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Dear Atheists

MaggieD said:
What's your point????? OP decided not to discuss her faith. Her choice. End of story.

Why is it that aetheists cannot help themselves? Many on public forums are always trying to "trap" believers. Why does it make any difference at ALL to an aetheist whether or not someone believes there is a god?

To the faithful, no proof is necessary. To a nonbeliever, no proof is enough.
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I haven't seen any reason at all to believe, much less "proof". Don't you see how obnoxious it is to make one post in a thread specifically to say that you aren't going to discuss your beliefs.
 
mbig said:
NO you aren't.
You can and may be challenged.
That's what the OP is whining about.
She wants a pass, and be able to declare "I claim this board in the name of god" without a challenge.
The New Conquistadors.


Yes When I read the "borders" part I changed it to "almost".
But I 100% agree with calling [mere] Faith .. what it is..[mere] faith.
Amuse away.
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Some people will just argue about anything, won't they? Anyone can post anything on this forum and walk away. Is that what gets goats in this thread? That she was strong enough just to walk? Anyone who's been on public forums knows that arguing religion is a no-win. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
 
MaggieD said:
Some people will just argue about anything, won't they? Anyone can post anything on this forum and walk away. Is that what gets goats in this thread? That she was strong enough just to walk? Anyone who's been on public forums ......
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If you're "strong enough" you STAY and [can] defend what you say.
Indeed, anyone who can make an absurd/insane/inane statement and 'walk'.
 
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Anarcho-fascist said:
I haven't seen any reason at all to believe, much less "proof". Don't you see how obnoxious it is to make one post in a thread specifically to say that you aren't going to discuss your beliefs.
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Obnoxious? If it doesn't violate the site's rules to call out a poster, what's obnoxious about it? (I'm new, so don't know if it violates or not.) And, hey!! Look at all the fun we're havin' here talkin' about it.
 
BDBoop said:
I'm not griping so much as perplexed. Is it true that I cannot say I am a woman of faith? Does it perforce mean that you get to sharpen your debate claws on my beliefs? Scourge99, specifically.

The title of the thread was why do people believe in God. I answered the title. There was nothing in the title to indicate that I needed to explain or defend anything. So I simply answered by saying "I'm very protective of my faith, it's not actually up for discussion. All I am willing to say in this thread is it's a gift - and I don't believe the basis of faith can be explained."

Maybe I'm one of those few-and-far-between Christians who does not preach, or judge. I'm more like a 60's hippie. "Hey man; whatever man. If it makes you happy." I mean, I'm a liberal ffs. I swear like a sailor. Willful ignorance is my biggest pet peeve. I can't stand bullies. I am a Very Bad Christian (as the label in America goes these days). And (shock-n-awe, y'all) - I treat people and their beliefs with dignity and respect and actually expect the same in return. It's karmic, doncha know. Yah.

So, dear atheists. When I say my faith is not up for discussion, please note that I'm not attacking your personal non-belief system, and return the favor.

Kthxbai. :peace

Oh, p.s.: If you strongly feel you must call me on this, kindly start your own thread. I actually believe you can comport yourself as an adult with some level of compassion and understanding.
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This will be fine and good so long as you NEVER debate against the atheist position either. You know, this all being "karmic" and all.
 
MaggieD said:
Obnoxious? If it doesn't violate the site's rules to call out a poster, what's obnoxious about it? (I'm new, so don't know if it violates or not.)
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I nice demo of what you're willing to do/Not do in re Facts... before you make a post.
 
mbig said:
If you're "strong enough" you STAY and [can] defend what you say.
Indeed, anyone who can make an absurd/insane/inane statement and 'walk'.
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I think I understand now. Some people see forums as a sport. There's a winner. There's a loser. Others use forums for different reasons. I can see no reason why a believer should choose to fall on his/her sword for your amusement or anyone else's.
 
MaggieD said:
And, again, I ask, "Why do aetheists care?" Are they just looking for what they perceive as a "cheap win?" Are they trying to find a logical reason to believe?
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It really depends. Some are anti-theists, they want to take religion down. Others are defending themselves from theist attacks. If atheism was a visible trait, you could bet your bottom dollar who'd be the most discriminated class out there. Even in this more progressive era, atheism carries with it negative connotation. And depending on where you are at, it can lead to societal exclusion for you and your children.

I mean, in the end there are quite a few theists who want to play the victim card. Oh why are the atheists coming after me type of stuff. But they never pause to consider the opposite position, how have you theists treated atheists? It's not the pretty picture you may envision.
 
MaggieD said:
Saw that exchange. Completely understood your position. You were entitled to post your thoughts and entitled to set your boundaries. There's no use trying to justify one's faith to the faithless. It's a waste of bandwith and air. That's why they call it faith.

Scourge99 was looking for a debate/argument. You chose not to give him one. I say, "You go, girl."
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Ok, but things were posted on a debate forum. People write things all the time, and you want to say that you can say things and then make off limits the discussion of what you've just mentioned. Then why post in the first place? This is a debate forum, not a "what are you thinking" forum. We debate, we argue. If you don't want to participate in that proceedure, don't post. It's that simple.
 
Ikari said:
It really depends. Some are anti-theists, they want to take religion down. Others are defending themselves from theist attacks. If atheism was a visible trait, you could bet your bottom dollar who'd be the most discriminated class out there. Even in this more progressive era, atheism carries with it negative connotation. And depending on where you are at, it can lead to societal exclusion for you and your children.

I mean, in the end there are quite a few theists who want to play the victim card. Oh why are the atheists coming after me type of stuff. But they never pause to consider the opposite position, how have you theists treated atheists? It's not the pretty picture you may envision.
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Yes, I would tend to agree with you. One only has to look at Muslim sentiments in our country to understand that.
 
Okay, and again. It's not about faith. It's about boundaries. When somebody sets them, you observe them. If you can't, then prepare to be ignored or walked away from.

It's rather like trying to train a terrier. Cause and effect, yes? As I told my husband many times over the course of our marriage "Okay fine whatever. But you wanting an answer does not automatically entitle you to one. Sometimes we just don't get to know."

No matter how badly we behave when the answer is "MYOB".


Anarcho-fascist said:
Faith does not deserve special treatment in discussions.
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Ikari said:
Ok, but things were posted on a debate forum. People write things all the time, and you want to say that you can say things and then make off limits the discussion of what you've just mentioned. Then why post in the first place? This is a debate forum, not a "what are you thinking" forum. We debate, we argue. If you don't want to participate in that proceedure, don't post. It's that simple.
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I can more or less agree with you there. If one isn't willing to engage, the question would be, "Why post at all?" I think people who believe in God know that, in a debate, they will be losers in the minds of their adversaries, no? It's a no-win scenerio. But everyone has different reasons for using a public forum. Some to debate/argue...some to learn...some to teach...some to validate their own positions...some a combination of all and/or more.

Kinda' like, don't tell ME how ta' have fun. I'll do it my own way. And that's their right.
 
And as I said over there - read my posts. I have NEVER said anything like what you say in the post I am responding to. Nor would I. I don't have anywhere near all the answers, or any of them. I've never walked in anybody's shoes but my own. I'm huge on karma, and not judging because of it. I might believe in reincarnation. I'm not trying to carve out a territory ffs!! They are called boundaries. Everybody has them, except the people who don't, and everybody just walks all over them.

I know it's a shock, but I'm from America, and I do have the right to refuse to answer any questions. :) Me landing on this board does not remove those rights.


mbig said:
There's Nothing "passive" about about this aggression.

Someone started a string calling out a group of posters and indeed One specific one.

She, unlike everyone else here, demands a pass/no challenges for what she posts.
She's trying to carve out a territory without earning it with facts.
If she says the Earth is 6000 years old and created in 6 days by a god... how Dare you disagree!

Alas, she even got the endorsement of a mod for this.
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Okay, so if you don't like what I have to say, I'm whining? Gotcha. Doesn't make any sense, but whatever works for you, sweetpea.

mbig said:
NO you aren't.
You can and may be challenged.
That's what the OP is whining about.
She wants a pass, and be able to declare "I claim this board in the name of god" ("The creator"/"PBUH", etc) without a challenge.
The New Conquistadors/Jihad where infidels may not disagree.


Yes When I read the "borders" part I changed it to "almost".
But I 100% agree with calling [mere] Faith .. what it is..[mere] faith.
Amuse away.
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If I as a person make a conscious effort to treat everyone respectfully. To treat their beliefs respectfully, as long as they aren't trying to legislate the morality of others, then I don't think I should have to pay for what any other ****ed up person did to them in a negative fashion. And that's what it feels like your post is saying. I'm sorry they were ill-treated by theists, just like I'd be unamused if gays were hated on. It's just not okay. But I'm not the perpetrator, and I don't expect to be treated on anything other than my own merits.


Ikari said:
It really depends. Some are anti-theists, they want to take religion down. Others are defending themselves from theist attacks. If atheism was a visible trait, you could bet your bottom dollar who'd be the most discriminated class out there. Even in this more progressive era, atheism carries with it negative connotation. And depending on where you are at, it can lead to societal exclusion for you and your children.

I mean, in the end there are quite a few theists who want to play the victim card. Oh why are the atheists coming after me type of stuff. But they never pause to consider the opposite position, how have you theists treated atheists? It's not the pretty picture you may envision.
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He's also one of my best friends. We're a lot alike. :) He's a sweetheart. Too bad he's 20 years my junior.

rathi said:
In a professional setting, I would agree that it is probably a bad idea to criticize others religious (or political) beliefs. However, this board is expressly made for disagreement, and the whole point is to be able to argue.
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Exactly!! Why would it be any skin off their nose? I'm not 'one of those people'. Never have been. I can't say the words they want to hear. They want me to give them something that they can take apart and sorry, but I don't have anything up for grabs.

MaggieD said:
What's your point????? OP decided not to discuss her faith. Her choice. End of story.

Why is it that aetheists cannot help themselves? Many on public forums are always trying to "trap" believers. Why does it make any difference at ALL to an aetheist whether or not someone believes there is a god?

To the faithful, no proof is necessary. To a nonbeliever, no proof is enough.
Click to expand...
 
mbig said:
And neither are you shy about assessing others.
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Nope. So stop your crying. Everyone here does it.

mbig said:
In fact, (and talking about passive-aggressive and beyond) this is the only time I can remember you responding, or even acknowledging, a post of mine.
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Didn't realize I was obligated. No offense intended.

mbig said:
Yet we post oft in the same section.
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Indeed, we are stuck together in that hell hole.

mbig said:
You came in (or more accurately 'came back' after sparse years) and have seemingly used Ignore the whole time. There were no exchanges leading to this estrangement. No doubt, and I later realized, picking up this Hostility as a Family matter and only answer now for that same purpose.
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How perceptive of you. I read everything you write on this board. Do you somehow imagine I'm enamored with your attack shtick?

I'll be clear. Many of your posts are top notch. But this doesn't negate nor excuse your excursions into vindictiveness.
 
Shayah said:
Nope. So stop your crying. Everyone here does it.
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YOU brought it up first!
I merely pointed out it wasn't only me in direct response to.... Your "crying".
And you're of course skirting Tashah's support of the OP which you sought to bleach as mere "assessment".

Didn't realize I was obligated. No offense intended.
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You certainly are not in any way obligated. But it's a rather conspicuous situation.

Indeed, we are stuck together in that hell hole.
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On this we pretty much agree.
Cept you obviously were able to take years off.

How perceptive of you. I read everything you write on this board. Do you somehow imagine I'm enamored with your attack shtick?
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Not at all.
But it's odd not to agree, disagree, or acknowledge in any way in the crowded little "hell hole".
Until the below.
I'll be clear. Many of your posts are top notch. But this doesn't negate nor excuse your excursions into vindictiveness.
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Thank you for the first sentence.. and the second too.
I am too confrontational sometimes.
 
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mbig said:
On this we pretty much agree. Cept you obviously were able to take years off.
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I'm a busy gal mbig. Contantly shuttling between two continents.

Shayah said:
How perceptive of you. I read everything you write on this board. Do you somehow imagine I'm enamored with your attack shtick?
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mbig said:
Not at all. But it's odd not to agree, disagree, or acknowledge in any way in the crowded little "hell hole".
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You still don't grasp my thrust above. I can only help you so much here.

One more try. Vegas Rule.

mbig said:
Thank you for the first sentence.. and the second too. I am too confrontational sometimes.
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You are a very good poster... but sometimes your ego gets the better of you.
 
Ignore, ignore, ignore. Nothing to see here, just me going Oops!
 
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Okay, and again. It's not about faith. It's about boundaries. When somebody sets them, you observe them.
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Your boundaries are incompatible with the purpose of a debate forum. If you can't handle someone questioning your faith, don't go a debate forum about religion.

I know it's a shock, but I'm from America, and I do have the right to refuse to answer any questions. Me landing on this board does not remove those rights.
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No you don't. This a private board, and the owner of the website has all the power. Vague is a reasonable guy, and the forum rules are pretty fair, but you don't get constitutional protections here.

If I as a person make a conscious effort to treat everyone respectfully. To treat their beliefs respectfully, as long as they aren't trying to legislate the morality of others, then I don't think I should have to pay for what any other ****ed up person did to them in a negative fashion.
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This is a debate forum. Beliefs are questioned not respected. Granted, one doesn't have to be a jerk about it, but you should expect to have your ideas criticized. Respect for a position is earned through solid arguments, it is not given because you ask for it.
 
Obviously they are not. I up and left. :) AND ... it's not constitutional protection, it's Miranda rights. And ... I answered a question, by the first poster. That's all. I now refer you back to my first sentence.



rathi said:
Your boundaries are incompatible with the purpose of a debate forum. If you can't handle someone questioning your faith, don't go a debate forum about religion.



No you don't. This a private board, and the owner of the website has all the power. Vague is a reasonable guy, and the forum rules are pretty fair, but you don't get constitutional protections here.



This is a debate forum. Beliefs are questioned not respected. Granted, one doesn't have to be a jerk about it, but you should expect to have your ideas criticized. Respect for a position is earned through solid arguments, it is not given because you ask for it.
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BDBoop said:
"...I'm not trying to carve out a territory ffs!! They are called boundaries. Everybody has them, except the people who don't, and everybody just walks all over them.
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Not on message boards they don't.
Unless you want to start a Religion group and moderate it yourself.
Someone should if they haven't. It would spare you the unfortunate facts and us the breathtaking dogma.

I know it's a shock, but I'm from America, and I do have the right to refuse to answer any questions. :) Me landing on this board does not remove those rights.
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Me too! Born, bred, and barely been away save for some extended trips.
And everyone has the right to say what they want including Scourge99 who You sought to Muzzle right here IN America.
 
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Muzzle? This I must see. Aim me, please.
 
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