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Perils of Religion Continued [W:99]

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Re: Perils of Religion Continued

RAMOSS said:
No.. sometimes you can just invoke ideology. It is not religion that gets good people to do bad things.

it is ideology. When it comes to how religion is used by the powers that be, it is just another ideology. The ideology can be theistic or non-theistic in nature. I find that claim that it takes religion to inspire good people to do bad things to be incorrect.
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Even the Nazi's tried to claim god was with them as an incentive for the masses to collude with the evil goals of their odious regime.

Here is an SS belt buckle proclaiming exactly that

Gott_mit_uns2.jpg
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

flogger said:
How many wars have been initiated on an agenda for promoting atheism then ?
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How many ethnic wars did atheism, with its supposed "logic", fail to stop? A ton.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

RAMOSS said:
Absolutely not. The key to remember is 'people are people, and some people suck. ' Trying to pin people's actions on religion or the lack there of in my mind is ignoring the human condition. Some (many???) people are followers, and lack independence and critical thinking skills.
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And yet, people try it all the time.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

Tigerace117 said:
And yet, people try it all the time.
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Yes... when it comes to theism and atheism, there are many people who pull the same error on both sides. .. blaming the other side. That too is the human condition.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

flogger said:
Even the Nazi's tried to claim god was with them as an incentive for the masses to collude with the evil goals of their odious regime.

Here is an SS belt buckle proclaiming exactly that

View attachment 67211458
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So??? Does that mean that ideology alone can't suffice? Admitted, the third reich was one of the great evils, but that does not mean that ideology alone would not suffice. Mao invoked the state, and teh cultural revolution was one of the big evils.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

RAMOSS said:
So??? Does that mean that ideology alone can't suffice? Admitted, the third reich was one of the great evils, but that does not mean that ideology alone would not suffice.
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Yes but invoking religion certainly helped grease the wheels for Nazi ideology. It would have been far less palatable to the bulk of Germans had it not

Mao invoked the state, and teh cultural revolution was one of the big evils
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Yes and that was a political ideology primarily initiated to purge what was seen as communist 'revisionism' within the party and throughout the land. It was a brutal sociopolitical movement that spectacularly failed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

flogger said:
Yes but invoking religion certainly helped grease the wheels for Nazi ideology. It would have been far less palatable to the bulk of Germans had it not



Yes and that was a political ideology primarily initiated to purge what was seen as communist 'revisionism' within the party and throughout the land. It was a brutal sociopolitical movement that spectacularly failed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution
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Yes,,,.. which demosntrates that instead of a religous ideology, you can have a political ideology instead. Religion is merely a type of ideology for motivation.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

RAMOSS said:
Yes,,,.. which demosntrates that instead of a religous ideology, you can have a political ideology instead. Religion is merely a type of ideology for motivation.
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And its a very powerful one. The Nazi's discovered it can be very helpful if you can piggy back God onto your ideology.

Do you know of any war initiated with the agenda of spreading atheism ?
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

flogger said:
And its a very powerful one. The Nazi's discovered it can be very helpful if you can piggy back God onto your ideology.

Do you know of any war initiated with the agenda of spreading atheism ?
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Or, just a political non theistic idea, such as communism.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

flogger said:
Did the USSR or China launch wars intended to spread atheism ?
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THey indended to spread communism.. and part of their state ideology would have been the repression of any opposing ideology... which includes religion.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

RAMOSS said:
THey indended to spread communism.. and part of their state ideology would have been the repression of any opposing ideology... which includes religion.
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Yes but spreading communist ideology and defeating capitalism was their primary goal. Did you know that Stalin reopened the Russian churches during WW2 ?

Far Outliers: Stalin Reinstates the Church, 1942-43
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

flogger said:
Please answer my question ?
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Officially, none. But seeing as that didn't stop any of the other wars, it's rather irrelevant.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

RAMOSS said:
Yes,,,.. which demosntrates that instead of a religous ideology, you can have a political ideology instead. Religion is merely a type of ideology for motivation.
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RAMOSS said:
THey indended to spread communism.. and part of their state ideology would have been the repression of any opposing ideology... which includes religion.
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To be completely fair, the large format attempts at communism in the 20th century were all cults of personality, essentially religions with the state as the god and the Fearless Leader as His prophet.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

flogger said:
But the question wasn't how many wars has atheism stopped ?
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Judging by the antics of atheist states like the Soviet Union and China......not many, if any.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

Realitywins said:
There are some simpering, whimpering Timidthys here who can't face reality and direct language and so I have been banned from my own thread.

Now, where was I?

Most of mankind's problems can be laid at the feet of religion and the religious. Nobody, no society, no organization has ever set out in force to kill, enslave, rape, abuse and condemn others in the name of no belief whatsoever.

All of such atrocities have been done in the name of one imaginary god or another.

Why religion causes so many problems?

"Religion is just another way mankind justifies the imposition of one person's opinion on another." Anon
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Not sure where you got your information.
Here are some of the major killers of the last 75 years.
Sudan-2 million-Government forces
Democratic Republic of Congo 3 million Government forces and ethnic strife
Ethiopia-750,000-Derg communists
Nigeria-1 million-Government forces against Ibo
Rwanda-800,000-ethnic strife-Hutus against Tutsis
Mozambique-1 million-political groups
N. Korea-3 million-political war and government sponsored famine
Afghanistan-700,000-foreign invasion
East Pakistan-1.5 million-Pakistani Army
China-35 million-Chinese government and Red Guards.
Cambodia-2 million-Khmer Rouge (i.e. Govt)
North Vietnam-1 million-Government

I believe that killings by government forces and ethnic strife clearly are more costly than religious strife. The Religion of Peace website that tracks Islamic violence only has 29,000 attacks since 2001 and if the average per attack is 10 dead (as it was in 2015) than perhaps "only" 300,000 or so killed. And the list of top 10 Christian crimes is much smaller yet.
10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men | Alternet
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/genocidespoliticides.html

We need to get away from statism and governmental killing of their own people for political gains.
 
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Re: Perils of Religion Continued

Realitywins said:
There are some simpering, whimpering Timidthys here who can't face reality and direct language and so I have been banned from my own thread.

Now, where was I?

Most of mankind's problems can be laid at the feet of religion and the religious. Nobody, no society, no organization has ever set out in force to kill, enslave, rape, abuse and condemn others in the name of no belief whatsoever.

All of such atrocities have been done in the name of one imaginary god or another.

Why religion causes so many problems?

"Religion is just another way mankind justifies the imposition of one person's opinion on another." Anon
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No. Religion is the most common justification for violence, but violence is all about control. People who have a desire for control will use the most convenient tool to justify and expand their control. Any idea or belief can be used to control others.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

flogger said:
Every German soldier even the SS had inscribed on their belt buckle 'Gott mit uns' (god is with us) so that was certainly not the case there.
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Yes but that was in 1939 a historic tradition but in 1944 an apeal to the almighty. Hitler was a complex lying git.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

Realitywins said:
You are not countering an argument, you are trying to start a new one to divert from the fact religion is a foul pestilence and a boil on the arse of mankind. You tried this on other threads and had your butt handed to you by several posters. Clearly you don`t learn easily...if at all.
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Well, no. He has suceeded in showing that your cliam that all wars are religiously fueld is wrong. Many wars, even most, arre not religious in motive.

That I agree with you that our religious instinct is our greatest weakness is separate to that.
 
Re: Perils of Religion Continued

Moderator's Warning:
Duplicate thread closed. If you wish to continue the discussion please use the original 'Perils of religion' thread in this same sub-forum.
 
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