harmful or not is highly debatable. When something happens to you at birth, you may not recognize it as harmful as you have no frame of reference to compare it to. However there is some evidence to conclude that circumcision can hinder sexual pleasure, and limit ejaculatory control. Not enough evidence to justify a ban on the procedure, but enough to seriously consider making that decision for your child. Particularly if you live in western nations.
 
it's just me said:
How can abstinence not work?
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Abstinence works, but abstinence only sexual education doesn't work. Turns out just because you tell young people not to have sex doesn't mean they will actually listen to you. In fact telling children not to have sex is a pretty good way to make them think it's something they should do in order to be rebellious. Better to teach them how to have safer sex if they're going to have sex. You can also inform them that there is no way to have completely safe sex, but only the naive will assume that's actually going to work.

Exhibit A: The Palin family.
 
MrWonka said:
Abstinence works, but abstinence only sexual education doesn't work. Turns out just because you tell young people not to have sex doesn't mean they will actually listen to you. In fact telling children not to have sex is a pretty good way to make them think it's something they should do in order to be rebellious. Better to teach them how to have safer sex if they're going to have sex. You can also inform them that there is no way to have completely safe sex, but only the naive will assume that's actually going to work.

Exhibit A: The Palin family.
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It's amazing how much willpower kids can have when a cop knocks on the window of the car or when the old man pulls into the driveway. And, of you're a man, contemplating paying child support for the next 18 to 22 years for a kid you may never see again if she decides not to get the abortion if the condom breaks, or, if you're a woman, raising a child by yourself if he decides not to hang around.

There ARE life changing consequences no matter how much you trivialize them. Does anybody talk about them or does everybody believe abortion solves everything?
 
it's just me said:
It's amazing how much willpower kids can have when a cop knocks on the window of the car or when the old man pulls into the driveway.
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Not sure exactly what you seem to think this means, but contrary to the beliefs of police and fathers every where your children disobey you all the time without your knowledge. Only an incredibly naive person would assume their children follow all their orders.

it's just me said:
And, of you're a man, contemplating paying child support for the next 18 to 22 years for a kid you may never see again if she decides not to get the abortion if the condom breaks, or, if you're a woman, raising a child by yourself if he decides not to hang around.

There ARE life changing consequences no matter how much you trivialize them. Does anybody talk about them or does everybody believe abortion solves everything?
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Nobody is trivializing consequences, but your scare tactics do not work anywhere close to as well as you seem to think they do. The stats show that teen pregnancy rates tend to be higher in southern conservative states where abstinence only education is the most prominent. This method doesn't work.
 
MrWonka said:
Not sure exactly what you seem to think this means, but contrary to the beliefs of police and fathers every where your children disobey you all the time without your knowledge. Only an incredibly naive person would assume their children follow all their orders.



Nobody is trivializing consequences, but your scare tactics do not work anywhere close to as well as you seem to think they do. The stats show that teen pregnancy rates tend to be higher in southern conservative states where abstinence only education is the most prominent. This method doesn't work.
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In fact the bible belt also has the highest incidence of incest, divorce due to infidelity, internet porn use among other "sins".
 
chromium said:
That is such a vastly gross exaggeration. Almost everyone who lucks out from getting HIV once goes on to be careless again and gets it eventually. Then there's the fact the difference in infection rate is microscopic
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The difference is very big. Scientific studies show that circumcision reduces HIV risk 2.5 times. Thus, in areas where circumcision is the norm there was much less HIV pandemic.

About 10 million people are alive due to this fact alone.
 
SCitizen said:
Many Atheists want to ban some religious practices.
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As long as we maintain seperation of Church and State, I could care less if parents want to indoctranate their off spring, its their choice. I was raised and atheist, and brought my son up to not fall for some guy in the sky, that was my choice.
 
SCitizen said:
The difference is very big. Scientific studies show that circumcision reduces HIV risk 2.5 times. Thus, in areas where circumcision is the norm there was much less HIV pandemic.

About 10 million people are alive due to this fact alone.
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HIV has come and gone as a deadly threat in so brief a time that i doubt this even crossed the mind of many parents or doctors. We're talking a little more than a generation. You're certainly crediting the wrong intentions if you're including say people in Europe, who have never been circumcised, not because of a response to HIV but because it's just never happened there

In fact, the # of HIV cases in Europe is peaking now. The uncut can still get HIV, because most people who get it have unprotected sex more than once, go figure

Really if you want something to credit, it should be condoms
 
MrWonka said:
Not sure exactly what you seem to think this means, but contrary to the beliefs of police and fathers every where your children disobey you all the time without your knowledge. Only an incredibly naive person would assume their children follow all their orders.
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It's obvious that you didn't get it, and if you have kids you probably didn't have much of an influence on them. No, the point was that kids can summon a tremendous amount of willpower given the proper stimulation.

Nobody is trivializing consequences, but your scare tactics do not work anywhere close to as well as you seem to think they do.
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"Scare tactics"? These are real world consequences and you ARE trivializing them.

The stats show that teen pregnancy rates tend to be higher in southern conservative states where abstinence only education is the most prominent. This method doesn't work.
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Interestingly, the teen birth rates in the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida are about the same as they are in the west and midwest. Teen birth rates are highest among blacks and hispanics. They must have gotten all of the "abstinence only" education.
 
it's just me said:
It's obvious that you didn't get it, and if you have kids you probably didn't have much of an influence on them. No, the point was that kids can summon a tremendous amount of willpower given the proper stimulation.



"Scare tactics"? These are real world consequences and you ARE trivializing them.



Interestingly, the teen birth rates in the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida are about the same as they are in the west and midwest. Teen birth rates are highest among blacks and hispanics. They must have gotten all of the "abstinence only" education.
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I know both Trey and Bristol Palin got their 'abstinence only' education, their mother was a great pusher of that.
 
RAMOSS said:
I know both Trey and Bristol Palin got their 'abstinence only' education, their mother was a great pusher of that.
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So, no real response...
 
it's just me said:
So, no real response...
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I was just pointing out that, well, your claims are not all that correct.

Let's look at 'birth rate by state'. If you take a look at this map https://thenationalcampaign.org/data/compare/1701

Well, although several of the Midwest states do very well, several of them do not. The places where the teen birth rate is the highest is most of the Southern states. 9 out of top 10 lowest teen birth rates are in the north east. While it isn't a 100% correlation, the places that have abstinence only education tend to be the worse when it comes to high teen pregnancy rates. If you investigate further, although the states that have low teen birth rates and abstinence only education in school, they also have other programs to cover informing teens. Wisconsin , for example, does have a sex education program, but it also allows stressing abstinence in addition to other methods, so Wisconsin isn't quite 'abstinence only'.

Now Sarah Palin was a big pusher in Abstinent only education, and guess what?? Alaska ranked 40 out of 50. Her own kids 'fell' so to speak.

Minnosota, another Midwest state with low teen birthrate has a section on sex education when it comes to STD/STI prevention, so that isn't abstinence only.

So, sex education programs, even if it isn't directly part of the school system, is part of the lower birth rates among teens.
 
RAMOSS said:
I was just pointing out that, well, your claims are not all that correct.

Let's look at 'birth rate by state'. If you take a look at this map https://thenationalcampaign.org/data/compare/1701

Well, although several of the Midwest states do very well, several of them do not. The places where the teen birth rate is the highest is most of the Southern states. 9 out of top 10 lowest teen birth rates are in the north east. While it isn't a 100% correlation, the places that have abstinence only education tend to be the worse when it comes to high teen pregnancy rates. If you investigate further, although the states that have low teen birth rates and abstinence only education in school, they also have other programs to cover informing teens. Wisconsin , for example, does have a sex education program, but it also allows stressing abstinence in addition to other methods, so Wisconsin isn't quite 'abstinence only'.

Now Sarah Palin was a big pusher in Abstinent only education, and guess what?? Alaska ranked 40 out of 50. Her own kids 'fell' so to speak.

Minnosota, another Midwest state with low teen birthrate has a section on sex education when it comes to STD/STI prevention, so that isn't abstinence only.

So, sex education programs, even if it isn't directly part of the school system, is part of the lower birth rates among teens.
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As usual, you are misrepresenting the argument for your own political purposes. I never said anything about "abstinence only education", I said abstinence works if you do it. Period. The other poster brought up "abstinence only education".
 
it's just me said:
As usual, you are misrepresenting the argument for your own political purposes. I never said anything about "abstinence only education", I said abstinence works if you do it. Period. The other poster brought up "abstinence only education".
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That is correct.... but the point was that.. well, the best way to getting abstenice is not aabstinecne only education.. and frankly,... teens won't stop sexual activity, no matter what.
 
blarg said:
his push for industrialization before the war seems to have helped

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

how did the military purges or any of the acts of mass murder before during or after the war help?
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The Industrialization has been attained at a great cost. But USSR and the Jews were saved from the Nazis.

The Western help to USSR was equivalent to 3% of Soviet Gross Domestic Product during The War.
 
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