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Pope Francis Tells Priests to Have Exorcists on Call

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soylentgreen

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Hawkeye10 said:
I am going to take a wild guess that his "discernment" is my "intuition".
Click to expand...

Is intuitive any better than discernment? You have an instinctive understanding of when someone is possessed? What gives it away the projectile vomiting or the rotating head?
 
soylentgreen said:
Is intuitive any better than discernment? You have an instinctive understanding of when someone is possessed? What gives it away the projectile vomiting or the rotating head?
Click to expand...

I am a Zen Buddhist, I am pretty sure we dont believe in possession.
 
I Googled. "What does Pope Francis mean by 'discernment.'"

From the Loyola Press:

Discernment is a time-honored practice in the Christian tradition. In essence, discernment is a decision-making process that honors the place of God's will in our lives. It is an interior search that seeks to align our own will with the will of God in order to learn what God is calling us to. Every choice we make, no matter how small, is an opportunity to align ourselves with God's will. Here are some tried-and-true pointers that can help you discern God's will. Discernment - Making Inspired Choices

The Discernment of Pope Francis | ncregister.com

Pope Francis Quotes About Discernment | A-Z Quotes
 
Re: Pope Francis Tells Priests to Have Exorcists on Call
soylentgreen, et al,

The Pope demonstrates that he can speak as cryptically as any politician.

You cannot actually tell from one meeting in a confessional booth if someone is demonically possessed unless the demon in control actually wants to make his possession obvious. This is more the Hollywood scenario in which someone comes in and presents hims by speaking curses in Ancient Aramaic.

soylentgreen said:
Pope Francis Tells Priests to Have Exorcists on Call - The Daily Beast
So anyone got any clues on just how we make such a "discernment"?
Click to expand...
(COMMENT)

The "discernment of evil spirits" is the protection against or casting-out of "Diabolus enim et alii daemones" (The devil and the other demons), --- all demons. It is a form of mysticism; one in the triad of spoke of in Posting #3, (God - No God). The mere fact that The Pontiff would make such a reference is evidence that on some level, the religion believes in the possibility of 'demonic possession" in which the anything (persons, places or things) can be possessed is controlled by a demon. This is an undeniable belief in the existence of demons; supernatural evil entities. And exorcism is the means by which the believer and devote command (make use of an adjuration --- authority, command, or menace in the name of God) the demon to alter its actions. Sometimes, the use of a mystical or magic implement is used; King Solomon's Ring. The ring with the King's seal (not to be confused with the Star of David which looks very similar) was believed to have the power to forcibly extract demons from people and objects.

In the case of The "Reformed Exorcism Ritual" for the Church is quite extensive:

•• Determination between possessed or psychotic.

In the first approximation by a local cleric, is using the reasonable man criteria to assess the initial conditions.
This is a case of the church (remarkably similar to Sherlock Holmes) employs a methodology to identify an evil entity of interest among several ones potential sources by excluding or eliminating all other possibilities; including the use of modern medical and psychiatric examinations.
​

•• When the special skill set is required for the adjuration. Pontifical Academy "Regina Apostolorum"

Reasons to Believe is one of those home made Exorcist Manuals.
The Vatican does have Red Book covering the Exorcism Ritual. I've never seen it.
Ten Golden Rules: A Key To The Revised Rite Of Exorcism
​

Interesting Video:
[h=1]IS THIS EVIDENCE OF MIND CONTROL OR REAL DEMONIC POSSESSION [/h]Just My Thought,
Most Respectfully,
R
 
RoccoR said:
Re: Pope Francis Tells Priests to Have Exorcists on Call
soylentgreen, et al,

The Pope demonstrates that he can speak as cryptically as any politician.

You cannot actually tell from one meeting in a confessional booth if someone is demonically possessed unless the demon in control actually wants to make his possession obvious. This is more the Hollywood scenario in which someone comes in and presents hims by speaking curses in Ancient Aramaic.


(COMMENT)

The "discernment of evil spirits" is the protection against or casting-out of "Diabolus enim et alii daemones" (The devil and the other demons), --- all demons. It is a form of mysticism; one in the triad of spoke of in Posting #3, (God - No God). The mere fact that The Pontiff would make such a reference is evidence that on some level, the religion believes in the possibility of 'demonic possession" in which the anything (persons, places or things) can be possessed is controlled by a demon. This is an undeniable belief in the existence of demons; supernatural evil entities. And exorcism is the means by which the believer and devote command (make use of an adjuration --- authority, command, or menace in the name of God) the demon to alter its actions. Sometimes, the use of a mystical or magic implement is used; King Solomon's Ring. The ring with the King's seal (not to be confused with the Star of David which looks very similar) was believed to have the power to forcibly extract demons from people and objects.

In the case of The "Reformed Exorcism Ritual" for the Church is quite extensive:

•• Determination between possessed or psychotic.

In the first approximation by a local cleric, is using the reasonable man criteria to assess the initial conditions.
This is a case of the church (remarkably similar to Sherlock Holmes) employs a methodology to identify an evil entity of interest among several ones potential sources by excluding or eliminating all other possibilities; including the use of modern medical and psychiatric examinations.
​

•• When the special skill set is required for the adjuration. Pontifical Academy "Regina Apostolorum"

Reasons to Believe is one of those home made Exorcist Manuals.
The Vatican does have Red Book covering the Exorcism Ritual. I've never seen it.
Ten Golden Rules: A Key To The Revised Rite Of Exorcism
​

Interesting Video:
[h=1]IS THIS EVIDENCE OF MIND CONTROL OR REAL DEMONIC POSSESSION [/h]Just My Thought,
Most Respectfully,
R
Click to expand...

I am not seeing here anything of real value. The video clip can easily be nothing more than psychosis. No need to involve mysticism.

The other comments is just silly. Basically nothing more than pretending a special skill set is needed for something that has never been proven, what every priest does in every sermon they give.

In the first approximation by a local cleric, is using the reasonable man criteria to assess the initial conditions.
Click to expand...

It is a bit ludicrous to say it is a reasonable man criteria when no good reason is given for possession in the first place other than a superstitious belief in demons.
 
Re: Pope Francis Tells Priests to Have Exorcists on Call
soylentgreen, et al,

Personally, I don't believe in the Supernatural.

soylentgreen said:
I am not seeing here anything of real value. The video clip can easily be nothing more than psychosis. No need to involve mysticism.

The other comments is just silly. Basically nothing more than pretending a special skill set is needed for something that has never been proven, what every priest does in every sermon they give.

It is a bit ludicrous to say it is a reasonable man criteria when no good reason is given for possession in the first place other than a superstitious belief in demons.
Click to expand...
(COMMENT)

I was answering the question (So anyone got any clues on just how we make such a "discernment"?); not introducing my personal opinion. As indicated, none of this information is my information, but is derived from various sources that were linked for your reference. While I did have the opportunity to interview an Exorcist while I was assigned in Europe, none of the information I cited was inconsistent with what he told me.

As indicated, most Exorcist start with the the attempt to eliminate medical and psychiatric. But nearly all requests for exorcisms are based on an initial referral from outside the a religious order or member.

As far as the criticism of the "reasonable man" concept; if there is no "good reason is given for possession" then it is unlikely that a person as reasonable as you would make an initial referral. However, most experienced medical/psychiatric professionals, as well as clerics, often use the principle of sufficient reason (PSR) which most often falls on the side of ruling-out random or unexplained events (supernatural). But in such instances where the exorcists protocol continue, as a matter of last resort.

Relative to the video: I just said the video was interesting. I did not say it was evidence. That was introduced as the production title of the video; not me.

I will resist the urge in future to respond to your queries so as others might provide more meaningful information.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
RoccoR said:
Re: Pope Francis Tells Priests to Have Exorcists on Call
soylentgreen, et al,

Personally, I don't believe in the Supernatural.


(COMMENT)

I was answering the question (So anyone got any clues on just how we make such a "discernment"?); not introducing my personal opinion. As indicated, none of this information is my information, but is derived from various sources that were linked for your reference. While I did have the opportunity to interview an Exorcist while I was assigned in Europe, none of the information I cited was inconsistent with what he told me.

As indicated, most Exorcist start with the the attempt to eliminate medical and psychiatric. But nearly all requests for exorcisms are based on an initial referral from outside the a religious order or member.

As far as the criticism of the "reasonable man" concept; if there is no "good reason is given for possession" then it is unlikely that a person as reasonable as you would make an initial referral. However, most experienced medical/psychiatric professionals, as well as clerics, often use the principle of sufficient reason (PSR) which most often falls on the side of ruling-out random or unexplained events (supernatural). But in such instances where the exorcists protocol continue, as a matter of last resort.

Relative to the video: I just said the video was interesting. I did not say it was evidence. That was introduced as the production title of the video; not me.

I will resist the urge in future to respond to your queries so as others might provide more meaningful information.

Most Respectfully,
R
Click to expand...

I would not expect the information to be inconsistent merely lacking plausability. It is basically when those with mental disorder do or say things that are hard to comprehend. Which as usual with theists when something is hard to explain then incite a religious belief.
The principle of sufficient reason states that everything must have a reason or a cause. Hardly a good way of determining possession unless you are already inclined to that kind of reasoning. So i a not really impressed and would need some evidence that medical/psychiatric professionals would use such a means on someone claiming possession.

The video was not even interesting. It just showed bizarre behaviour rather than anything relevant to this subject.
 
Fishking said:
All I know is that all the movies tells me that you need a Catholic priest to do exorcisms.
Click to expand...

No you do not need a priest, just burn those harry potter books.

The Pope's chief exorcist 'who banished 70,000 demons' and said Vatican was possessed by devil dies aged 91 - Mirror Online
Tributes have been paid to the Catholic Church 's leading exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth, who died on Friday at the age of 91.

The Pope's chief exorcist, who once said the Vatican is possessed by the devil, claimed to have carried out an incredible 70,000 'exorcisms' over his 30-year career.

Father Amorth also claimed Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin were both possessed, saying: "The Devil is invisible. But in the people he possesses he can be seen through pain and blasphemies.He was also ridiculed for saying that yoga was evil and Harry Potter promoted black magic.The Italian priest said reading Harry Potter "opens children's minds to dabbling with the occult and black magic".
Click to expand...
 
Re: Pope Francis Tells Priests to Have Exorcists on Call
Fishking, et al,

Well this is not necessarily true either.

Fishking said:
All I know is that all the movies tells me that you need a Catholic priest to do exorcisms.
Click to expand...
(COMMENT)

Catholics, Jews and Muslims, essentially believe in the very same Supreme Being (SB) and Ultimate Cosmic Creator (UCC) (The God of Abraham). And each has a hierarchy of leadership in the banishment of evil spirits; there are plenty of references to Exorcism in Rabbinical doctrine. Shaman, Ojibwe Midew, Indian Medicine Men, (just to name a few) all perform such functions of an exorcist. Whether you pray to the strength of the Ancestors, or that of the Valkyries in Valhalla, or invoke mystical incantations to the Saints and Angelic supernaturals of the SB/UCC, whatever the deity, the effect and procedures have uncanny parallels. Shamanic sorcery is even practiced by Gypsies, Assyrians, and the ancient Accadians (White Witches). I once saw part of a ritual on the road between Mons and Chevres AB, Belgium; but the encampment was walled-off by Gendarme; so I did not see much.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
RoccoR said:
Re: Pope Francis Tells Priests to Have Exorcists on Call
Fishking, et al,

Well this is not necessarily true either.

(COMMENT)

Catholics, Jews and Muslims, essentially believe in the very same Supreme Being (SB) and Ultimate Cosmic Creator (UCC) (The God of Abraham). And each has a hierarchy of leadership in the banishment of evil spirits; there are plenty of references to Exorcism in Rabbinical doctrine. Shaman, Ojibwe Midew, Indian Medicine Men, (just to name a few) all perform such functions of an exorcist. Whether you pray to the strength of the Ancestors, or that of the Valkyries in Valhalla, or invoke mystical incantations to the Saints and Angelic supernaturals of the SB/UCC, whatever the deity, the effect and procedures have uncanny parallels. Shamanic sorcery is even practiced by Gypsies, Assyrians, and the ancient Accadians (White Witches). I once saw part of a ritual on the road between Mons and Chevres AB, Belgium; but the encampment was walled-off by Gendarme; so I did not see much.

Most Respectfully,
R
Click to expand...

But I've never seen a Hollywood movie where a Jewish rabbi was called in for an exorcism.

(I'm not being serious, btw)
 
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