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Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers

MaggieD

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Here we go again . . .
An energy company that received a $43 million loan guarantee through the same federal program that backed Solyndra has followed the path of the failed solar firm and filed for bankruptcy. Beacon Power Corporation filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on Sunday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Delaware. The company, which develops energy storage systems based on what are known as "flywheels," had received the federal guarantee for a 20-megawatt energy storage plant in Stephentown, N.Y., back in August 2010. The loan was expected to cover the lion's share of the $69 million project, one of several that Beacon was developing across the country. (snip)

Rep. Morgan Griffith, R-Va., who sits on the House Energy and Commerce oversight subcommittee probing the program, said the news about Beacon Power is troubling. "We're very, very concerned about this and many other loans that have been made by the Department of Energy over the last several years," he told Fox News on Monday. Griffith said plenty of companies in the U.S. would make "good prospects" for federal help, but the committee investigation is trying to find out whether the government was "just trying to get the money out the door."

Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., ranking member of the Senate Banking Committee, called the revelation of the bankruptcy another example of "the reckless abuse of taxpayers' dollars in the pursuit of green jobs." He also suggested that crony capitalism had a hand in the decision to give Beacon a loan.

Read more: Another Energy Company Goes Bankrupt, $39 Million Borrowed From Taxpayers | Fox News

This is out-and-out theft from the taxpayers. When do the prosecutions start??
 
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Here we go again . . .


This is out-and-out theft from the taxpayers. When do the prosecutions start??

Actually, Beacon is engaged in the business of frequency regulation, or "load leveling" for power grids. An article is here:

Beacon Power's Spin on Energy Storage: It's a Service : Greentech Media

Their kinetic batteries have considerable advantages over batteries or fuel cells. Initial cost is high, but per-cycle costs are considerably lower.

They have a functioning plant, and another in the works.

This isn't pie in the sky buck rogers silliness (hell, if the silicon market had remained as tight as it was, Solyndra would be a hot stock)

This is apparently simply a result of a bad overall economy. They built an actual 20 megawatt plant with that loan, it wasn't flushed down the toilet. Its a young, capital hungry business in a capital poor environment. Hopefully they will be able to pull out, as the service they provide is going to be more and more important as our electrical grid evolves.
 
Actually, Beacon is engaged in the business of frequency regulation, or "load leveling" for power grids. An article is here:

Beacon Power's Spin on Energy Storage: It's a Service : Greentech Media

Their kinetic batteries have considerable advantages over batteries or fuel cells. Initial cost is high, but per-cycle costs are considerably lower.

They have a functioning plant, and another in the works.

This isn't pie in the sky buck rogers silliness (hell, if the silicon market had remained as tight as it was, Solyndra would be a hot stock)

This is apparently simply a result of a bad overall economy. They built an actual 20 megawatt plant with that loan, it wasn't flushed down the toilet. Its a young, capital hungry business in a capital poor environment. Hopefully they will be able to pull out, as the service they provide is going to be more and more important as our electrical grid evolves.

Since money is fungible, and since they've filed bankruptcy, and since we guaranteed $43 million of their loans, I think taxpayers can safely assume they're out $43 million.
 
Since money is fungible, and since they've filed bankruptcy, and since we guaranteed $43 million of their loans, I think taxpayers can safely assume they're out $43 million.

I dont know, a fully functioning 20 megawatt energy storage/frequency regulation plant has got to be worth something.

My hotrod electric bike I built carries just over half a kilowatt. A lithium power pack costs about $700 retail. Markup isn't high, so lets say $1000 a kilowatt for lithium storage, about a dollar a watt. So $20 million in flywheels alone, plus realestate the facility itself and whatever the value of existing business is as the plant is operating at capacity. So its not like their assets are worthless. Or that they can't sell what they are selling.
 
Here we go again . . .


This is out-and-out theft from the taxpayers. When do the prosecutions start??

It's too bad that the GOP aren't going after the wasted money spent on contractors for projects in Iraq and Afghanistan with the same enthusiasm that they're going after energy loans the Obama administration made.

Especially since the results of the former got people killed.
 
I dont know, a fully functioning 20 megawatt energy storage/frequency regulation plant has got to be worth something.

My hotrod electric bike I built carries just over half a kilowatt. A lithium power pack costs about $700 retail. Markup isn't high, so lets say $1000 a kilowatt for lithium storage, about a dollar a watt. So $20 million in flywheels alone, plus realestate the facility itself and whatever the value of existing business is as the plant is operating at capacity. So its not like their assets are worthless. Or that they can't sell what they are selling.

Obviously not. :rofl

The so called green energy is going to have to tighten up if they want to put the oil companies out of business. :lamo
 
Obviously not. :rofl

The so called green energy is going to have to tighten up if they want to put the oil companies out of business. :lamo

Has NOTHING to do with green energy, except as a balancing factor for intermittent sources like wind.

Frequency regulation is a key component of oir electrical grid system. It has traditionally been performed by generators, which must be kept turning at all times at a fraction of their output. Flywheels are kinetic batteries, and require no fuel input to perform this function.

Sometimes a new thing is just a good new thing and not some evil conspiracy to put you out of a job.

And sometimes a business experiences difficulties due to the economy at large, not because it is actually unviable.

Hatred af anything "green" just because its "green" is ridiculous.

I happen to know a bit aboht flywheels as I had hoped they would be a viable vehicle energy source. Weight of containment and shock sensitivity at this point in time render them unsuitable for vehicles. But they work great for UPS and frequency regulation purposes.

An estimated 2-4% of additional generation could be obtained without building new plants by freeing turbines from their role in FR and replacing them with flywheels. Allowing the turbines to operate at full power for generation.
 
I wonder which Obama bundler is set up to benefit here?
 
I don't understand this rabid anti-investment attitude. If this was 1950 alternative energy would be considered a national security problem and the government would of spent oodles of money to solve the problem. Like anything else there's failures and advancement but this Conservative obsession over every failure seems to point to this idea that the United States should get out of subsidizing research or something. Historical the US as subsidized more research than any other country in the world. It's why we were so more advanced on computers, the microchip, sattelite technology, the internet, etc.

It seems like you guys are so obsessed with taxes you just wanna hold your fistful of dollars while America slips into decline.
 
Here we go again . . .


This is out-and-out theft from the taxpayers. When do the prosecutions start??

At the exact same time Goldmen Sachs gets prosecuted and executed in Texas. :)
 
It's too bad that the GOP aren't going after the wasted money spent on contractors for projects in Iraq and Afghanistan with the same enthusiasm that they're going after energy loans the Obama administration made.

Especially since the results of the former got people killed.

What a post. "Yeah, but look what they did." You might want to hone your discussion skills.

I don't understand this rabid anti-investment attitude. If this was 1950 alternative energy would be considered a national security problem and the government would of spent oodles of money to solve the problem. Like anything else there's failures and advancement but this Conservative obsession over every failure seems to point to this idea that the United States should get out of subsidizing research or something. Historical the US as subsidized more research than any other country in the world. It's why we were so more advanced on computers, the microchip, sattelite technology, the internet, etc.

It seems like you guys are so obsessed with taxes you just wanna hold your fistful of dollars while America slips into decline.

If our government is going to subsidize research, the very LEAST they can do is make sure the companies they invest in have legs. Two (so far) didn't. Flushing money down the toilet, I'd say.
 
If our government is going to subsidize research, the very LEAST they can do is make sure the companies they invest in have legs. Two (so far) didn't. Flushing money down the toilet, I'd say.

I agree Maggie. Make it count. The thing is, these are private companies, that burn through cash due to the capital intensive nature of these technologies. I personally think this will end up being my generations (not sure you're age) space race/Manhattan Project. The potentiol for cheap reusable energy source will change the world as much as the Industrial Revolution did.
 
What a post. "Yeah, but look what they did." You might want to hone your discussion skills.

You may want to hone your own, since my indictment can easily be against both sides rather than one side.

But what about you? When are you going to get up in arms on the wasteful spending that was done in the construction of faulty buildings that got our people in uniform electrocuted and killed?
 
You may want to hone your own, since my indictment can easily be against both sides rather than one side.

But what about you? When are you going to get up in arms on the wasteful spending that was done in the construction of faulty buildings that got our people in uniform electrocuted and killed?

That pissed me off to no end. I felt walking into Houston and riflebutting a KBR Exec in the face.
 
You may want to hone your own, since my indictment can easily be against both sides rather than one side.

But what about you? When are you going to get up in arms on the wasteful spending that was done in the construction of faulty buildings that got our people in uniform electrocuted and killed?

Your indictment, as you call it, was all about partisan crap.

Why do posters always see "partisan" on every post? Should I blame Bush for hand-picking these companies just to make the left happy? It's on Obama 'cause he's the one responsible. Have other presidents done things as bad? Yes. Does that mean we shouldn't talk about Obama's failures? I guess if you support him, we're not supposed to. Fat chance.

Edit: Forgot about your last line. I assume Dems are investigating?
 
In the mean time DOE is screwing over class acts in the industry such as First Solar by not guaranteeing their multi billion dollar projects. Despite the fact that these projects will still go through and be profitable it is frustrating to read that they have made piss poor investment decisions elsewhere and decide not to go along with the good projects.
 
In the mean time DOE is screwing over class acts in the industry such as First Solar by not guaranteeing their multi billion dollar projects. Despite the fact that these projects will still go through and be profitable it is frustrating to read that they have made piss poor investment decisions elsewhere and decide not to go along with the good projects.

Every failure has turned into a "scandal". Now the DOE and government is gun shy about investing in any company. If we wait around till we're insured 100% return we'll be so far behind the game we'll never catch up.
 
Your indictment, as you call it, was all about partisan crap.

And yet you show your own partisan crap, so I suppose your discussion skills aren't as honed as you think.

Why do posters always see "partisan" on every post?

Well you certainly seem to, despite your own discussion skills, so why shouldn't others?

Should I blame Bush for hand-picking these companies just to make the left happy?

I can't tell you what you should or should do. But I blame the Bush administration and the Congresses during his administration for wasting far more money on construction contracts than the Obama administration and the Congresses during his administration wasted on energy research. And the energy research didn't get someone killed. The same can't be said of those construction contracts.


It's on Obama 'cause he's the one responsible. Have other presidents done things as bad? Yes. Does that mean we shouldn't talk about Obama's failures? I guess if you support him, we're not supposed to. Fat chance.

I never said we shouldn't take Obama to task for this. I was just pointing out that the GOPers in Congress weren't going after Bush for wasting more money that resulted in deaths of our military men. I would like to know why.

Edit: Forgot about your last line. I assume Dems are investigating?

How can you expect the GOP to faithfully and honestly investigate and prevent wasteful government spending if you can't expect the GOP Congressmen to do so when they're in power or when a Republican is President?
 
And yet you show your own partisan crap, so I suppose your discussion skills aren't as honed as you think.

Well you certainly seem to, despite your own discussion skills, so why shouldn't others?

I can't tell you what you should or should do. But I blame the Bush administration and the Congresses during his administration for wasting far more money on construction contracts than the Obama administration and the Congresses during his administration wasted on energy research. And the energy research didn't get someone killed. The same can't be said of those construction contracts.

I never said we shouldn't take Obama to task for this. I was just pointing out that the GOPers in Congress weren't going after Bush for wasting more money that resulted in deaths of our military men. I would like to know why.

How can you expect the GOP to faithfully and honestly investigate and prevent wasteful government spending if you can't expect the GOP Congressmen to do so when they're in power or when a Republican is President?

This thread was started to discuss the administration's investment in now two failed companies. You want to make it, "Yeah, but look what the GOP did." I've never on one post ever ever said, "Yeah, but your guy's worse." That is just so lame.

I ask you this: "I assume the Dems are investigating?"

And you reply:

How can you expect the GOP to faithfully and honestly investigate and prevent wasteful government spending if you can't expect the GOP Congressmen to do so when they're in power or when a Republican is President?

What??
 
Every failure has turned into a "scandal". Now the DOE and government is gun shy about investing in any company. If we wait around till we're insured 100% return we'll be so far behind the game we'll never catch up.

I agree, the media has made the DOE very gun shy and it came at an extremely bad time for the industry. The congressman who put out the big stink recently is a jackass for doing it when he did. People have a right to be pissed off, but it has caused very good companies to have to bite the bullet while we see the bad investments fall through like this. Worst possible outcome. A lot of the solar bankruptcies right now have to do with the Chinese government over subsidizing their own companies and flooding the market with cheap solar panels while developed countries such as in the US or EU are cutting back on solar subsidies. Few firms are able to compete except industry leaders like First Solar. Just give it a few years, some big names in the industry have said PV is nearing grid parity, and with these bankruptcies and tough competition, it will only get there faster.
 
I don't understand this rabid anti-investment attitude. If this was 1950 alternative energy would be considered a national security problem and the government would of spent oodles of money to solve the problem. Like anything else there's failures and advancement but this Conservative obsession over every failure seems to point to this idea that the United States should get out of subsidizing research or something. Historical the US as subsidized more research than any other country in the world. It's why we were so more advanced on computers, the microchip, sattelite technology, the internet, etc.

It seems like you guys are so obsessed with taxes you just wanna hold your fistful of dollars while America slips into decline.

I believe that if these were good investments people would be lining up to give them money.
 
This thread was started to discuss the administration's investment in now two failed companies. You want to make it, "Yeah, but look what the GOP did." I've never on one post ever ever said, "Yeah, but your guy's worse." That is just so lame.

I didn't post, "Look what the GOP did." I posted, "Look what the GOP didn't do."

You seem to praise the GOP for going after the Obama's administration for wasteful spending. But I'm questioning why you aren't pointing out how the GOP has wasted more money and did so in a way that has killed soldiers?

The fact that you refuse to address this is lamer.

I ask you this: "I assume the Dems are investigating?"

And you reply:

What??

Please hone your discussion skills so you can follow the thread better.

Why do you expect only Democrats to go against wasteful spending done by GOP Congresses and Presidents?

Why don't you expect Republicans to go against wasteful spending done by GOP Congresses and Presidents?

The fact that you don't only shows how inherently partisan your thinking is.

Wasteful spending should be gone against by both Republicans and Democrats no matter who does it.

If we do not expect that, then you can't honestly be aghast by wasteful spending. You're just aghast when the other side does it. Which is as partisan as you can get.
 
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I believe that if these were good investments people would be lining up to give them money.

Just like morgages, student loans, FDIC, etc... I wonder why they call it a subsidy, by god you must be a genius.
 
I didn't post, "Look what the GOP did." I posted, "Look what the GOP didn't do."

You seem to praise the GOP for going after the Obama's administration for wasteful spending. But I'm questioning why you aren't pointing out how the GOP has wasted more money and did so in a way that has killed soldiers?

The fact that you refuse to address this is lamer.

Please hone your discussion skills so you can follow the thread better.

Why do you expect only Democrats to go against wasteful spending done by GOP Congresses and Presidents?

Why don't you expect Republicans to go against wasteful spending done by GOP Congresses and Presidents?

The fact that you don't only shows how inherently partisan your thinking is.

Wasteful spending should be gone against by both Republicans and Democrats no matter who does it.

If we do not expect that, then you can't honestly be aghast by wasteful spending. You're just aghast when the other side does it. Which is as partisan as you can get.

This thread was about a specific project that went belly up. Let me know when you're sober. You're making absolutely no sense at all.
 
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