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Conservative christian misogyny

Chomsky said:
Well then, that would seem to explain why it can't be easily understood by you.
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Yes, good the i do not have to keep justifying my stance then. Now any chance of a christian conservative justifying theirs?
 
soylentgreen said:
Even if i were to grant that kind of thinking, which i do not. It still is not the reason given in any of the articles i have read. In fact according to b graham it is precisely becuse they cannot be trusted that this kind of thinking prevails. And this kind of thinking is being justified by quotes in the bible rather than of an assumption of guilt.


How does this equate to respect to assume that you or your partner lack the ability or commitment to honour your vows?
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Biblically speaking, all people are subject to the pull of sin.
His behavior is a public commitment that he will not subject himself to it and that his wife knows he will never do so.

It's not so much about the act itself, as it is what the act implies.
AKA, he will do anything to preserve his wife's honor.

soylentgreen said:
The assumption is all yours. I am simply following the trail of logic.
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I don't believe that is logic.
You're failing to understand his situation, because of some hostility to his religion and who he is.
At least, that's how it comes off.
 
Sweden said:
I think you are a lot of things Soylentgreen but mad is not one of them. You are misguided, ill-informed and wrong headed but quite sane.
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And that's only on a good day.


One thing that puzzles e about modern lefties is they pretend to be for women's freedom and then shriek 'Islamophobia' whenever that vile doctrine is attacked.
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If i were to scream islamphobia then it would be because someone is attacking islam without displaying any good reasoning for it. Because that is what a phobia is, the lack of good reasoning to uphold a negative position.

However, the one thing that amuses me here is that i normally would argue against the islamic culture for its misogynism. Yet here is an example that western christian values are just as bad as that of islamic values.
 
Moon said:
The attacks on the Pences over this are just plain bizarre.
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I find it pointless. There's much bigger fish to fry than bitching about what the VP does in his own personal life. If that's how he wants to carry himself then what the **** ever: I do not care one bit.
 
soylentgreen said:
https://thinkprogress.org/men-avoid-one-on-one-meetings-with-women-d2fce035a2a0


In a way i hope this is a fake news thingy, because it is just far to bizarre to be real.

Unless someone can come up with a better reason for this, then it has to be some kind of weird misogynist thinking. It is either that a mans natural inclination is to screw any women who gives him the least bit of encouragement, ie, dining alone with them. Or they consider women so depraved that they will sleep with any man given half the chance.

There is nothing good in this, the christian men hold no moral high ground with this thinking. In fact it is harmful to women in that in can hold women back from advancing their careers.
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The only "weird thinking" is you thinking there's something wrong with a man wanting to avoid the appearance of any possible impropriety and temptation, in order to be faithful to his wife. That's commendable, not condemnable. :roll:
 
Chomsky said:
Actually, I can understand this way of thinking.

My wife is a conservative Catholic who immigrated from a conservative country. Out of respect for me - her husband - and her marital status, she will not let herself be seen alone in a car with only herself and an unrelated man, nor will she go alone into an environment where there's male drinking.

I initially thought this was over-the-top, but after some discussion I came to see that's her way of showing respect for her marital status. It's not about the possibility of an attack or romantic encounter, but about the appropriateness of her being in a position that could indicate or appear to be an improper relationship.

Early in our marriage I was initially blown away by this, but came to see it as an amazing tribute to her taking our marriage and our marital appearances seriously. So I've not only accepted this, but have come to greatly appreciate her devotion to our marriage! I don't drink, so I'm not in bars much these days, but I've come around to conducting myself in a manner that also shows some similar respect for her. My politics may be liberal enough, but in my personal life I'm actually pretty conservative. She's influenced me even a bit more in that direction, but she's the real deal! And I love her for it! How can I not?
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Definitely a keeper. :mrgreen:
 
soylentgreen said:
https://thinkprogress.org/men-avoid-one-on-one-meetings-with-women-d2fce035a2a0


In a way i hope this is a fake news thingy, because it is just far to bizarre to be real.

Unless someone can come up with a better reason for this, then it has to be some kind of weird misogynist thinking. It is either that a mans natural inclination is to screw any women who gives him the least bit of encouragement, ie, dining alone with them. Or they consider women so depraved that they will sleep with any man given half the chance.

There is nothing good in this, the christian men hold no moral high ground with this thinking. In fact it is harmful to women in that in can hold women back from advancing their careers.
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If that's how Pence chooses to live his life, then that's his prerogative. I'd like to focus on issues that actually matter in the long run.
 
soylentgreen said:
That is why i find this so bizarre. Do you really think that if you talk to someone of the opposite sex then there must be some kind impropriety suggested. Two people cannot just be talking? To me it suggests there is distrust here.
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Quick! Look up. That's the point sailing over your head.
 
soylentgreen said:
I see it as the opposite. Any politician or anyone who makes such a claim that they do not trust themselves to be alone with someone of the opposite sex might just have good reason for thinking that way.
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Are you seriously this ignorant? I'm not buying it. This thread is nothing more than the dissemination of issued talking points.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Biblically speaking, all people are subject to the pull of sin.
.
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A silly notion that has the purpose of trying to make a god needed rather than of any truth.
His behavior is a public commitment that he will not subject himself to it and that his wife knows he will never do so.
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Which tells me his wife has no trust in him. Wonderful relationship they must have.
It's not so much about the act itself, as it is what the act implies.
AKA, he will do anything to preserve his wife's honor.
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Including treating all women as if they cannot wait to jump him or that he himself cannot be left off of the short leash his wife has on him.


I don't believe that is logic.
You're failing to understand his situation, because of some hostility to his religion and who he is.
At least, that's how it comes off
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No quite correct. It is not that i fail to get the thinking. it is that i reject the thinking. And not just out of spite or hate towards religion but because of its inherent unfairness. It basically upholds the idea that women should stay out of business because things that are important in business such as socialising and networking will either put them or the man in a morally unacceptable position.

But on the other hand you are correct that i am hostile to religion. Not per se but only in the sense where i can put up an argument that the ideals of christianity are harmful. In this case the actions are misogynistic and degrade women. So it is not an attack on christianity just because its fun to do but one that has a purpose.
 
soylentgreen said:
Yes, good the i do not have to keep justifying my stance then. Now any chance of a christian conservative justifying theirs?
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There isn't much to explain, Green.

You're attempting to discern and rationalize personal ethical choice.

For example some may prefer a closed marriage based upon fidelity, while others prefer an open marriage and partner swapping. Which one is right, Green?

I really think you're attempting to rationalize more than is here, to be honest.
 
soylentgreen said:
Fratenise-associate or form a friendship with someone, especially when one is not supposed to. So your basically saying that it is inapropriate to talk to women?
Sigh! i am getting the idea that this going to be a few pages again of trying to get people to focus on the point instead of leaping off into some tangent.
Weird culture american christian conservatives have where men cannot be trusted around women.
I am getting an appreciation for the fact that i am not one of these things.
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I think it's very hard for you to understand because you're not from a conservative part of the US. I've lived in Germany for many years now and it's very different here, but where I grew up (Texas) this way of looking at things is extremely common. Nobody is saying a married man can't have female friends, I do, but I'm not going to be say meeting them alone for dinner in a restaurant or at their house unless it's for a very specific business occasion or something. I don't think this is that extreme of a position.
 
TheGoverness said:
If that's how Pence chooses to live his life, then that's his prerogative. I'd like to focus on issues that actually matter in the long run.
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FFS! Good, then go focus on them instead of showing up here and wasting my time over something that i have already pointed out is of no concern. I have given two links now that state this is a cultural value among christian conservatives rather than just some peccadillo of pense's.

To you and anyone else to lazy to bother reading what is said. Go away until you can actually be bothered to inform yourselves before commenting.
 
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Chomsky said:
There isn't much to explain, Green.

You're attempting to discern and rationalize personal ethical choice.

For example some may prefer a closed marriage based upon fidelity, while others prefer an open marriage and partner swapping. Which one is right, Green?

I really think you're attempting to rationalize more than is here, to be honest.
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And why would i not try to discern especially when those values are questionable? The other alternative is that i would treat my partner as if they told the truth when they made a vow of exclusiveness.
 
soylentgreen said:
FFS! Good, then go focus on them instead of showing up here and wasting my time over something that i ave already pointed out is of no concern. I have given two links now that state this is a cultural value among christian conservatives rather than jsut some peccadillo of pense's.

To you and anyone else to lazy to bother reading what is said. Go away until you can actually be bothered to inform yourselves before commenting.
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Eat a Snickers bar, dude. You aren't you when you're hungry.
 
countryboy said:
Definitely a keeper. :mrgreen:
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Thank you!

I married her in only 8 mos after meeting her, after many years of bachelorhood and many other relationships.

But I'm generally pretty pragmatic in life. When I see a good deal, I snatch it up before it gets away!

Why should personal relationships be any different? :mrgreen:
 
I can only imagine what the buzz would be if Pence were seen out dining alone with women not his wife. Buzz from the LEFT, that is. Buzz from the Left, HERE.
 
soylentgreen said:
A silly notion that has the purpose of trying to make a god needed rather than of any truth.
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Irrelevant, it is what he likely believes.

soylentgreen said:
Which tells me his wife has no trust in him. Wonderful relationship they must have.
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Then you don't understand symbolic acts.

soylentgreen said:
Including treating all women as if they cannot wait to jump him or that he himself cannot be left off of the short leash his wife has on him.
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That is not what is happening.
It's a symbolic gesture for his wife.

soylentgreen said:
No quite correct. It is not that i fail to get the thinking. it is that i reject the thinking. And not just out of spite or hate towards religion but because of its inherent unfairness. It basically upholds the idea that women should stay out of business because things that are important in business such as socialising and networking will either put them or the man in a morally unacceptable position.
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Strawman.
No one said women should stay out of business.

soylentgreen said:
But on the other hand you are correct that i am hostile to religion. Not per se but only in the sense where i can put up an argument that the ideals of christianity are harmful. In this case the actions are misogynistic and degrade women. So it is not an attack on christianity just because its fun to do but one that has a purpose.
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You don't know what the word misogyny means.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I think it's very hard for you to understand because you're not from a conservative part of the US. I've lived in Germany for many years now and it's very different here, but where I grew up (Texas) this way of looking at things is extremely common. .
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granted that i am not a conservative, a christian or an american. It would appear that not being any of these it is therefor not my right to question their ideals. Something i might consider if it wasn't for the fact that many here choose to question my own moral position here.
That it is common is not the question but why is it common. Is infidelity the norm there as well?

Nobody is saying a married man can't have female friends, I do, but I'm not going to be say meeting them alone for dinner in a restaurant or at their house unless it's for a very specific business occasion or something. I don't think this is that extreme of a position
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The problem here is that it would appear that even the "unless" is unacceptable.
 
soylentgreen said:
And why would i not try to discern especially when those values are questionable? The other alternative is that i would treat my partner as if they told the truth when they made a vow of exclusiveness.
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Hey, whatever floats your boat. You're the guy making judgment calls here.
 
soylentgreen said:
And why would i not try to discern especially when those values are questionable? The other alternative is that i would treat my partner as if they told the truth when they made a vow of exclusiveness.
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Which values would you consider to be unquestionable in a relatavistic culture?
 
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