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If Republicans Offer a Shorter Term Deal

If Republicans Pass a smaller Debt Ceiling Increase; What should Democrats Do?

  • Accept it and continue to work towards the "President's Big Deal"

    Votes: 7 53.8%
  • Refuse it and "send the economy into default"

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • Run out the clock and then pass it in a hurry after Aug 2, to scare Seniors

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Total voters
    13

cpwill

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The President says he wants a "big deal" because he doesn't want to "kick the can down the road".

Mind you, he spent most of the year wanting to do precisely that - calling for a "clean" debt ceiling bill. But be that as it may.


It is also becoming clear that the two sides may have (at this point) mutually defeating points on which they are unwilling to budge. Most specifically, Republicans will not raise taxes and Democrats are refusing to not raise taxes. Both sides, however, agree that they "want to reduce the deficit" (though given that Democrats are calling for additional spending in this deal, I maintain my own opinion on how serious they are about this).


The Secretary of the Treasury, the President, and most of the high-level Democratic Leadership are generally pretty sure that the heavens will split and the antichrist will come forth on August 3. That's a bit of an exaggeration; but not much. Republicans point out that we have enough money to pay for our debt, social security, medicare, the troops, and half of Medicaid; and so it's unlikely to be quite the disaster predicted.... but both agree it's going to be intensely painful; and probably harmful to an anemic and exceedingly weak recovery.



Ergo: more than a few conservatives are proposing that the House go ahead and pass a debt - ceiling increase matched to spending cuts of their choosing. The amount can be large enough to buy us room to negotiate the Big Deal that the President now claims to want (tax reform, entitlement reform, and so on and so forth), but not be so huge as to be Republicans trying to force a one-sided approach to the debt ceiling between now and Nov 2012.

Should Republicans take their advice, and pass (say) a three to five month extension of the debt ceiling tied to spending cuts to match; what should the Administration and Senate Democrats do? The ball will be in their court to either accept the rise, or go into an economic period that they claim would be disastrous for the nation. They would be then forced to make the argument that these upheavals were worth them shooting for political advantage - an argument not slated to go over well with the electorate.
 
With the given scenario and question, I'd be pissed off if the Democrats started doing their own political maneuvering and tried to either block it, or pass it shortly after the 2nd. If they maneuvered, I'd think they were being dou**e's, and if they passed it after the 2nd...well, damage already done, Moody's would probably downgrade us from a AAA, and that Chinese rating agency (can't quite think of its name right now) would probably do the same, and you can kiss the partial recovery good-bye as the world markets go into shock over this, and everyone gets f**ked over...again.
 
The President says he wants a "big deal" because he doesn't want to "kick the can down the road".

Mind you, he spent most of the year wanting to do precisely that - calling for a "clean" debt ceiling bill. But be that as it may.


It is also becoming clear that the two sides may have (at this point) mutually defeating points on which they are unwilling to budge. Most specifically, Republicans will not raise taxes and Democrats are refusing to not raise taxes. Both sides, however, agree that they "want to reduce the deficit" (though given that Democrats are calling for additional spending in this deal, I maintain my own opinion on how serious they are about this).


The Secretary of the Treasury, the President, and most of the high-level Democratic Leadership are generally pretty sure that the heavens will split and the antichrist will come forth on August 3. That's a bit of an exaggeration; but not much. Republicans point out that we have enough money to pay for our debt, social security, medicare, the troops, and half of Medicaid; and so it's unlikely to be quite the disaster predicted.... but both agree it's going to be intensely painful; and probably harmful to an anemic and exceedingly weak recovery.



Ergo: more than a few conservatives are proposing that the House go ahead and pass a debt - ceiling increase matched to spending cuts of their choosing. The amount can be large enough to buy us room to negotiate the Big Deal that the President now claims to want (tax reform, entitlement reform, and so on and so forth), but not be so huge as to be Republicans trying to force a one-sided approach to the debt ceiling between now and Nov 2012.

Should Republicans take their advice, and pass (say) a three to five month extension of the debt ceiling tied to spending cuts to match; what should the Administration and Senate Democrats do? The ball will be in their court to either accept the rise, or go into an economic period that they claim would be disastrous for the nation. They would be then forced to make the argument that these upheavals were worth them shooting for political advantage - an argument not slated to go over well with the electorate.

..the truth is that the TEAPARTY refuses to compromise....cantor is a jackass...oh btw a multimillionaire jackass who has his own self interest in the forefront....
 
With the given scenario and question, I'd be pissed off if the Democrats started doing their own political maneuvering and tried to either block it, or pass it shortly after the 2nd. If they maneuvered, I'd think they were being dou**e's, and if they passed it after the 2nd...well, damage already done, Moody's would probably downgrade us from a AAA, and that Chinese rating agency (can't quite think of its name right now) would probably do the same, and you can kiss the partial recovery good-bye as the world markets go into shock over this, and everyone gets f**ked over...again.

Worried About Debt Limit? The Bond Market Isn’t
 
Well, the SHOULD do the 1st option in the poll... what they WILL do is the 3rd option in the poll. :shrug:
 
Wouldnd't it also be possible for the Democrats to ignore the plan, and raise the ceiling through the procedure McConnell outlined?
 
cpwill, excellent loaded choices. You never miss an opportunity. Accept it and continue to work towards the "President's Big Deal" Yup, absolutely, and I predict he will. btw Who are you quoting?
 
Wouldnd't it also be possible for the Democrats to ignore the plan, and raise the ceiling through the procedure McConnell outlined?

no - they would still need the House to introduce that legislation; Boehner isn't about to do that (I think); and if Obama tries it anyway we face a Constitutional crises on top of a debt and deficit crises.
 
cpwill, excellent loaded choices. You never miss an opportunity. Accept it and continue to work towards the "President's Big Deal" Yup, absolutely, and I predict he will. btw Who are you quoting?

if Republicans take that action; those are the rough three options I see for Democrats. the phrasing is my own; but the idea originally came from Charles Krauthammer.
 
all three are lousy options and appear to be carefully selected to present limited options for partisan purposes.

Charles Krauthammer is a blithering idiot.
 
such a blithering idiot that he's able to turn this situation, which currently favors the President, into one that heavily favors the Republicans?


:roll:
 
hmmmm.... should have made this poll public. Mods - can you help us out?
 
hmmmm.... should have made this poll public. Mods - can you help us out?

Moderator's Warning:
Apparently no. Two of us looked and saw no way to change this. An admin might be able to.
 
The President says he wants a "big deal" because he doesn't want to "kick the can down the road".

Mind you, he spent most of the year wanting to do precisely that - calling for a "clean" debt ceiling bill. But be that as it may.


It is also becoming clear that the two sides may have (at this point) mutually defeating points on which they are unwilling to budge. Most specifically, Republicans will not raise taxes and Democrats are refusing to not raise taxes. Both sides, however, agree that they "want to reduce the deficit" (though given that Democrats are calling for additional spending in this deal, I maintain my own opinion on how serious they are about this).


The Secretary of the Treasury, the President, and most of the high-level Democratic Leadership are generally pretty sure that the heavens will split and the antichrist will come forth on August 3. That's a bit of an exaggeration; but not much. Republicans point out that we have enough money to pay for our debt, social security, medicare, the troops, and half of Medicaid; and so it's unlikely to be quite the disaster predicted.... but both agree it's going to be intensely painful; and probably harmful to an anemic and exceedingly weak recovery.



Ergo: more than a few conservatives are proposing that the House go ahead and pass a debt - ceiling increase matched to spending cuts of their choosing. The amount can be large enough to buy us room to negotiate the Big Deal that the President now claims to want (tax reform, entitlement reform, and so on and so forth), but not be so huge as to be Republicans trying to force a one-sided approach to the debt ceiling between now and Nov 2012.

Should Republicans take their advice, and pass (say) a three to five month extension of the debt ceiling tied to spending cuts to match; what should the Administration and Senate Democrats do? The ball will be in their court to either accept the rise, or go into an economic period that they claim would be disastrous for the nation. They would be then forced to make the argument that these upheavals were worth them shooting for political advantage - an argument not slated to go over well with the electorate.

Holy push polling!

To make my reply in the nature of your post: Since republicans only care about spending when it is democrats who do it, I would call their bluff, let all the obvious blame for the harm to the country fall on the republicans(because any one who really thinks about it knows it is all their fault for kicking the can down the street all these years and for playing power politics with the countries economic health) and then do what we want after the 2012 election when not a single republican wins or retains office.

Seriously cp, it would really help if you could look at all critically at republicans. When you post tripe like this poll, it's just laughable.
 
dang.


okay, so so far we have 6 votes for passing it, 3 votes for passing it after inflicting some pain in hopes of gaining a political advantage, and 1 vote in favor of a roughly 40% cut in federal spending. anyone want to self-identify?
 
Holy push polling!

To make my reply in the nature of your post: Since republicans only care about spending when it is democrats who do it, I would call their bluff, let all the obvious blame for the harm to the country fall on the republicans(because any one who really thinks about it knows it is all their fault for kicking the can down the street all these years and for playing power politics with the countries economic health) and then do what we want after the 2012 election when not a single republican wins or retains office.

Seriously cp, it would really help if you could look at all critically at republicans. When you post tripe like this poll, it's just laughable.

apparently you didn't read the context of the question. I will refrain from accusing you of being a liar, and simply point out your error. :)

the question is: should Republicans send up a debt ceiling hike that doesn't go past the next election (which is what the President wants) that is tied to only spending cuts, should the Democrats pass it anyway to avoid what they claim would be catastrophic consequences?

if you want to discuss whether or not Republicans would be blamed for being the only group in the room to have actually put forth a plan to raise the debt ceiling, then we can do that - but lets' maybe not accuse each other of dishonesty simply because we disagree :).
 
Ergo: more than a few conservatives are proposing that the House go ahead and pass a debt - ceiling increase matched to spending cuts of their choosing.

I just have one question. Who decides the spending cuts and what will they be? I mean, which House?
 
Dems should do exactly what they want most, love most, and crave most - hold out for higher taxes. Are they principled or are they not? If they do anything less, even if it costs them the presidency, remember! - they have sold out their base and made deals to benefit the rich.

Put up or shut up already.
 
apparently you didn't read the context of the question. I will refrain from accusing you of being a liar, and simply point out your error. :)

the question is: should Republicans send up a debt ceiling hike that doesn't go past the next election (which is what the President wants) that is tied to only spending cuts, should the Democrats pass it anyway to avoid what they claim would be catastrophic consequences?

if you want to discuss whether or not Republicans would be blamed for being the only group in the room to have actually put forth a plan to raise the debt ceiling, then we can do that - but lets' maybe not accuse each other of dishonesty simply because we disagree :).

I think you missed the point. I was making fun of your style in the OP.
 
I just have one question. Who decides the spending cuts and what will they be? I mean, which House?

It will be the House making the bill - though they might find it better to stick to cuts that were part of the original Biden talks.
 
I think you missed the point. I was making fun of your style in the OP.

then address it. do you have evidence (for example) that all that time Obama spent calling for a "clean" debt ceiling hike he was secretly on the phone with John Boehner urging some kind of major cuts?
 
Moderator's Warning:
The admins cannot edit the poll to change it to "Public" either - sorry.
 
well that's unfortunate. I doubt anyone is going to tell us that they voted to scare seniors for political points.




anywho, it's looking like some version of this may be what happens, Republicans look to be getting ready to go solo:

Boehner: ‘Get Ready’

At a closed-door conference meeting this morning, Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans that GOP leaders and the White House remain poles apart as the debt-ceiling deadline looms...

Boehner, according to sources who were inside of the room, emphasized that moving forward, “We have to make tough decisions to save our country, so get ready to do it.” Others in the GOP leadership, such as House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, reiterated that message, telling members that as the debt-limit impasse continues, Republicans will hustle next week to pass “cut, cap, and balance,” a fiscal-reform package sponsored by the Republican Study Committee (RSC), a leading conservative caucus.

Under the “cut, cap, and balance” legislation, Congress would agree to increase the debt ceiling by $2.5 trillion (the amount requested by President Obama to get him through the 2012 election), but only if a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution were approved by two-thirds majorities in both houses and sent to the states for ratification. In addition, the plan calls for significant spending cuts to next year’s budget — more than $100 billion — and a firm cap on federal spending at 18.5 percent of GDP....

In terms of floor strategy, House GOP leaders said the RSC plan will probably come first; then, pending passage, Republicans will move to consider a related balanced-budget amendment — one that they hope will attract Democrats, whose votes would be needed to pass the amendment should “cut, cap, and balance” find itself curbed in the Senate, where Democrats still hold control.

Speaking at a press conference after the meeting, Boehner announced as much, telling reporters that “time and again Republicans have offered serious proposals to cut spending and address these issues, and I think it’s time for the Democrats to get serious as well.” Looking ahead, he said that he does not want to “preclude any chance of coming to an agreement,” but with Democrats “unwilling to put a real plan on the table,” he was ready to take action unilaterally....

Next week, House GOP aides tell us Republicans will be focused on the “cut, cap, and balance” rollout, and then on the balanced-budget amendment. They will largely let Boehner continue to push for cuts as members make a vocal case for fiscal discipline on the House floor. “There really are two people in this conversation, two different voices,” says freshman representative James Lankford (R., Okla.). “One that thinks the crisis is the impending vote and one that thinks the crisis is the debt.”...

That said, most members are open to raising the debt limit, aides say — as long as they can go back to their districts with, as one staffer puts it, “concrete, heavy blocks of legislation.” Come late July, another aide explains, Republicans want to be able to tell their constituents that they did all they could to enact conservative reforms in a divided government. On Capitol Hill, at least, that pressure appears to be as strong as the pressure for Boehner and Obama to cut a deal.
 
well that's unfortunate. I doubt anyone is going to tell us that they voted to scare seniors for political points.




anywho, it's looking like some version of this may be what happens, Republicans look to be getting ready to go solo:

Boehner: ‘Get Ready’

At a closed-door conference meeting this morning, Speaker John Boehner told House Republicans that GOP leaders and the White House remain poles apart as the debt-ceiling deadline looms...

Boehner, according to sources who were inside of the room, emphasized that moving forward, “We have to make tough decisions to save our country, so get ready to do it.” Others in the GOP leadership, such as House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, reiterated that message, telling members that as the debt-limit impasse continues, Republicans will hustle next week to pass “cut, cap, and balance,” a fiscal-reform package sponsored by the Republican Study Committee (RSC), a leading conservative caucus.

Under the “cut, cap, and balance” legislation, Congress would agree to increase the debt ceiling by $2.5 trillion (the amount requested by President Obama to get him through the 2012 election), but only if a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution were approved by two-thirds majorities in both houses and sent to the states for ratification. In addition, the plan calls for significant spending cuts to next year’s budget — more than $100 billion — and a firm cap on federal spending at 18.5 percent of GDP....

In terms of floor strategy, House GOP leaders said the RSC plan will probably come first; then, pending passage, Republicans will move to consider a related balanced-budget amendment — one that they hope will attract Democrats, whose votes would be needed to pass the amendment should “cut, cap, and balance” find itself curbed in the Senate, where Democrats still hold control.

Speaking at a press conference after the meeting, Boehner announced as much, telling reporters that “time and again Republicans have offered serious proposals to cut spending and address these issues, and I think it’s time for the Democrats to get serious as well.” Looking ahead, he said that he does not want to “preclude any chance of coming to an agreement,” but with Democrats “unwilling to put a real plan on the table,” he was ready to take action unilaterally....

Next week, House GOP aides tell us Republicans will be focused on the “cut, cap, and balance” rollout, and then on the balanced-budget amendment. They will largely let Boehner continue to push for cuts as members make a vocal case for fiscal discipline on the House floor. “There really are two people in this conversation, two different voices,” says freshman representative James Lankford (R., Okla.). “One that thinks the crisis is the impending vote and one that thinks the crisis is the debt.”...

That said, most members are open to raising the debt limit, aides say — as long as they can go back to their districts with, as one staffer puts it, “concrete, heavy blocks of legislation.” Come late July, another aide explains, Republicans want to be able to tell their constituents that they did all they could to enact conservative reforms in a divided government. On Capitol Hill, at least, that pressure appears to be as strong as the pressure for Boehner and Obama to cut a deal.

And their constituents will believe them.

The center probably won't.
 
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