Religious groups better educated than atheists [W: 200]

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

joG said:

When I consider the people that congregated with my parents for discussion, food and drink in my childhood, I suspect you are right. There were 500 years of academic careers sitting in the family room on many evenings. Those physics, psychology, philosophy, engineering and whatever other professionals and university profs were Hindu, Jews, Christian Existentialists, Muslims or Zen monks. And yes there were some Atheist and Agnostics. One and all quite bright from rather the better universities in the States, Asia and Europe.

My conclusion from all this was that there is no telling and that investing time worrying would get me nowhere spending time on something I'd find out in only a few years anyway.

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You've described my own growing-up experience, which I took entirely for granted until I went off to college and it began to dawn on me that my frame of reference was different. I had always thought that being around a wealth of cultures and beliefs and lifestyles was "normal."

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

nota bene said:

You've described my own growing-up experience, which I took entirely for granted until I went off to college and it began to dawn on me that my frame of reference was different. I had always thought that being around a wealth of cultures and beliefs and lifestyles was "normal."

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.....only to find that it scares those brought otherwise and makes them sometimes do odd things.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

SouthernDemocrat said:

Look at the religious groups with high levels of education, its the most liberal ones. Episcopalians, Church of Christ, and Presbyterians. These are denominations that are typically very high income households and very liberal in their theology (not creationists for example). We were members of a local Episcopalian Parish for years. It was a very, very wealthy congregation and had a large number of highly educated people in it. Completely different group than the Southern Baptist Church I went to often as a kid.

In contrast, conservative evangelicals have much lower college graduation rates than atheists and agnostics.

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What does "liberal" have to do with it? Are you trying to say that liberal theology has to do with education?

Whatever, a lot of Episcopalians are liberal, and a lot are not. It's probably about the same mix as the general population, and having been an Episcopalian I think I can say that without fear of contradiction. All of the American and African Anglicans I have met (also more educated than atheists) subscribe to conservative theology and most of them have some kind of advanced degree.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

it's just me said:

This is interesting - we are told that atheists are generally better educated than religious people, when in reality some religious groups are better educated than atheists.

The most and least educated U.S. religious groups | Pew Research Center

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Atheists have a 43% chance of having a degree compared to the 27% for the rest of the USA. From your link.

Are you in one of the various small religious groups above the 43% level?

Do you count Jews as a religious group or more of a tradition group?

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

it's just me said:

What does "liberal" have to do with it? Are you trying to say that liberal theology has to do with education?

Whatever, a lot of Episcopalians are liberal, and a lot are not. It's probably about the same mix as the general population, and having been an Episcopalian I think I can say that without fear of contradiction. All of the American and African Anglicans I have met (also more educated than atheists) subscribe to conservative theology and most of them have some kind of advanced degree.

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I am not talking about political liberalism. I am saying that Episcopalians, Church of Christ, and PCUSA, are theologically liberal denominations. Even the most conservative Anglican groups are not nearly as theologically conservative as Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, and other conservative Evangelical groups. For example, I can't say I have ever known an Episcopalian that was a literal creationist. I have never known an Episcopalian that was big into End Times prophecy. I have never known an Episcopalian that subscribed to "Flood Geology". Yet that would describe the majority of conservative evangelicals.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

SouthernDemocrat said:

I am not talking about political liberalism. I am saying that Episcopalians, Church of Christ, and PCUSA, are theologically liberal denominations. Even the most conservative Anglican groups are not nearly as theologically conservative as Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, and other conservative Evangelical groups. For example, I can't say I have ever known an Episcopalian that was a literal creationist. I have never known an Episcopalian that was big into End Times prophecy. I have never known an Episcopalian that subscribed to "Flood Geology". Yet that would describe the majority of conservative evangelicals.

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When you say "end times theology" do you mean dispensation theology, rapture and all that? Episcopalians don't believe in it because it's really not in their wheelhouse, as old as they are as a faith tradition. Dispensationalism is a fairly recent phenomenon from the 1800's and is mostly the purview of Millerites types and Cyrus Schofield fans. Even hard core Baptists don't subscribe to it, as far as I know.

It sounds like you are broadbrushing Evangelicals, though, a lot of their clergy are very well educated and not into peddling snake oil.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

it's just me said:

This is interesting - we are told that atheists are generally better educated than religious people, when in reality some religious groups are better educated than atheists.

The most and least educated U.S. religious groups | Pew Research Center

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In the grand historical narrative, one might be predisposed to comment on the large shift from the educated being the small number of religiously trained individuals to the expectation that it is the secular mass that holds the key to literacy and educational attainment.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

SouthernDemocrat said:

Look at the religious groups with high levels of education, its the most liberal ones. Episcopalians, Church of Christ, and Presbyterians. These are denominations that are typically very high income households and very liberal in their theology (not creationists for example). We were members of a local Episcopalian Parish for years. It was a very, very wealthy congregation and had a large number of highly educated people in it. Completely different group than the Southern Baptist Church I went to often as a kid.

In contrast, conservative evangelicals have much lower college graduation rates than atheists and agnostics.

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I think that's what is really contributing the most to these results.If you controlled for income and/or geography the differences would probably disappear. Religions that are prevalent among the lower class people of the Deep South wind up at the bottom of the list while ones that have their strongholds among the NY elite and other pockets of affluence have high graduation rates.

This chart is probably just showing us something we already knew. You are more likely to get a college degree if you grow up in a wealthy NY family than if you grow up in a poor rural Alabama home.

I don't think this OP is useless only because it's combating an argument that is equally invalid (about atheists being better educated) and most often used fallaciously. At least it shows that their argument is not just fallacious but also factually incorrect. People who use such arguments can be pointed to this chart and told maybe they should consider Hinduism instead. This kind of fallacious appeal to authority often hinges on such people feeling as if they are intellectually superior; pointing out that Hindus, Jews, and several Christian groups are better educated than their own kind of destroys that.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

it's just me said:

This is interesting - we are told that atheists are generally better educated than religious people, when in reality some religious groups are better educated than atheists.

The most and least educated U.S. religious groups | Pew Research Center

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What I like is that when you search for 'atheist', it only appears once in the text of the whole page.
This is a classic filtering-through-the-bubble-you-are-trapped-in bull****.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

RogueWarrior said:

What I like is that when you search for 'atheist', it only appears once in the text of the whole page.
This is a classic filtering-through-the-bubble-you-are-trapped-in bull****.

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I will also point out that what is not being shown is what people's personal beliefs actually are. Because of the prejudice against atheists, many who have become atheists still keep their old religious affiliation in surveys, and quite often even to their own families. I wonder how many of the Christians out there that go to church twice a year, put up the holiday decorations etc etc etc are actually believers? I have seen a number of people on these forums that claim that they are atheists or agnostics leaning to atheism, yet still keep the trappings of religion to the public and even their own family.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

it's just me said:

This is interesting - we are told that atheists are generally better educated than religious people, when in reality some religious groups are better educated than atheists.

The most and least educated U.S. religious groups | Pew Research Center

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You do realize that you link proves the part I underlined to be correct right?. Your statement doesn't even really make sense because it does not disprove the beginning part. The reality is, based off your own link, atheists are generally better educated than religious people. Not sure what you were trying to accomplish or why it matters but if it was to disprove atheists are generally more educated than religious people you completely failed. If it really interests you maybe there is still hope to save your currently failed point. Add up the college degree percentages for all the religious groups (not including atheist and agnostic of course) and divide it by the number of religious groups, if it's higher than 43 THEN you can claim the statement atheist are generally more educated to be false, if its not, then that statement still remains true.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

it's just me said:

Your opinion is not supported by the facts, THAT was the point of this thread.

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Actually they are, you already proved that. His statement is completely true and factual based off of YOUR link.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

Kobie said:

As far as fails go, this thread is one of the better ones.

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I'm religious and educated and I have to completely agree. The OP is a complete failure and the link proves that atheists are generally better educated than religious people. I'm not even sure how one could possible look at that info and come to any other conclusion.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

LaylaWindu said:

I'm religious and educated and I have to completely agree. The OP is a complete failure and the link proves that atheists are generally better educated than religious people. I'm not even sure how one could possible look at that info and come to any other conclusion.

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I would actually phrase that differently. I would phrase it as 'Better educated people are more likely to be atheists'. Being an atheist is not likely to get someone better educated.. but being better educated is likely to cause people to reject certain religious dogma. In a number of people, this might cause them to reject an axiom that is inherently can not proved.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

RAMOSS said:

I would actually phrase that differently. I would phrase it as 'Better educated people are more likely to be atheists'. Being an atheist is not likely to get someone better educated.. but being better educated is likely to cause people to reject certain religious dogma. In a number of people, this might cause them to reject an axiom that is inherently can not proved.

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I'm just going by the link. Possible causation or factors that lead to these stats I don't know about.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

CrabCake said:

I think that's what is really contributing the most to these results.If you controlled for income and/or geography the differences would probably disappear. Religions that are prevalent among the lower class people of the Deep South wind up at the bottom of the list while ones that have their strongholds among the NY elite and other pockets of affluence have high graduation rates.

This chart is probably just showing us something we already knew. You are more likely to get a college degree if you grow up in a wealthy NY family than if you grow up in a poor rural Alabama home.

I don't think this OP is useless only because it's combating an argument that is equally invalid (about atheists being better educated) and most often used fallaciously. At least it shows that their argument is not just fallacious but also factually incorrect. People who use such arguments can be pointed to this chart and told maybe they should consider Hinduism instead. This kind of fallacious appeal to authority often hinges on such people feeling as if they are intellectually superior; pointing out that Hindus, Jews, and several Christian groups are better educated than their own kind of destroys that.

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That was the whole point of the thread, and it still didn't stick.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

it's just me said:

That was the whole point of the thread, and it still didn't stick.

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And it's never going to stick because the OP completely failed. You falsely claimed a true statement to be false and posted lies in this thread as people pointed out (religious and non). If people make a false "causation" about atheists generally being more educated than religious people than by all means attack that or challenge them to support their claim. I would do the same because I would love to see what they come up with because I bet it would be wrong. But when you just make false statements and lies you lose all footing and your counter argument looks even more stupid than any speculation they were making. You can't challenge a possible fallacious claim using a lie and calling facts not true, that just leaves your posts looking completely absurd.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

RabidAlpaca said:

You've really misinterpreted what was said here.

From your own link:

American christians are rock bottom on education compared to every other group. A well educated christian population is much more of a European thing. Also, unaffiliated means unaffiliated, not "atheist". Don't invent labels to skew things towards a point you want to make.

Christians in U.S. Are Less Educated Than Religious Minorities, Report Says

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Interesting link and informative, if the details are looked at.

What should possibly be noted here is that grouping by religion is not necessarily as informative as by ethnicity or cultural and country origin. Persians in the USA are rather high achievers in average for instance and it is not necessarily sensible to group Calvinist Bostonians and Alabama Blacks Methodists.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

LaylaWindu said:

And it's never going to stick because the OP completely failed. You falsely claimed a true statement to be false and posted lies in this thread as people pointed out (religious and non). If people make a false "causation" about atheists generally being more educated than religious people than by all means attack that or challenge them to support their claim. I would do the same because I would love to see what they come up with because I bet it would be wrong. But when you just make false statements and lies you lose all footing and your counter argument looks even more stupid than any speculation they were making. You can't challenge a possible fallacious claim using a lie and calling facts not true, that just leaves your posts looking completely absurd.

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As I thought, your opinion is more informed by your politics than the facts, along with all of the others of your ilk. The fact is, there ARE religious people (Hindus, Jews, UUs, Episcopalians, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Buddhists, Church of Christ) who are better educated than atheists, and it puts to the lie the claim that atheists are better educated than EVERYBODY of faith, which is what they usually claim, as Crab Cake said. This is shown in the graph I posted, period. But, as usual, you argue because you like arguing, not because you have a real reason. This is from my OP, and it is factually correct:

...we are told that atheists are generally better educated than religious people, when in reality some religious groups are better educated than atheists...

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You either didn't read that or you started reacting as soon as the atheists started jumping up and down. Get off my case. You're the one who failed, because you didn't read.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

There are scientists who believe in god.
Tho scientists are 10-20x Less likely to.
Generally, the higher up you go into the eilte sciences of, ie, the NAS, the Less likely theism is.

Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'
People with higher IQs are less likely to believe in God, according to a new study.
By Graeme Paton, Education Editor, 11 Jun 2008
Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God' - Telegraph

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

it's just me said:

As I thought, your opinion is more informed by your politics than the facts, along with all of the others of your ilk. The fact is, there ARE religious people (Hindus, Jews, UUs, Episcopalians, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Buddhists, Church of Christ) who are better educated than atheists, and it puts to the lie the claim that atheists are better educated than EVERYBODY of faith, which is what they usually claim, as Crab Cake said. This is shown in the graph I posted, period. But, as usual, you argue because you like arguing, not because you have a real reason. This is from my OP, and it is factually correct:



You either didn't read that or you started reacting as soon as the atheists started jumping up and down. Get off my case. You're the one who failed, because you didn't read.

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Nobody made your failed strawman claim but you. Your evidence is lacking, and your OP does little but disastrously reinforce the alleged superiority of atheism.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

it's just me said:

As I thought, your opinion is more informed by your politics than the facts, along with all of the others of your ilk.

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Since I'm a christian and lean right, wrong again.

it's just me said:

The fact is, there ARE religious people (Hindus, Jews, UUs, Episcopalians, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Buddhists, Church of Christ) who are better educated than atheists

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100% correct can you point out where I said that wasn't true? Can you point out where anybody in this thread said that wasn't true? I'll give you a hint, you can't. It seems since your op and comments in this thread have been proven inaccurate you are now moving on to a strawman but that also isn't' working. Your posts are just a glutton for punishment, they already lost and you are just making them look even more stupid. It's funny but it isn't helping the validity of your posts which is currently zero.

it's just me said:

and it puts to the lie the claim that atheists are better educated than EVERYBODY of faith, which is what they usually claim, as Crab Cake said.

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The usual claim and lie? again where and by who? I've never seen anybody post it the way you are now changing it and claiming. Nobody certainly posted that here in this thread. Regardless it doesn't change the invalidity of your op and the lies you have posted.

it's just me said:

This is shown in the graph I posted, period. But, as usual, you argue because you like arguing, not because you have a real reason. This is from my OP, and it is factually correct:

it's just me said:

...we are told that atheists are generally better educated than religious people, when in reality some religious groups are better educated than atheists...

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You either didn't read that or you started reacting as soon as the atheists started jumping up and down. Get off my case. You're the one who failed, because you didn't read.

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Nope I read it fine, thank you for quoting it again fro more evidence it failed. The end part has nothign to do with the first part. The do not go together and are not the same. If you don't want posters on your case, like the many here are, do not post lies. The first part says "religious people" as in one group, and then you show how some individual groups are more educate. That is factually not the same but there's no reason to play your dishonest game. I'll just call out your lies with a simple questions:

atheists are generally better educated than religious people, is this statement true, yes or no? any answer besides yes will show the dishonesty of your OP and statements here and further expose your failed imbecilic statements. I can't WAIT for you to answer, which you probably won't and that too is just as good and exposes the dishonesty in your claims. Nobody here said that if you are an athiest that makes you more educated than any religious person or any religious group which you are TRYING to claim. That lie just isn't holding water buddy.

Next a poster made this statement:

spud_meister said:

As a whole, non-religious are better educated than the religious.

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to which you replied too and posted this lie:

it's just me said:

Your opinion is not supported by the facts, THAT was the point of this thread.

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His statement which is 100% true is supported by facts, in fact your own link proves his statement to be true but you chose to post a lie anyway. Why? So lets test your posts again. Is your statement above true? yes or no, any answer besides no, will AGAIN tells us all we need to know.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

LaylaWindu said:

Since I'm a christian and lean right, wrong again.

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And I'm the Pope, nice to meet you.

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

it's just me said:

And I'm the Pope, nice to meet you.

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That's what I thought. hahaha You aren't interested in posting with any honesty, accuracy, intelligence or integrity, duly noted. Your lies have been exposed for all to see, hopefully you can avoid that mistake in the future and so many posters won't "get on your case". It was awesome to meet you as well, thanks for the laughs and merry christmas!

Re: Religious groups better educated than atheists

LaylaWindu said:

That's what I thought. hahaha You aren't interested in posting with any honesty, accuracy, intelligence or integrity, duly noted. Your lies have been exposed for all to see, hopefully you can avoid that mistake in the future and so many posters won't "get on your case". It was awesome to meet you as well, thanks for the laughs and merry christmas!

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If it wasn't for projection you'd have nothing to say. You, miss, are no Christian and I wish you would stop lying about that for your own good. People who disagree with you aren't "lying", they are disagreeing, the "lie" meme comes from your imagination because you aren't clever enough to know a disagreement when you see it. It is supremely dishonest to accuse political opponents of "lying", this is from the people of the lie, who accuse everyone who disagrees of being a "racist, sexist, bigot", etc.

Grow up, the laughs are on you.