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Time to replace the outdated ten commandments ?

ataraxia said:
But where does Christianity come into all this?
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Christianity become the dominant philosophy of the west as Rome fell. A child would know that. Sorry.
 
ataraxia said:
That's why, in setting up a system of democracy, the first thing the founding fathers of this country did was take religion out of politics.
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of course that's stupid since the colonies were religious colonies and the Constitution did nothing to prevent religion or religious thinking or the religious values the founders exhibited every second of every day. Without their religious values they might have wanted kill every third person for sport!! Liberal secularism was a gift from Christianity. Canon law had become civil law just as Aristotle had hoped. Now do you understand.
 
James972 said:
Christianity become the dominant philosophy of the west as Rome fell. A child would know that. Sorry.
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Only for during the dark ages of the west. Later, we learned to argue issues on their own merits.
 
James972 said:
Canon law had become civil law just as Aristotle had hoped. Now do you understand.
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Yes, but of course that canon law had in turn come from pagan civil law before that. They just tacked on a "God says" at the beginning. Sorry, but I'm not impressed.
 
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ataraxia said:
Yes, but of course that canon law had in turn come from pagan civil law before that. They just tacked on a "God says" at the beginning. Sorry, but I'm not impressed.
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now one cares if a child is impressed but rather that you learn our values and civil law came to us from Aristotle and Christ, not from the Girl Scouts as you imagine.
 
ataraxia said:
Really? Then what was the Inquisition?
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who cares??????? Did someone tell you religion evolved over night into perfection?????????????????
 
James972 said:
who cares??????? Did someone tell you religion evolved over night into perfection?????????????????
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No. But I believe many believe it suddenly came out of the sky as a revelation.

You disagree? Are you telling me you disagree, and think it evolved through human history, and is only a human construct projected to the divine?

And I just find it amusing that you are using the word "perfection" in regard to religion. Surely you jest.

"The trail of the human serpent is over everything".
- William James
 
ataraxia said:
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No. But I believe many believe it suddenly came out of the sky as a revelation.
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So?????????????? we are not talking about what many believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ataraxia said:
. and think it evolved through human history,
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obviously it evolved since Christ left very little behind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ataraxia said:
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And I just find it amusing that you are using the word "perfection" in regard to religion. Surely you jest.
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actually you said that since there was the Inquisition, religion was mistaken or flawed, as if it was supposed to be perfect!! Isn't thinking fun??
 
James972 said:
So?????????????? we are not talking about what many believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Huh? So you don't think Christianity is a revealed religion, but just a human construct?
 
ataraxia said:
Huh? So you don't think Christianity is a revealed religion, but just a human construct?
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what????????I didn't say anything about a revealed religion or a human construct ???????? Care to try again???????
 
D_NATURED said:
. I already told you it's our job to be better than they were,
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too bad you can't be better than Hitler Stalin and Mao because liberalism always leads to the same place. This is why our Founders sought to free of from liberal govt. Do you understand now?
 
D_NATURED said:
I see you are as devoid of a sense of shame as you are a functioning political compass. You know the saying, "there are none more blind than those who refuse to see"? Well, there are none more dumb than those who refuse to think. Just because you can name a handful of people who were enamored by the shiny exterior of the fascist state doesn't mean ****. I already told you it's our job to be better than they were, not to defend where we've been. Remember, I don't worship the characters of the past. That's the domain of conservatives.
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tesrt
 
James972 said:
actually you said that since there was the Inquisition, religion was mistaken or flawed, as if it was supposed to be perfect!! Isn't thinking fun??
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And you are saying that since there was Stalin and Pol Pot, atheism was mistaken or flawed. So why are you so harsh to judge one and be so soft on the other?

Besides, many atheists think all these ideas are human ideas: sometimes clever, sometimes flawed, imperfect experiments to see what works and what doesn't. Sometimes some things blow up in our faces. Other times they work out pretty well. But it's all human.

But if you are going to claim that you know divine revelation, or your religion gives you some insight into right and wrong which the rest of us don't have, you have to show us that your most current opinions on how we should be doing everything are absolutely divinely perfect. Looking at history, all we see from religious people is people claiming to know what divine revelation is, and coming up with many crazy ideas and ways of doing things no less prone to errors and blowing up in our faces than other human ideas, like the inquisition. That's what makes us start to think that these things you claim you know are divine revelation are nothing more than your own most current best ideas projected to the heavens and the gods. Besides, you yourself claim that Christ left behind very little in terms of anything solid or concrete instructions and guides. So I am not sure where you are getting all this confidence in knowing detailed domestic and foreign policy issues from reading the Bible, unless you are reading your own opinions into some very vague and abstract things in the Bible, like one would read Tarot cards or something.

So you have 2 choices left, it seems to me:

1) claim that your most current recommendations are based on a very confident and sure understanding of divine revelation, and therefore guaranteeing us that if we implement them, THIS TIME, unlike other times, everything is going to be perfect,

OR

2) You don't know what you are talking about, and "Christianity" is nothing but a projection of your own current, very human, very fallible opinions, onto God (eg, the Dakota pipeline is God's will, or an invasion of Iraq is God's will, etc... will as it says in the Bible...).

I don't see a third option. So which is it?
 
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D_NATURED said:
There's no need to thank anyone or worship anyone from the past. None of them changed what our basic humanity provides. Being a liberal means a willingness to change and being conservative means being resolved to our ancestor's faith, their bigotries and their misfortunes.
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Yes. But I believe the euphemism used by conservatives is that we have to cling to "the wisdom of the ages"- you know, things like slavery, misogyny, the divine right of kings to rule, perennial tribal warfare, etc...
 
James972 said:
so you don't care that Jesus and Jefferson, from the past, gave you the life you have??? You do't thank God it was not Hitler Stalin and Mao instead that created the world you live in??? See why we say liberalism is based in ignorance??
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If Hitler had won, this post would be in response to some jackass telling me to thank the fuhrer for my life. No, I don't thank an invisible god that it was YOUR guy, in retrospect, who won and not another. That would be equally dumb as what you just wrote.

You see, we live in THIS version of reality and every decision by every murderous fool in history has brought us here. There's no need to thank anyone or worship anyone from the past. None of them changed what our basic humanity provides. Being a liberal means a willingness to change and being conservative means being resolved to our ancestor's faith, their bigotries and their misfortunes. None of those dictators threatened to change that dynamic. They were conservative in deed if not in name.
 
James972 said:
then why did our liberals love Stalin so much????


You want to know what Fascism is? It is like your New Deal."
-- Mussolini, during a visit to New York City


-W.E.B DuBois: (the most important black leader in the first half of the 20th Century) "Joseph Stalin was a great man; few other men of the 20th Century approach his stature. The formation of the Nazi dictatorship was absolutely necessary to get the state in order." In 1937 he proclaimed: "there is today more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past." (page 10)

-Guy Tugwell: (FDR Brain Trust) said of fascism: "It's the cleanest, neatest piece...of social machinery I've ever seen." ( page 11)

-Walter Lippman: called on FDR to be a "dictator." (page 11)

-H.G. Wells: "progressives must become "liberal fascists and enlightened Nazis" ( page 21)

-Wallace Stevens: "I am pro-Mussolini." ( page 27)

-Isaac F. Marcosson: in the NY Times, "Mussolini is a Latin Teddy
Roosevelt." ( page 27)

-American Legion: "do not forget, Fascists are to Italy what the American Legion is to America." ( page 27)

-Will Rogers: "I'm pretty high on Mussolini 'Dictatorship' is the right form of gov't if you have the right dictator." ( page 27)

-Saturday Evening Post: gave Mussolini biggest advance ever on article he wrote about himself. (page 32)

-Winston Churchill: dubbed Mussolini the world's greatest lawgiver (page 27)

-Freud and Einstein: called Mussolini the hero of Culture (Page 29)

-Puccini and Toscanini: both were pioneering Fascists of Mussolini (page 32)

-Ida Tarbell: called Mussolini the "despot with a dimple." ( page 28)

-Lincoln Steffens: about Russia -"I have seen the future and it works"
(page 28)

-McClures magazine: "Fascism is a 'great step forward' and the first new idea in govt' since the founding of the American Republic" ( page 28)

-John Patrick Duggins: Columbia University is "Fascism's veritable home in America and a school house for budding fascists ideologues." ( page 32)

-Nicholas Butler: (President of Columbia University) received a signed photo from Mussolini thanking him for his, "most valuable contribution to the promotion of understanding between Fascist Italy and the United States" ( page 29)

-James Farrell: (head of US Steel) Mussolini is the "greatest living man"
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I see you are as devoid of a sense of shame as you are a functioning political compass. You know the saying, "there are none more blind than those who refuse to see"? Well, there are none more dumb than those who refuse to think. Just because you can name a handful of people who were enamored by the shiny exterior of the fascist state doesn't mean ****. I already told you it's our job to be better than they were, not to defend where we've been. Remember, I don't worship the characters of the past. That's the domain of conservatives.
 
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