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Islam and rape

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stevecanuck

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In the now closed thread "To maintain supply of sex slaves, ISIS pushes birth control", Dittohead Not asked, "I wonder which part of their Koran they cite to justify sex slaves". He will probably be surprised to hear that there is an actual answer to that question, but before I give it, I want to clarify that I'm not playing a game of My Religion Is Better Than Islam, because I have no religion. I wouldn't bother commenting on any beliefs if they didn't impact the world, which is why I neither know nor care what, for example, Shintoism teaches. Now, to the subject at hand:

Islam does indeed sanction the rape of captives and/or slaves. If you want to say, "Yabut Christians rape too", you would of course be right. The Crusades alone bear this out, but that is not the point. Christians who rape, and even claim to do so in the name of their religion, can point to no scriptural or historical example for justification. To the best of my knowledge, no words or deeds ascribed to the mythical character know as Jesus even come close to approval of rape. Muslims, in stark contrast, not only have passages from the Qur'an and hadiths to sanctify and condone their crime, but the real life example of Mohamed and the first Muslims.

Let's start with the Qur'an. The following verse concludes a list that describes with whom Muslims may not have sex: 4:24 - And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess.

The following 2 verses are from a list of conditions by which a Muslim must abide for God to look favorably upon him on Judgement Day: 70:29-30 - ...And those who guard their private parts Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they are not to be blamed.

This means you can rape your captives. Period. Amanda Lindhout, who was held by Islamists in Somalia for 15 months, was shown these verses when she complained about being repeatedly raped by one of her guards despite the fact that she had "converted" to Islam.

Even more damning is that Mohamed condoned (and probably participated in) the practice. These hadiths (and there are more that say the same thing) show conclusively that females who fell into the hands of the pracitioners of the Religion of Peace could be raped:

Jabir added: We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle while the Quran was being Revealed.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interruptus. The Prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection." Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it."


The hadith makes it worse. At least Mohamed's men were trying to prevent their rape victims from becoming pregnant, but Mohamed gave them the green light to complete the rape by telling them God has already decided if they will get pregnant.

When ISIS fighters who line up to buy sex slaves say, "It is ordained", this is what they are talking about.
 
see above.
Yes, rape of infidel women by jihadists, who fight for the cause of allah, is halal.

In the moments before he raped the 12-year-old girl, the Islamic State fighter took the time to explain that what he was about to do was not a sin. Because the preteen girl practiced a religion other than Islam, the Quran not only gave him the right to rape her—it condoned and encouraged it.

He bound her hands and gagged her. Then he knelt beside the bed and prostrated himself in prayer before getting on top of her. When it was over, he knelt to pray again, bookending the rape with acts of religious devotion…. ‘ I kept telling him it hurts – please stop. Drawing closer to God.”

Other girls testified to the same treatment, mixing sex and acts of devotion: “Every time that he came to rape me, he would pray. He kept telling me this is ibadah,” a term from Islamic scripture meaning “worship.” He said that raping me is his prayer to God. It’s allowed. It’s halal.


But this is not a “medieval injunction.” It derives from various Hadith, including this Hadith of Abu Dawud in the 9th century:

Abu Said al-Khudri said: “The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, “And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess”. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period.” [The Quran verse is 4:24]. (Sunan Abu Dawud vol. 2, no. 2150). <snip>

The note on this Hadith says that “After the distribution of the spoils of war a man may have intercourse with the female slave after passing one menstrual period.


Hugh Fitzgerald: “Raping me is his prayer to God. It’s allowed. It’s halal.�
 
I can only hope that people of all religions can see a bit of their own nonsense reflected in this story. Muslims are not the only ones who believe their religion justifies human rights violations, many do.

I like the phrase, "your religion is what you do". It is probably a small percentage of the faithful who would do something so horrible but, the truth is, the bad ones can hide in their midst and are not outcast, as they should be. I think that's because the religious often enjoy the undeserved moral credentials that a socially preferred faith offers to themselves and are reluctant to point out the exceptions to the "rule" if it threatens discrediting their own moral superiority. Whether a Muslim rapes or whether a Christian rapes is secondary to the fact that too many of both group are profoundly fond of abandoning their personal morality to a group-think ethic, even when the results are demonstrably harmful to people, especially women. With god, all things are possible.
 
I can only hope that people of all religions can see a bit of their own nonsense reflected in this story. Muslims are not the only ones who believe their religion justifies human rights violations, many do.

Believing is one thing. Being able to point to scripture for justification is another.

I like the phrase, "your religion is what you do"..

Not really. Your religion is what it teaches. YOU are what you do with those teachings.
 
Believing is one thing. Being able to point to scripture for justification is another.

Just because the religious don't give a crap about recent history doesn't mean that I don't. I see you've conveniently forgotten about the first four hundred years that Europeans inhabited this land and the long-standing practices of slavery and genocide that were defended on scriptural grounds. Talk to John C. Calhoun about scripture. If you don't think that Christians, too, can and have also justified human rights violations with actual scripture, you're kidding yourself. It's still being done today.

Not really. Your religion is what it teaches. YOU are what you do with those teachings.

Uhhh...too many people take those "teachings" seriously, that's the problem. I can pretty much assure you that anything you do for which there is no secular justification is going to work out poorly for humans.
 
Pack rape is common for these things.
 
They view woman as inferior.Islam law states woman must obey man,stay in the home,dont even mix with neighbours and be available for sex at any moment.
 
Believing is one thing. Being able to point to scripture for justification is another.



Not really. Your religion is what it teaches. YOU are what you do with those teachings.

Does the Old Testament count?
 
They view woman as inferior.Islam law states woman must obey man,stay in the home,dont even mix with neighbours and be available for sex at any moment.

These are the reasons TRUMP is right.
 
In the now closed thread "To maintain supply of sex slaves, ISIS pushes birth control", Dittohead Not asked, "I wonder which part of their Koran they cite to justify sex slaves". He will probably be surprised to hear that there is an actual answer to that question, but before I give it, I want to clarify that I'm not playing a game of My Religion Is Better Than Islam, because I have no religion. I wouldn't bother commenting on any beliefs if they didn't impact the world, which is why I neither know nor care what, for example, Shintoism teaches. Now, to the subject at hand:

Islam does indeed sanction the rape of captives and/or slaves. If you want to say, "Yabut Christians rape too", you would of course be right. The Crusades alone bear this out, but that is not the point. Christians who rape, and even claim to do so in the name of their religion, can point to no scriptural or historical example for justification. To the best of my knowledge, no words or deeds ascribed to the mythical character know as Jesus even come close to approval of rape. Muslims, in stark contrast, not only have passages from the Qur'an and hadiths to sanctify and condone their crime, but the real life example of Mohamed and the first Muslims.

Let's start with the Qur'an. The following verse concludes a list that describes with whom Muslims may not have sex: 4:24 - And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess.

The following 2 verses are from a list of conditions by which a Muslim must abide for God to look favorably upon him on Judgement Day: 70:29-30 - ...And those who guard their private parts Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they are not to be blamed.

This means you can rape your captives. Period. Amanda Lindhout, who was held by Islamists in Somalia for 15 months, was shown these verses when she complained about being repeatedly raped by one of her guards despite the fact that she had "converted" to Islam.

Even more damning is that Mohamed condoned (and probably participated in) the practice. These hadiths (and there are more that say the same thing) show conclusively that females who fell into the hands of the pracitioners of the Religion of Peace could be raped:

Jabir added: We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle while the Quran was being Revealed.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interruptus. The Prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection." Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it."


The hadith makes it worse. At least Mohamed's men were trying to prevent their rape victims from becoming pregnant, but Mohamed gave them the green light to complete the rape by telling them God has already decided if they will get pregnant.

When ISIS fighters who line up to buy sex slaves say, "It is ordained", this is what they are talking about.

There's places where the Bible and the Koran seem to overlap. Is there anything in the Koran about the last righteous man in town offering his virgin daughters to be gang-raped by a mob?
 
An infidel,is a non believer of islam(there stupid law) Infidels can expect rape and much, much worse things.
 
We should have a choice of the religion we follow.With islam, if you don't follow it, they will rape everybody including babies.Why allow this into any country.
 
Why is rape and torture part of there religion. BECAUSE THERE PERVERTS.
 
The few that have been let into Europe(when I say a few I mean 5 million) Have changed Europe for the worst.MUCH,MUCH,MUCH worse.Woman cant even go out of there houses because of these blood thirsty,sex thirsty things. I don't call them animals because I like animals. There just things that should be exterminated.
 
Why is rape and torture part of there religion. BECAUSE THERE PERVERTS.

Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? Thirty years ago, illiterate bigots didn't have anywhere to voice their opinions outside of church.
 
Does the Old Testament count?

Not as much as the NT, but yes I'm familiar with the utter crap that is Deuteronomy. Had Jesus carried on such traditions by promoting and participating in them, you would be right in your attempt to equate Christianity to Islam. But he didn't. He (and for the sake of talking about what he taught, I'm going to pretend he actually lived) taught peace, love, and forgiveness. The bible started off horribly with the NT (wherein exists all the justification for the ***t-show that Christianity became, but is no longer), then changed tone about 180 degrees to become the religion of peace that it mostly is today.

But, comparison aside, why not simply judge Islam on it's own merits, or lack thereof? Seriously, why not? If you look at what is in the Qur'an and the actions of Mohamed and the first Muslims, you will understand why groups such as ISIS have such traction in the devout Sunni world. Mohamed made war, not peace. That's a simple fact that anyone with an open mind who can spell google can find out for himself.
 
Isn't the internet a wonderful thing? Thirty years ago, illiterate bigots didn't have anywhere to voice their opinions outside of church.

What is bigoted about the truth? Rape is an Islamic tool of war. Thirty years ago people were not afraid to speak up.
 
in the now closed thread "to maintain supply of sex slaves, isis pushes birth control", dittohead not asked, "i wonder which part of their koran they cite to justify sex slaves". He will probably be surprised to hear that there is an actual answer to that question, but before i give it, i want to clarify that i'm not playing a game of my religion is better than islam, because i have no religion. I wouldn't bother commenting on any beliefs if they didn't impact the world, which is why i neither know nor care what, for example, shintoism teaches. Now, to the subject at hand:

Islam does indeed sanction the rape of captives and/or slaves. If you want to say, "yabut christians rape too", you would of course be right. The crusades alone bear this out, but that is not the point. Christians who rape, and even claim to do so in the name of their religion, can point to no scriptural or historical example for justification. To the best of my knowledge, no words or deeds ascribed to the mythical character know as jesus even come close to approval of rape. Muslims, in stark contrast, not only have passages from the qur'an and hadiths to sanctify and condone their crime, but the real life example of mohamed and the first muslims.

Let's start with the qur'an. The following verse concludes a list that describes with whom muslims may not have sex: 4:24 - and [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess.

the following 2 verses are from a list of conditions by which a muslim must abide for god to look favorably upon him on judgement day: 70:29-30 - ...and those who guard their private parts except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they are not to be blamed.

this means you can rape your captives. Period. Amanda lindhout, who was held by islamists in somalia for 15 months, was shown these verses when she complained about being repeatedly raped by one of her guards despite the fact that she had "converted" to islam.

Even more damning is that mohamed condoned (and probably participated in) the practice. These hadiths (and there are more that say the same thing) show conclusively that females who fell into the hands of the pracitioners of the religion of peace could be raped:

jabir added: We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of allah's apostle while the quran was being revealed.

Narrated abu said al-khudri: That during the battle with bani al-mustaliq they (muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the prophet about coitus interruptus. The prophet said, "it is better that you should not do it, for allah has written whom he is going to create till the day of resurrection." qaza'a said, "i heard abu sa'id saying that the prophet said, 'no soul is ordained to be created but allah will create it."


the hadith makes it worse. At least mohamed's men were trying to prevent their rape victims from becoming pregnant, but mohamed gave them the green light to complete the rape by telling them god has already decided if they will get pregnant.

When isis fighters who line up to buy sex slaves say, "it is ordained", this is what they are talking about.
another islam expert . l am sure you read the whole qoran
 
They view woman as inferior.Islam law states woman must obey man,stay in the home,dont even mix with neighbours and be available for sex at any moment.

interesting I must read THE QORAN again
 
another islam expert . l am sure you read the whole qoran

You do not have to. There is plenty of information out there. And a ****load of dead bodies that prove what Islam is.

There is no mystery involved.:doh
 
another islam expert . l am sure you read the whole qoran

Two things:

1. Yes, I've read the whole qur'an, some of it in Arabic (although I usually need the English translation to help me along).
2. You didn't attempt to rebut my post, so I assume you concur that Islam allows for the rape of captives and slaves.
 
interesting I must read THE QORAN again

Start with 4:34. You'll see women are told to obey men. To the best of my knowledge women are only forbidden from going outside and mixing with their neighbors if their husband/father/brother demands it.

Now go to 2.223 and you'll see that women are compared to a fertile field that may be seeded whenever the husband wants.

He was 2 out of 4, with the other two being at the whim of the woman's master.
 
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