Readers react to Ozzie Guillen’s Castro comments

justabubba · Apr 10, 2012

Readers react to Ozzie Guillen's Castro comments - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

Miami Marlins manager Ozzie Guillen, who sparked a controversy over published remarks he made saying he "loved" and "respected" Fidel Castro

what did ozzie do that was so wrong?
he differentiated that while he respected castro the person he held no affection for castro's political beliefs
expressed similar sentiment for chavez in venezuela

is this a case where PC trumps free speech, because the marlins' ownership is trying to attract miami's cuban expatriate community

randel · Apr 10, 2012

justabubba said:
Readers react to Ozzie Guillen's Castro comments - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

what did ozzie do that was so wrong?
he differentiated that while he respected castro the person he held no affection for castro's political beliefs
expressed similar sentiment for chavez in venezuela

is this a case where PC trumps free speech, because the marlins' ownership is trying to attract miami's cuban expatriate community

ozzie has been suspended for 5 games by miami management

buck · Apr 10, 2012

justabubba said:
Readers react to Ozzie Guillen's Castro comments - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

what did ozzie do that was so wrong?

As you said, Ozzie is in Miami managing at a ballpark near little Havanna which is mostly made up of people that escaped Cuba and Castro's regime. The Marlins need to attract the fans, including the ex-cubans (who are big baseball fans), and Ozzie's comment will make that even more difficult - add in the reaction from leaders of the local community and...

As a White Sox fan, Ozzie is a big mouth who was not much of a manager, IMO. However, the Marlin's need to control him somehow, and I would assume they hope that if he sees there really will be consequences, it might go a small way to controlling his mouth - ever so slightly. He said a lot of stupid stuff up here in Chicago, and he didn't face much reaction from ownership.

AdamT · Apr 10, 2012

Your pre-Castro Cubans are so eaten up with hatred towards Fidel that anything even remotely suggesting that he isn't the devil incarnate is considered beyond the pale. As a non-Cuban living in Miami ... it gets old fast.

Kreton · Apr 10, 2012

justabubba said:
Readers react to Ozzie Guillen's Castro comments - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

what did ozzie do that was so wrong?
he differentiated that while he respected castro the person he held no affection for castro's political beliefs
expressed similar sentiment for chavez in venezuela

is this a case where PC trumps free speech, because the marlins' ownership is trying to attract miami's cuban expatriate community

the problem is Castro suppressed and killed large amounts of people. Within many communities, especially cubans, he is despised as much as hitler, gadhafi, sung or stalin. He has the right to free speech and people have the right to react to his comments.

Mensch · Apr 10, 2012

AdamT said:
Your pre-Castro Cubans are so eaten up with hatred towards Fidel that anything even remotely suggesting that he isn't the devil incarnate is considered beyond the pale. As a non-Cuban living in Miami ... it gets old fast.

Cuba Archive: Verdad y Memoria - A Truth and Memory Project - Home

Maybe this is why.

Being surrounded by Peruvians, I can tell you that most of them do not praise Alberto Fujimori, a dictator who ruled with an iron fist during the 1990s, just because he was better than his predecessor.

buck · Apr 10, 2012

AdamT said:
Your pre-Castro Cubans are so eaten up with hatred towards Fidel that anything even remotely suggesting that he isn't the devil incarnate is considered beyond the pale. As a non-Cuban living in Miami ... it gets old fast.

Yeah. I have no doubt you know what they experienced and their relatives are currently experiencing better than they do. How dare they not like the man and not want to support someone that would say nice things about him.

MaggieD · Apr 10, 2012

justabubba said:
Is this a case where PC trumps free speech, because the marlins' ownership is trying to attract miami's cuban expatriate community

Yes. Are you critical of that? People have a much inflated view of what free speech is all about, that's for sure.

Free speech. You've got it. You won't be arrested for it. But you also have all of the other consequences that free speech brings your way.

Samhain · Apr 10, 2012

Ozzie Guillen said:
"I love Fidel Castro... You know why? Many people have tried to kill Fidel Castro in the last 60 years, yet that [SOB] is still there."

Drop off everything after the ..., and you can see why people would be pissed.

Put it all back into context, and he's basically admiring an asshole for being an asshole.

Which is an accurate summation of Ozzie Guillen's entire carreer in baseball.

justabubba · Apr 10, 2012

muciti said:
the problem is Castro suppressed and killed large amounts of people. Within many communities, especially cubans, he is despised as much as hitler, gadhafi, sung or stalin. He has the right to free speech and people have the right to react to his comments.

no problem with what you say
but should ozzie be suspended for the five games because he chose to express his personal opinion?

TheDemSocialist · Apr 10, 2012

Sweet Ozzie spoke his mind, and said he admired Fidel Castro. Sure I admire the man too, but not everything he has done...

AdamT · Apr 10, 2012

buck said:
Yeah. I have no doubt you know what they experienced and their relatives are currently experiencing better than they do. How dare they not like the man and not want to support someone that would say nice things about him.

I understand their reasons, but for ****'s sake, it's been over 50 years. Their hatred of Castro has caused immeasurable suffering for those Cubans still living in Cuba -- and has probably been more responsible than anything for keeping him in power all these years.

Kreton · Apr 10, 2012

justabubba said:
no problem with what you say
but should ozzie be suspended for the five games because he chose to express his personal opinion?

Given that part of his position includes the public image of the team, I do agree. I even think they would be ok with firing him. When you are the public face of an organization you are responsible for what you say publically. If somoene secretely recorded him saying that to his wife, I wouldn't think a suspension would be warranted. But he said this publically and hurt the organization that he works for. An organization that relies on their fans.

justabubba · Apr 10, 2012

muciti said:
Given that part of his position includes the public image of the team, I do agree. I even think they would be ok with firing him. When you are the public face of an organization you are responsible for what you say publically. If somoene secretely recorded him saying that to his wife, I wouldn't think a suspension would be warranted. But he said this publically and hurt the organization that he works for. An organization that relies on their fans.

how about if a yankee baseball player said he opposed bibi's policy oppressing gazans. would that be punishable in a city with an influential jewish population?
or if a detroit or atlanta baseball player expressed opposition to al sharpton stirring the racial pot in florida. would that deserve suspension because of the significant black population in those cities?

buck · Apr 10, 2012

justabubba said:
how about if a yankee baseball player said he opposed bibi's policy oppressing gazans. would that be punishable in a city with an influential jewish population?
or if a detroit or atlanta baseball player expressed opposition to al sharpton stirring the racial pot in florida. would that deserve suspension because of the significant black population in those cities?

I would think that would be up to the individual organizations and how much pressure they were recieving from outside groups/their fans.

justabubba · Apr 10, 2012

buck said:
I would think that would be up to the individual organizations and how much pressure they were recieving from outside groups/their fans.

how about if the players prefaced their statements insisting they were not expressing those of the organization but were only voicing their personal opinions

Blue_State · Apr 10, 2012

In all honesty, if you ever watch a Marlin's game, there is no one in the stands. Not sure this is going to change that.

Kreton · Apr 10, 2012

justabubba said:
how about if a yankee baseball player said he opposed bibi's policy oppressing gazans. would that be punishable in a city with an influential jewish population?
or if a detroit or atlanta baseball player expressed opposition to al sharpton stirring the racial pot in florida. would that deserve suspension because of the significant black population in those cities?

Yes. I think so. Again these guys are public faces for their organizations. If someone for the Lions comes out and takes a jab at Sharpton and pisses off a large part of the fanbase, then the team should take action to appease those fans. It doesn't matter what they say, if they are giving controversial statements unrelated to the team/sport then they should be prepared to deal with the reprocussions of it.

Think about the Marlins. Because of what Ozzie said they may lose tickets sales, and merchandising sales. They could lose fans over it. There is no shortage of teams to root for in the MLB. Ozzie driving away fans, and money is counterproductive to the teams efforts.

buck · Apr 10, 2012

justabubba said:
how about if the players prefaced their statements insisting they were not expressing those of the organization but were only voicing their personal opinions

It's still up to the organization and whatever contract they have signed with the players/managers.

radcen · Apr 10, 2012

Samhain said:
Drop off everything after the ..., and you can see why people would be pissed.

Put it all back into context, and he's basically admiring an asshole for being an asshole.

Which is an accurate summation of Ozzie Guillen's entire carreer in baseball.

Pretty much this.

Yes, Ozzie is a bonehead who often speaks before he thinks... if he thinks at all. Having said that... exactly what he said when taken in context isn't as bad as people are taking it.

Yes, the responses are PC to the most absurd degree.

Yes, Ozzie is not free from repercussions. However, that does not mean that those who are PC and/or offended get a free ride for being offended when they take statements out of context. It's a two-way street. They have to suffer the consequences of unreasonable responses to empty statements just as much as the other guy... and if that means calling them out over it, then so be it.

Note: I am not, and have never been, a fan of Ozzie as a person... I think he's an ass... but I have to be fair and this is much ado about nothing.

AdamT · Apr 11, 2012

Blue_State said:
In all honesty, if you ever watch a Marlin's game, there is no one in the stands. Not sure this is going to change that.

They just moved into a brand new, beautiful, retractrable roof stadium, and the owner finally opened his wallet to get some legitimate stars. I think the days of the Marlins playing to an empty house are over. It sucked watching them play in a football stadium in the blazing sun, with frequent downpours.

Rapunzel52 · Apr 11, 2012

justabubba said:
Readers react to Ozzie Guillen's Castro comments - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

what did ozzie do that was so wrong?
he differentiated that while he respected castro the person he held no affection for castro's political beliefs
expressed similar sentiment for chavez in venezuela

is this a case where PC trumps free speech, because the marlins' ownership is trying to attract miami's cuban expatriate community

What exactly does he respect about him? His police state? Human rights? Spying on neighbors and reporting back to the regime? Speaking against the regime lands you in prison. His regime has had the longest serving political prisoner in world history: over 28 years. Disease, suicides, murdering his own people. Yeah, I can see how he would have respect for the man.

It's rhetorical...no answer is necessary.

DVSentinel · Apr 11, 2012

The team is a business that relies on public support. Yes, the individual has the right to free speech, but the team also has to right to protect itself. The team would be completely justified taking any action against this individual if his "free speech" is not to the owners liking or if they feel that he has done something to damage the team, their business. Of course, in this case, the manager is under a contract and they cannot fire him unless he breaks the contract or they pay off that contract. Any business has the right to fire employees for whatever reason they choose, if you don't like it, then you as a member of society have the right not to do business with them if you dissaprove.

iliveonramen · Apr 11, 2012

DVSentinel said:
The team is a business that relies on public support. Yes, the individual has the right to free speech, but the team also has to right to protect itself. The team would be completely justified taking any action against this individual if his "free speech" is not to the owners liking or if they feel that he has done something to damage the team, their business. Of course, in this case, the manager is under a contract and they cannot fire him unless he breaks the contract or they pay off that contract. Any business has the right to fire employees for whatever reason they choose, if you don't like it, then you as a member of society have the right not to do business with them if you dissaprove.

Yeah this pretty much sums up my view.

Blue_State · Apr 11, 2012

AdamT said:
They just moved into a brand new, beautiful, retractrable roof stadium, and the owner finally opened his wallet to get some legitimate stars. I think the days of the Marlins playing to an empty house are over. It sucked watching them play in a football stadium in the blazing sun, with frequent downpours.
View attachment 67125700

I hope so for a World Series winning team.

Readers react to Ozzie Guillen’s Castro comments

justabubba

long standing member

randel

buck

AdamT

Kreton

Doesn't know

Mensch

Mr. Professional

buck

MaggieD

Samhain

justabubba

long standing member

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist

AdamT

Kreton

Doesn't know

justabubba

long standing member

buck

justabubba

long standing member

Blue_State

Kreton

Doesn't know

buck

radcen

Phonetic Mnemonic ©

AdamT

Rapunzel52

Well-known member

DVSentinel

iliveonramen

Pontificator

Blue_State