The futility of Prayer

D_NATURED said:

I respect that way of approaching prayer because spirituality, for many, is too often utterly lacking in introspection and is just a trip to Santa's lap, where we ask for things.

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thanks and I agree that some approaches are more mature than others...from my experience I would say the more mature the faith the wiser the individual

I am an atheist and believe that prayer is an evolved behavior with no more ability to affect the natural world than a birthday wish. So, while I question absolutely its effectiveness outside the skull of the prayer,

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would you agree that if someone prays and changes their behaviour in a positive manner due to that prayer then that would then positively affect the nature world?

True spirituality is about transcending your animal

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I don't think I would view it as transcending our animal since many other "animals" who are viewed as being on a lower scale of evolution seems to do so much better at adding positive to the world

and when you considering whether the person who stole from you needs the stolen object more than you do is a fine start.

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it is a beginning yes but we have much further to go than that ... we have to get past "what is mine is mine alone"

Whether we can agree that god exists, I agree that goodness is found where people learn to cease being entirely self interested.

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agreed

and just for the record I do believe god/gods exist but since there is no certainty we may as well use our beliefs or lack there of as a positive vehicle for self change

_Sal said:

thanks and I agree that some approaches are more mature than others...from my experience I would say the more mature the faith the wiser the individual
would you agree that if someone prays and changes their behaviour in a positive manner due to that prayer then that would then positively affect the nature world?

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No, I don't think you or the natural world are, in any way, affected by prayer. Prayer, as a generic term, can take many forms. If your version of prayer benefits from some introspective quality that you, the human, possess, that's where I give credit.

I don't think I would view it as transcending our animal since many other "animals" who are viewed as being on a lower scale of evolution seems to do so much better at adding positive to the world

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Other animals are incapable of reason in the way that humans are and, as such, don't likely consider "the world" in any fashion. In truth, it is as much our animal nature, the specific human variety, that makes us desire to know what is good and act accordingly. Other animals act in ways that could be called religious behaviours but they don't posess a sharable, evolving moral sense based upon their experiences.

it is a beginning yes but we have much further to go than that ... we have to get past "what is mine is mine alone"

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That's a toughy. We have evolved in a world with finite resources. Capturing and keeping those resources has always been vital to our success. In a sense, our greed is our nature. That's one area where we, as thinking creatures, are able to transcend our animal.

and just for the record I do believe god/gods exist but since there is no certainty we may as well use our beliefs or lack there of as a positive vehicle for self change

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Our species has a long history of believing too. Magic is not real, though, except as an idea that fills in the gaps in our accumulated knowledge.

"You cannot petition the Lord with prayer."

-Jim Morrison The Doors

An apartment building burns down killing all but one family. They respond by saying "it is God's will". Fine, was it God's will to kill the other families?