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It's okay to criticize Islam.

Chagos said:
I'd hold that, apart from the impossibility of being an enemy to what one holds as not existing, atheists trying to convert believers to their POV are showing an enmity towards the very same by expressing enmity towards their faith. Whether that's actually intended or not matters little, it's about the outcome.

Main reason why the only atheists I can show tolerance for are those that, unless actually invited by believers to act in the opposite manner, shut the hell up about it all.

That works in the opposite direction just as well.

Certain factions within do, that doesn't go for the whole faith. Yes, exactly the same point.

Muslim, Christian, Atheist, Pastafarian............doesn't matter who does it to "the others". If and when s/he does it to the others.

Where tolerance (religious or of whatever other make) is always about the freedom of the others, it cannot be a one-way street.

Unfortunately proselytizing is part of two of the monotheistic religions (of Judaism not so much, if at all) and will (and must) of necessity clash with the concept. Just as unfortunately a certain set of atheists put themselves into the same conundrum. All the more sad seeing how they're the ones faced with such a requirement the least.
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Don't get me wrong here. My argument wasn't against Islam itself. I recognize that just like in any other aspect of life...no one or even no one group thinks the same. ;) My comments were mainly just directed at what was said and showing how it could be viewed. I could care less about Islam itself. I see the idiots claiming that they're doing X "in the name of allah" to be as idiotic as when Christian claim to be doing Y "in the name of god". But then I've always viewed organized religion to be bunk so....maybe I'm biased? :shrug:
 
Kal'Stang said:
Don't get me wrong here. My argument wasn't against Islam itself. I recognize that just like in any other aspect of life...no one or even no one group thinks the same. ;) My comments were mainly just directed at what was said and showing how it could be viewed. I could care less about Islam itself. I see the idiots claiming that they're doing X "in the name of allah" to be as idiotic as when Christian claim to be doing Y "in the name of god". But then I've always viewed organized religion to be bunk so....maybe I'm biased? :shrug:
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Oh I understood you fine and, on the basis of what you outlined, I'm possibly biased too in the very same direction.

What used to amuse me (but does so less and less) is when fellow atheists go down the very same road of lording it over the others that disagree. With the caveat that just by this conduct they're not my fellows at all. Goes to prove though that zealots (certainly those that show as being) don't necessarily need religion at all.

As to criticizing Islam itself (basis of this thread), of course it's ok to do that. Just as in my book it's ok to criticize Christianity or anything else (atheism included). It's throwing all followers of any of these into the same pot for the purpose of general condemnation and denigration that is NOT ok.

And beware of converts.

As my Granddad (Protestant having married a Catholic converted to Protestantism) used to say "reformed whores, reformed drunks and reformed Catholics are at times simply the most intolerable".

:mrgreen:
 
SheWolf said:
Well, you're temp suspended.

Nothing I am saying is wrong about Islam. I don't know why you can't admit that. If you were able to look at the Quran with an open mind instead being so biased against it, you would understand that everything I have said is factual.

And as far as me discussing "American muslims," well it's obvious why. I live in America. I know American muslims. I recognize all muslims are different. I consider Isis to be barbaric, evil, and destructive. I don't know why are seem mad that I am talking about the muslim American people I know. I don't know anybody in Isis or Al Qaeda. :shrug:
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My suspension is why you finally replied.
'Admit what you're saying is right?'
NO/LOL
I have shown why it's Wrong.
I posted the Pew Poll..
I cited the scriptures of Islam, and explained the periods of the Koran.

You, OTOH, constantly use the anecdote FALLACY ("I know some nice Muslims"), and that's IT.

and I see more recently, you foisted the 21st Century's most used/abused strawman: that someone is claiming all Muslims are terrorists: ISIS/al-Qaeda.
I already cited Pew with the degree to which they ARE Literal and 'radical', if Not "Terrorist."

The Vast majority of Literalists/Islamists are Not terrorists, but nonetheless a threat to Western values of non-violence and tolerance.
Islam's biggest problem is literalism to a book that is less tolerant, and whose enemies are still extant.

The Muslim Brotherhood (who along with the Salafists won the Egyptian election) is not 'terrorist,' but nonetheless fundamentalist, and inconsistent with our values. People who would applaud the Hebdo attack, laws against Insulting Islam, Strict and Brutal Sharia, Death to adulterers/apostates, etc.
"Terrorists" are just the ugly tip of the Islamist iceberg.
 
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Chagos said:
Oh I understood you fine and, on the basis of what you outlined, I'm possibly biased too in the very same direction.
What used to amuse me (but does so less and less) is when fellow atheists go down the very same road of lording it over the others that disagree. With the caveat that just by this conduct they're not my fellows at all. Goes to prove though that zealots (certainly those that show as being) don't necessarily need religion at all.
As to criticizing Islam itself (basis of this thread), of course it's ok to do that. Just as in my book it's ok to criticize Christianity or anything else(atheism included). It's throwing all followers of any of these into the same pot for the purpose of general condemnation and denigration that is NOT ok....
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"Of Course" criticizing Islam is NOT OK in Muslim countries, and wouldn't be here if they had anything to say about it. And they have tried to convince various bodies in the West to outlaw criticism.

Islam's answer to the UN declaration of Human rights.

Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam#Criticism
[.....]
CDHRI has been criticized for being implemented by a set of states with widely disparate religious policies and practices who had "a shared interest in disarming international criticism of their domestic human rights record." Article 24 of the declaration states: "All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Sharia." Article 19 also says: "There shall be no crime or punishment except as provided for in the Sharia."

The CDHRI has been criticised for failing to guarantee freedom of religion, in particular the right of each and every individual to change their religion, as a "fundamental and non-derogable right". In a joint- statement submitted by the Intl Humanist Ethical Union (IHEU).. the Ass'n for World Education (AWE) and the Ass'n of World Citizens (AWC), a number of concerns were raised that the CDHRI Limits Human rights, religious freedom, and freedom of expression... Concludes that "The Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam is clearly an attempt to Limit the rights enshrined in the UDHR and the International Covenants. It can in No sense be seen as complementary to the Universal Declaration." In. 2008, in an article to the United Nations, the Center for Inquiry writes that the CDHRI "Undermines equality of persons and freedom of expression and religion by imposing restrictions on nearly Every human right based on Islamic Sharia law." [....]​

The above is the Mainstream position of Islamic Nations.
 
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Khaled Al Razi said:
I am an Arab ex-muslim atheist from Lebanon.
The religion of Islam is harmful and authoritarian.
Islam doesn't mean peace it simply means that you have to submit to Allah.
Islam has scientific errors wrt the big bang theory and Darwinism and basic biology and geology.
It is inherently misogynistic.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
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Were you Druze?
 
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