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Ukraine Says It Destroyed Part of Armed Convoy From Russia

DA60

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'Ukraine said its troops attacked and partially destroyed a column of armed vehicles that had crossed the border from Russian territory, while Russia said it was concerned about an attack on another convoy carrying aid.

Ukrainian government troops engaged the vehicles that had arrived overnight through a rebel-held section of the border, Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for the country’s military, told reporters in Kiev today. Ukrainian soldiers continue to come under shelling, including rounds fired from Russia, he said.'


Ukraine Says It Destroyed Part of Armed Convoy From Russia - Bloomberg


Uh oh?

Is this a one time mistake or an escalation?
 
'Ukraine said its troops attacked and partially destroyed a column of armed vehicles that had crossed the border from Russian territory, while Russia said it was concerned about an attack on another convoy carrying aid.

Ukrainian government troops engaged the vehicles that had arrived overnight through a rebel-held section of the border, Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for the country’s military, told reporters in Kiev today. Ukrainian soldiers continue to come under shelling, including rounds fired from Russia, he said.'


Ukraine Says It Destroyed Part of Armed Convoy From Russia - Bloomberg


Uh oh?

Is this a one time mistake or an escalation?

Has Russia confirmed that the military column was attacked?
 
It was stupid, that's what it was.

That 10s video on the link is not going to hold up in court.
Unless the Ukrainian govt can prove, like really, really prove with loads of evidence that nobody can twist or deny, that indeed the convoy was armed and was in fact, a military operation disguised as a humanitarian one, then it's going to be in big trouble because now Russia has casus belli.


EDIT: Putin will be singing this tune all the way to Kyiv.
 
This is the oddest of odd ploys by the Russians. They have a heavily armed convoy heading to Ukraine that they claim are "humanitarian aid" that crosses the border against the Ukrainian government's orders, and they want to complain about getting shot at?

The amount of raw cynicism in this stunt is simply stunning.
 
It was stupid, that's what it was.

That 10s video on the link is not going to hold up in court.
Unless the Ukrainian govt can prove, like really, really prove with loads of evidence that nobody can twist or deny, that indeed the convoy was armed and was in fact, a military operation disguised as a humanitarian one, then it's going to be in big trouble because now Russia has casus belli.

Quite simply: F*** that noise. Ukraine ordered that convoy not to cross the border and it crossed the border anyway. The Ukraine was entirely within its rights as a sovereign nation to blow that convoy to smithereens.
 
I propose we ask Ukraine to protect our borders, too!
 
This is the oddest of odd ploys by the Russians. They have a heavily armed convoy heading to Ukraine that they claim are "humanitarian aid" that crosses the border against the Ukrainian government's orders, and they want to complain about getting shot at?

The amount of raw cynicism in this stunt is simply stunning.

You don't understand, it doesn't matter what they sent.

Either the convoy reaches the separatists and they get armed and reinforced and the fighting continues or this happens... and now Russia has casus belli. Ukraine will be going against the clock to prove, beyond any doubt, not just reasonable doubt, that it was within rights to do this. This is going to be ukraine put not in a court of law by Russia, but in an execution block. One way or another, Russia will be getting something it wants out of this. Whether it's eastern ukraine, all ukraine... whether it's ukraine signing to become part of Russia' trade block... whatever Putin wants, he can go and make demands. You may find them unreasonable, I may find them unreasonable... guess who doesn't care...

Quite simply: F*** that noise. Ukraine ordered that convoy not to cross the border and it crossed the border anyway. The Ukraine was entirely within its rights as a sovereign nation to blow that convoy to smithereens.

Doesn't matter. Not here, not in this situation. Not to Putin.
 
Quite simply: F*** that noise. Ukraine ordered that convoy not to cross the border and it crossed the border anyway. The Ukraine was entirely within its rights as a sovereign nation to blow that convoy to smithereens.

That's what Kiev is saying! Or is it automatic that the thugs in Kiev are telling the truth and the thugs in Moscow aren't.
 
'Ukraine said its troops attacked and partially destroyed a column of armed vehicles that had crossed the border from Russian territory, while Russia said it was concerned about an attack on another convoy carrying aid.

Ukrainian government troops engaged the vehicles that had arrived overnight through a rebel-held section of the border, Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for the country’s military, told reporters in Kiev today. Ukrainian soldiers continue to come under shelling, including rounds fired from Russia, he said.'


Ukraine Says It Destroyed Part of Armed Convoy From Russia - Bloomberg


Uh oh?

Is this a one time mistake or an escalation?

Lol !

Putin said that was a convoy carrying air ?
 
You don't understand, it doesn't matter what they sent.

Either the convoy reaches the separatists and they get armed and reinforced and the fighting continues or this happens... and now Russia has casus belli. Ukraine will be going against the clock to prove, beyond any doubt, not just reasonable doubt, that it was within rights to do this. This is going to be ukraine put not in a court of law by Russia, but in an execution block. One way or another, Russia will be getting something it wants out of this. Whether it's eastern ukraine, all ukraine... whether it's ukraine signing to become part of Russia' trade block... whatever Putin wants, he can go and make demands. You may find them unreasonable, I may find them unreasonable... guess who doesn't care...

It isn't Casus Belli by any stretch of the imagination. These were Russians invading Ukrainian sovereign territory. The Ukranians were well within their right to blow the crap out of the Russians.

You can't invade another country and then claim casus belli when they kill you. I mean, that is Hitler-level militarized cynicism. I guess Putin knows his bull**** will be believed by some people...
 
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Good question.

This is from RT;

Aid convoy to Ukraine faces disruption, may be attacked - Russia

http://rt.com/news/180664-ukraine-russian-humanitarian-convoy/

Yep, I found that too, which essentially says that the Russian aid convoy stopped on their side of the border. Moscow approved a team of 47 Ukrainian and 18 international inspectors to cross into Russia and inspect the cargo before allowing it to enter Ukraine. And that Russia is concerned that the agreed upon route and destination between Kiev and Moscow, may be sabotaged. But I can't see where the alleged attack on a military convoy has been discussed.
 
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You don't understand, it doesn't matter what they sent.

Either the convoy reaches the separatists and they get armed and reinforced and the fighting continues or this happens... and now Russia has casus belli. Ukraine will be going against the clock to prove, beyond any doubt, not just reasonable doubt, that it was within rights to do this. This is going to be ukraine put not in a court of law by Russia, but in an execution block. One way or another, Russia will be getting something it wants out of this. Whether it's eastern ukraine, all ukraine... whether it's ukraine signing to become part of Russia' trade block... whatever Putin wants, he can go and make demands. You may find them unreasonable, I may find them unreasonable... guess who doesn't care...



Doesn't matter. Not here, not in this situation. Not to Putin.

Lets remember that Russia could not beat Georgia. Wonder if Putin is willing to let us find out just how much of a paper tiger Russia is by engaging Ukraine.
 
It was fine with the Aid convoy (if it really was for humanitarian cause).
As for armed convoy, they can blow them up any time. Everyone would do so if you pass their border.

However, I guess Russia is starting an attack on Ukraine.
Ukraine has already started to inspect the Russian aid convoy and guess what?? Many of the trucks are almost empty.
 
Quite simply: F*** that noise. Ukraine ordered that convoy not to cross the border and it crossed the border anyway. The Ukraine was entirely within its rights as a sovereign nation to blow that convoy to smithereens.

Not the same convoy!
 
It isn't Casus Belli by any stretch of the imagination. These were Russians invading Ukrainian sovereign territory. The Ukranians were well within their right to blow the crap out of the Russians.

You can't invade another country and then claim casus belli when they kill you.

It's never sovereign territory when you approve of the invasion, when it advances "US interests", and an invasion of sovereign territory when you don't support the action.
 
It isn't Casus Belli by any stretch of the imagination. These were Russians invading Ukrainian sovereign territory. The Ukranians were well within their right to blow the crap out of the Russians.

You can't invade another country and then claim casus belli when they kill you. I mean, that is Hitler-level militarized cynicism. I guess Putin knows his bull**** will be believed by some people...

You can't if you live in the logical world and wanna play by the rules.
You can if you're Russia and don't care about the real world or what the rest of the world says. Or doesn't say. Or whatever. it's not hitler-cynicism, it's putin-cynicism, which is a lot more cold and rational than hitlers' because he knows who can do smth-> not a lot of people, and who will do something -> nobody.
 
That's what Kiev is saying! Or is it automatic that the thugs in Kiev are telling the truth and the thugs in Moscow aren't.

Yeah, Ukrainians engage Russians inside Ukrainian territory.... who to believe... it is a mystery. :roll:

If you are ready to except the facts that both sides agree on, that there was a Russian convoy in Ukrainian territory, then that is all you need to know. The Russian convoy crossed the border against the express orders of the Ukrainian government and was therefor fair game.
 
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You can't if you live in the logical world and wanna play by the rules.
You can if you're Russia and don't care about the real world or what the rest of the world says. Or doesn't say. Or whatever. it's not hitler-cynicism, it's putin-cynicism, which is a lot more cold and rational than hitlers' because he knows who can do smth-> not a lot of people, and who will do something -> nobody.

But then the "casus belli" being claimed is utterly pointless. Nobody, including Putin and the Russian people, believe this bull**** so no need for the theatrical production. All this does is make it painfully clear that Putin's true intentions are an invasion of Ukraine.
 
Yeah, Ukrainians engage Russians inside Ukrainian territory.... who to believe... it is a mystery. :roll:

Again, your blindly accepting Kiev's report having not heard Russia's. You dislike Russia and Putin and your bias is showing. But I think we should be asking questions at this early stage, not making declarations and conclusions.
 
All this does is make it painfully clear that Putin's true intentions are an invasion of Ukraine.

I do not think Putin's intention was to invade Ukraine.
I believe that thanks to US/EU moves in 2014, he wanted to destabilize Ukraine.
And since US/EU isn't backing up + there are perfect conditions for Putin to invade Ukraine today (without a big deal) -> he may consider now.
 
Yeah, Ukrainians engage Russians inside Ukrainian territory.... who to believe... it is a mystery. :roll:

If you are ready to except the facts that both sides agree on, that there was a Russian convoy in Ukrainian territory, then that is all you need to know. The Russian convoy crossed the border against the express orders of the Ukrainian government and was therefor fair game.

I'm saying its early, and we have claims from both sides, and we don't know what transpired.
 
But then the "casus belli" being claimed is utterly pointless. Nobody, including Putin and the Russian people, believe this bull**** so no need for the theatrical production. All this does is make it painfully clear that Putin's true intentions are an invasion of Ukraine.

...

I'm not saying that it doesn't make the intentions to get something from ukraine clear, whether it's invasion or something else...

I'm just pointing out that ukraine was in a lose-lose position here and there is no escape from this.
 
Again, your blindly accepting Kiev's report having not heard Russia's. You dislike Russia and Putin and your bias is showing. But I think we should be asking questions at this early stage, not making declarations and conclusions.

I don't need to hear Russia's side of it. The facts of the case speak for themselves. A Russian convoy was destroyed in Ukrainian territory. The simple fact that they were in Ukrainian territory is all the justification needed by the Ukrainian Government. Geography trumps any bull**** Russian claim.
 
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