Christopher Hitchens: Mother Teresa of Calcutta

Celebrity · Oct 12, 2016

Gathomas88 said:
As anyone who's even remotely familiar with countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, or etca can tell you, to a certain extent, the above's simply what's required to run an establishment in the Third World. Nothing gets done without the local despot or warlord's go-ahead. If you try to ignore them, you wind up dead, or worse.

Perhaps saints were celebrities in the olden days, but modern day Catholic celebrities need not all be canonized. When I think of what a saint is, I think of someone who is perfect in their faith. Perhaps they are not perfect in other ways. A devoted wife might also be described as a 'saint' if she is very generous and kind.

I find it hard to believe that someone in a position of power who stands by and watches someone suffer without giving them the care they desperately need is a saint. So, maybe Mother Teresa is perfect in her faith, but what about her underfunded clinics? Do you think it's true that she preferred California clinics for herself? Remember, she was Albanian. What about the allegations by German magazine Stern that only seven percent of donations went to her clinics? Maybe that was up to the Church, not her.

A report in German magazine Stern, revealed that in 1991 only seven percent of the donation received at Missionaries of Charity was used for charity. Former volunteers and people close to the Mother House revealed that the Vatican, home to the Pope, has control over the “monetary matters” ever since Missionaries of Charity came under its fold in 1965. The control got stronger after Mother Teresa died in 1997. When asked about how much money the Charity gets annually, the then superior general Sister Nirmala in a rare media interview a few years ago remarked “Countless.” When asked how much it was, she answered, “God knows. He is our banker.” Forbes India’s request for details was turned down at the Mother House. Sister Mary Prema, the present superior general, did not agree to a meeting.

It was estimated that MT raised over $100 million for her charity, yet only 5-7% of this was used in catering to the poor. MT’s charity has always declined any request or appeal for financial audit.

Realitywins · Oct 12, 2016

Gathomas88 said:
Sooo... To be clear, you're arguing that the presence of affordable food and healthcare - where none had previously been available - in the most desperately impoverished parts of Calcutta, somehow made life worse for the people living there, simply because the providers of said care happened to be ebbbbiiiillll Papists?

Do feel free to explain. :roll:

Read the various links. All will be revealed.

Gathomas88 · Oct 12, 2016

Celebrity said:
The type of scrutiny which would matter in case the level of care she provided was brought into question is that of a medical professional, such as a doctor. You seem to think trying is automatically better than nothing, which is only the case if one never fails. I'm a little bit surprised that she was canonized, but then again, I wasn't in Calcutta. Politically, it's in the church's best interest to canonize her, rather than add it to another one of mankind's deplorable acts of mass murder in the name of Christ. I suppose that any inadequate care which resulted in fatalities couldn't be called murder, since she wasn't killing, but baptizing them.

It helps to think critically about canonization, including the scrutiny of the devil's advocate.

Celebrity said:
Perhaps saints were celebrities in the olden days, but modern day Catholic celebrities need not all be canonized. When I think of what a saint is, I think of someone who is perfect in their faith. Perhaps they are not perfect in other ways. A devoted wife might also be described as a 'saint' if she is very generous and kind.

I find it hard to believe that someone in a position of power who stands by and watches someone suffer without giving them the care they desperately need is a saint. So, maybe Mother Teresa is perfect in her faith, but what about her underfunded clinics? Do you think it's true that she preferred California clinics for herself? Remember, she was Albanian. What about the allegations by German magazine Stern that only seven percent of donations went to her clinics? Maybe that was up to the Church, not her.

First off, the idea that doing nothing at all is preferable to running underfunded clinics is patently absurd. Any measure taken to alleviate suffering is preferable to lack of action.

Secondly, there is absolutely no proof that Mother Teresa deliberately ran her clinics at a subpar level. There are a handful of unfounded allegations, from dubious sources, with dubious agendas. That is all.

To all evidence, Mother Teresa did the best that she could with what she had available. It's certainly not like she was living in the lap of luxury off of the donations given to her organization.

I mean... Have you seen the woman? She very clearly lived an austere lifestyle.

Realitywins · Oct 12, 2016

Gathomas88 said:
First off, the idea that doing nothing at all is preferable to running underfunded clinics is patently absurd. Any measure taken to alleviate suffering is preferable to lack of action.

Secondly, there is absolutely no proof that Mother Teresa deliberately ran her clinics at a subpar level. There are a handful of unfounded allegations, from dubious sources, with dubious agendas. That is all.

To all evidence, Mother Teresa did the best that she could with what she had available. It's certainly not like she was living in the lap of luxury off of the donations given to her organization.

I mean... Have you seen the woman? She very clearly lived an austere lifestyle.

Obviously you have not read the links all of which are legitimate and properly sourced. Which suggests you are not the least bit interested in anything which tarnishes the bitch's reputation. IOW, you prefer to ignore truth in favour of ignorance.

Celebrity · Oct 12, 2016

Gathomas88 said:
First off, the idea that doing nothing at all is preferable to running underfunded clinics is patently absurd. Any measure taken to alleviate suffering is preferable to lack of action.

Secondly, there is absolutely no proof that Mother Teresa deliberately ran her clinics at a subpar level. There are a handful of unfounded allegations, from dubious sources, with dubious agendas. That is all.

To all evidence, Mother Teresa did the best that she could with what she had available. It's certainly not like she was living in the lap of luxury off of the donations given to her organization.

I mean... Have you seen the woman? She very clearly lived an austere lifestyle.

Ok, maybe she lived an austere lifestyle. But, did she handle the finances? Refer to my post #126. A sister was quoted as saying "God" handles the finances. Who is the accountant, God too? I think being a saint requires more than diplomacy and an austere lifestyle, but I could be wrong.

But the idea that running a poorly funded, or poorly staffed clinic with poorly administered medical care is better than nothing is dubious. Do you think that needles were sterilized in those clinics? I'm not sure. I do know that a hospital is a great place to contract disease, when one is in close proximity to many dying people. It may have been the case that third world leaders donated to her cause because they saw it as a quarantine.

Gathomas88 · Oct 12, 2016

Realitywins said:
Obviously you have not read the links all of which are legitimate and properly sourced. Which suggests you are not the least bit interested in anything which tarnishes the bitch's reputation. IOW, you prefer to ignore truth in favour of ignorance.

:roll:

You've got a couple of alleged (not even particularly high status) former staffers, who spoke to some magazine in the early 1990s. Again, I'm sorry, but that proves basically nothing. They could be lying through their teeth to serve some ulterior motive.

Where do you think all of the money was going, exactly, if not to the clinics? Mother Teresa wasn't exactly living in luxury, in case you haven't noticed.

Celebrity · Oct 12, 2016

Gathomas88 said:
:roll:

You've got a couple of alleged (not even particularly high status) former staffers, who spoke to some magazine in the early 1990s. Again, I'm sorry, but that proves basically nothing. They could be lying through their teeth to serve some ulterior motive.

Where do you think all of the money was going, exactly, if not to the clinics? Mother Teresa wasn't exactly living in luxury, in case you haven't noticed.

The money was probably going to her foundation. I doubt it was a money laundering operation, but who knows. Any legitimate business or charitable organization can be a front for shady dealings.

Realitywins · Oct 12, 2016

Gathomas88 said:
:roll:

You've got a couple of alleged (not even particularly high status) former staffers, who spoke to some magazine in the early 1990s. Again, I'm sorry, but that proves basically nothing. They could be lying through their teeth to serve some ulterior motive.

Where do you think all of the money was going, exactly, if not to the clinics? Mother Teresa wasn't exactly living in luxury, in case you haven't noticed.

Right. Denial all the way.

nota bene · Oct 12, 2016

Realitywins said:
Right. Denial all the way.

Did Mother Teresa leave a personal estate? Perhaps you can edify us all.

Realitywins · Oct 12, 2016

Gathomas88 said:
:roll:

You've got a couple of alleged (not even particularly high status) former staffers, who spoke to some magazine in the early 1990s. Again, I'm sorry, but that proves basically nothing. They could be lying through their teeth to serve some ulterior motive.

Where do you think all of the money was going, exactly, if not to the clinics? Mother Teresa wasn't exactly living in luxury, in case you haven't noticed.

Low Level? 1990's? Better open your eyes and clearly you didn't read the links; The Arctic Beacon, Mother Teresa: Where Are Her Millions? | Science and Rationalists' Association of India. Somehow, I doubt you will be capable of seeing the brutal, cruel woman she was. A woman who thougt "suffering is beautiful"...the suffering of others. She got off on it.