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Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?

Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

  • Total voters
    128
Blackdog said:
It has everything to do with the point I made and you tried to derail.
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No. We already know that Christians have to accept Christ, I don't think anyone has debated this.

Blackdog said:
I did not "pick" anything. If they are "Christians" they are submitting or supposed to God's will, not their own.

Matthew 11:28-29 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest," he added, "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me."
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I worded that poorly. I wasn't saying that you were "picking" things. I was saying that you were reducing other peoples' beliefs to them "picking things in order to fit a lifestyle".


Blackdog said:
Lets see...

It doesn't matter how good a person is. That is a control thing. One of the things that has led some people, such as myself, away from Christianity, because I choose to believe that a good God would look into a person's heart and not be so petty as to expect people to believe in a book, such as the Bible, just because people thousands of years ago believed that they were telling others what God wanted and how to get to Heaven. I believe that God does not care what religion people follow or what small petty rules a person obeys, as long as they essentially live by the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and try to love each other. All the rest of the rules, including those about homosexuality and others, seem to me to be something that men would care about, not God. That is why I don't trust the Bible, because it does not fit with what my view of a good God is and it could have easily been manipulated by any of the many people who were responsible for it, from the writers of the text to the compilers and the translators and the changers.

Please read next time. I am certain you can now figure out the rest.
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Like I said, nothing suggests picking and choosing to justify. What you highlighted suggests having a belief about God in your heart and mind and not seeing it in certain Christian teachings.

Blackdog said:
Absolutely and unlike you or Nuke, I have posted historical evidence saying you are both wrong. So where is your proof as lip service means little in the realm of debate.
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I'm sorry. We must be having a different conversation. My arguments have always been that Christianity preaches (in addition to love) "obey me or you're going to hell" and that the history of Christianity shows how MEN have used this as means of holding power over nations and populations. These are just facts.

The Word of God said:
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather from his kingdom everything that causes sin as well as all lawbreakers. 50 and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:50

For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him. John 3:16, 36
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That's pretty fear invoking and a fantastic way to control people as the Catholic Church did for centuries until the printing press and that many churches still work from today.

Blackdog said:
Best excuse I have heard all day. You know what they say about excuses?
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Yeah, that it's a word people use to discredit explanations they don't want to hear. It's too bad.

Blackdog said:
You do realize I am talking specifically about those who say they are Christian, right? :doh I mean that has only been my argument for the whole thread. :doh
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Then why would you even respond to Nuke's posts the way you did about her own beliefs when she isn't even a Christian.

This is what you said:
Blackdog said:
So in other words you like so many want to make up your own God based on Christian teachings but ignore most of it because it does not fit in with your lifestyle or whatever.
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In response to this:
roguenuke said:
One of the things that has led some people, such as myself, away from Christianity, because I choose to believe that a good God ...
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That line of yours is what I've been criticizing this entire time and since Nuke moved "away from Christianity", I assumed we were both talking about non-Christians (although most of my arguments work for Christians as well).


Blackdog said:
Not if they call themselves Christian. What part of this did you miss? Or is it because you have absolutely no evidence to back up the rest of your argument?
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What do you think my argument is if you don't think there's proof? Moreover, when did you limit this to Christians since the post you originally criticized was filled with personal arguments made by a non-Christian. Hahaha.
 
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theplaydrive said:
No. We already know that Christians have to accept Christ, I don't think anyone has debated this.
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So if they do this, wouldn’t the book assembled about him be part of that?
theplaydrive said:
I worded that poorly. I wasn't saying that you were "picking" things. I was saying that you were reducing other peoples' beliefs to them "picking things in order to fit a lifestyle".
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It’s true in the case of more than a few posters here. You were not involved in those conversations.
theplaydrive said:
Like I said, nothing suggests picking and choosing to justify. What you highlighted suggests having a belief about God in your heart and mind and not seeing it in certain Christian teachings.
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Only because you have not been in the many debates I have had with people here.
So I guess you don’t know who I was talking about.
theplaydrive said:
I'm sorry. We must be having a different conversation. My arguments have always been that Christianity preaches (in addition to love) "obey me or you're going to hell" and that the history of Christianity shows how MEN have used this as means of holding power over nations and populations. These are just facts.
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Got you and Kal mixed up, happens when responding to 3 or 4 people at one time.
Men have used this as power, but this is no reflection on the Bible or its teachings which say the opposite.
theplaydrive said:
That's pretty fear invoking and a fantastic way to control people as the Catholic Church did for centuries until the printing press and that many churches still work from today.
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Already covered this above.
theplaydrive said:
Yeah, that it's a word people use to discredit explanations they don't want to hear. It's too bad.
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Or it’s a response to people with no argument to begin with. Since I thought you were talking about the conspiracy theory.
theplaydrive said:
Then why would you even respond to Nuke's posts the way you did about her own beliefs when she isn't even a Christian.
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Because she was and did not like what the Bible had to say about the nature of God, so she made her own God. Goes exactly to what I was saying even if not a Christian.
theplaydrive said:
That line of yours is what I've been criticizing this entire time and since Nuke moved "away from Christianity", I assumed we were both talking about non-Christians (although most of my arguments work for Christians as well).
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No it just helped reinforce my point. Again part of the problem is I got you and Kal rolled into one person.
theplaydrive said:
What do you think my argument is if you don't think there's proof? Moreover, when did you limit this to Christians since the post you originally criticized was filled with personal arguments made by a non-Christian. Hahaha.
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Again thought I was responding to Kal. His argument about the nonexistent church cover up etc. is what I was talking about.
 
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Blackdog said:
So even though no evidence at all exist to say otherwise, this must be the case? Well I guess we can't trust any history then because conspiracy theory's are so much more credible.
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There is no evidence that God exists...yet both you and I believe that He does. Besides that though it is human nature, particularly of those in power, to hide things from other people. Particularly those that they think are "lower" (IE peasents) than them.

Blackdog said:
I have a tin foil hate for sale? I mean really man, no proof, just conjecture on your part. I mean what the hell do thousands of years worth of biblical scholars and historians know anyway, charlatans! :lol:
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If you truely think that you know everything or that the government tells you everything then I'd suggest taking a look at wikileaks. Remember the coverup of that helicopter killing those civilians? If it hadn't been for wikileaks we never would have known about it.

As for your "biblical scholars"...for at least a couple thousand years the only actual scholars were of the church. And when an outside scholar came along that wasn't apart of the church do you think that they just let him/her know all of thier secrets? Hell, you can't even get into the archives of the Vatican unless specially invited.
 
Blackdog said:
I told you take it for what you will. Has nothing to do with my arguments or the points I have made.

Trying to get back on topic, but people keep coming up with already refuted stuff we have gone over many times already. Have nothing to do with Gay's and natural or unnatural, just attacks on Christians or the core principles of said religion.
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The title of the thread is also about sin...not just it being "unnatural". As such discussion about the Bible, Koran, or any other religion is quite valid. Being as a Mod hasn't spoken up about getting back on track then I can only assume that they agree...at least I can until a mod speaks up. ;)
 
Kal'Stang said:
There is no evidence that God exists...yet both you and I believe that He does. Besides that though it is human nature, particularly of those in power, to hide things from other people. Particularly those that they think are "lower" (IE peasents) than them.
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No evidence, no reasonable reason other than somehow it could have happened?

Like I said tinfoil hat stuff. I have shown documented proof and you have shown, nothing.

Kal'Stang said:
If you truely think that you know everything or that the government tells you everything then I'd suggest taking a look at wikileaks. Remember the coverup of that helicopter killing those civilians? If it hadn't been for wikileaks we never would have known about it.
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What does Wikileaks and the US government have to do with the "well known" Christian books being assembled into one volume? :shock: They were not the government. In fact putting them all together in one place was the worst thing they could do for control.

Answer my other posts you ignored or at least read them. I know you will not or can't because you have no argument, none.

Kal'Stang said:
As for your "biblical scholars"...for at least a couple thousand years the only actual scholars were of the church.
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Yes it was. At the time many of the books circulated and were well known. From the Torah to the Gospels etc. None were hidden and 99.9% still exist today. You can read them online as well.

Kal'Stang said:
And when an outside scholar came along that wasn't apart of the church do you think that they just let him/her know all of thier secrets? Hell, you can't even get into the archives of the Vatican unless specially invited.
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What outside scholar did they hide anything from? Oh the one you just made up? :lol:
 
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Kal'Stang said:
The title of the thread is also about sin...not just it being "unnatural".
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Oh I thought the title was...

Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

Guess you know as much about the title of the thread as you do about Bible history?

The OP mentioned sin, not the title.

Kal'Stang said:
As such discussion about the Bible, Koran, or any other religion is quite valid.
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Did not say it was not. Huge difference between discussing sin and just making attacks on Christin doctrine, like in your case with no proof. :lol:

Kal'Stang said:
Being as a Mod hasn't spoken up about getting back on track then I can only assume that they agree...at least I can until a mod speaks up. ;)
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OK no problem. I will then continue to make your no evidence conspiracy theory argument look stupid. No problem. :mrgreen:
 
Blackdog said:
No evidence, no reasonable reason other than somehow it could have happened?

Like I said tinfoil hat stuff. I have shown documented proof and you have shown, nothing.
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You've shown no proof that they didn't hide anything. Granted the ability to find or have such proof has long since vanished into history. For that reason I am basing my arguement entirely on logic, and understanding human behavior.

Blackdog said:
What does Wikileaks and the US government have to do with the "well known" Christian books being assembled into one volume? :shock: They were not the government. In fact putting them all together in one place was the worst thing they could do for control.
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Wikileaks and the US government were examples of those in power hiding things from the general public. You were claiming that what I have been saying is nothing but conspiracies when I asked you if you thought...and I'll quote here...

Do you know everything that our government does? Do you believe that they do things that we never find out about (IE no proof of)? Do you think that they falsify documents? If you answered yes then why is the same not applied to those that wrote the bible?
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Your answer was of offering to sell me a tin foil hat. Now note the bolded part and you will see how I am using it to refer to the Bible.

Blackdog said:
Answer my other posts you ignored or at least read them. I know you will not or can't because you have no argument, none.
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AFAIK I have answered every post that you have directed at me. But just to be clear if you are still refering to this one again....

Blackdog said:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/99998-homosexuality-sinful-and-unnatural-142.html#post1059558866 <---Never even responded to this one.
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I did respond to it. Page 145 Post #1448. And yes...I also responded to the one that I got that quote from. Page 146 Post #1460. Now if there were any others please feel free to remind me of them. Because like I said...AFAIK I have responded to each of the posts that you have directed at me.

Blackdog said:
Yes it was. At the time many of the books circulated and were well known. From the Torah to the Gospels etc. None were hidden and 99.9% still exist today. You can read them online as well.
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First...as far as you know none were hidden. Second the only ones of the time that could even read were those of the church. It was extremely rare for a peasent to be able to read. At those times the only ones that could were Kings (and even that was doubtful at times if I remember correctly) and members of the church. Who were required to learn reading so that they could preach to the masses.

Blackdog said:
What outside scholar did they hide anything from? Oh the one you just made up? :lol:
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So do you really think that they let outsiders know thier every secret? That those in power hid absolutely NOTHING from what would be considered pagans?
 
Blackdog said:
Oh I thought the title was...

Is homosexuality wrong and/or unnatural?

Guess you know as much about the title of the thread as you do about Bible history?

The OP mentioned sin, not the title.
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Attempted baiting recognized and ignored. But perhaps you should re-read the thread title. It is "Is Homosexuality sinful and/or unnatural?" (That was directly copy/pasted)

Blackdog said:
Did not say it was not. Huge difference between discussing sin and just making attacks on Christin doctrine, like in your case with no proof. :lol:
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I'm not making attacks on Christian Doctrine. I'm making attacks on those that wrote the bible. Which is what you base your doctrine upon. By showing that the Bible was written by man for greed and power I show that what is in the bible and what the bible says is sinful is full of bunk. By doing that I show that homosexuality is not sinful (at least as far as Christianity is concerned). We all base our arguements on different things. I chose this route. Others can choose differing ones if they want. There is certainly plenty of ways to argue this subject.

Blackdog said:
OK no problem. I will then continue to make your no evidence conspiracy theory argument look stupid. No problem. :mrgreen:
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Again, baiting acknowledged and will be ignored. ;)

Despite what you may think I am being quite serious in my postings here. I am not trying to make fun of you or disparage you in anyway. So please, leave the bait tactics on the side.
 
Just to clear something up, I am not Christian, because I cannot honestly say that I believe that Jesus was actually God on Earth, nor can I honestly believe that believing in him is the only way to God. I have not claimed to be Christian since I was in my teens (the only reason my enlistment paperwork said I was Catholic was because my mom and grandma went with me to the recruiters the first time, and told the recruiter that "we" were Catholic, it was unknown to me at the time that that particular fact would even go into my paperwork). That does not make sense to me because it leaves out a lot of people who would still be living by his words/teachings, even if they have never known about him or are like me and just can't say that they know for sure or learned something different about Jesus in their own religions. In my reasoning and belief about what kind of God might have created us, God would not do something like this.

But I can easily see men claiming that believing this about Jesus, and by the way they set things up and the pure fact that many people couldn't read nor write a couple of thousand years ago, this would mean that most people would have to go through the church and/or clergy to get to Heaven. This gives people in the church power. And this particular belief would even fit with the one transcript that the church admits to have destroyed, apparently.

I do not believe homosexuality is a sin because it does not break the rule of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" in any way shape or form, and that is what Jesus preached. The "do unto others" rule is a general rule that works well in almost every religion for finding the way to a happy afterlife. It is what makes the most sense from all the various religions, especially major religions. This seems a fairly reasonable rule for finding happiness and what any supreme being/life would want people to do. This is what the majority of society seems to want too.
 
Removable Mind said:
OMG...

Don't waste your time. This thread has become a circle jerk event.

I'm in my den moving my toes up and down. You have no way of knowing that I'm doing what I claim. Whether I'm actually doing what I claim - you just have to take my word for it.

My point is: There are a lot of claims with no supporting sources for arguments, Ya dig?
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Well if you dont want to discuss it thas fine with me. Although I do maintain that there is evidence that homosexuality is not a choice.
 
*Revisited*

2nd salvo?
 
Wake said:
Is homosexuality sinful or unnatural? Why?

Do you think it sinless and natural? Why?

Can you prove your claim?
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The entire notion of "Sin" is a man made concept and one that is unprovable as well.

Homosexuality should only be a concern if the homosexuals in question are infringing upon your rights...

...otherwise those that are concerned about it being wrong or unnatural are only exhibiting bigotry...
 
obvious Child said:
As a straight single male, I am all for male homosexuality.

It's like college. The ratio gets skewed in your favor.
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Having a homosexual friend or two is great at clubs. Best wingman I ever had was a flaming gay guy.
 
roguenuke said:
Just to clear something up, I am not Christian, because I cannot honestly say that I believe that Jesus was actually God on Earth
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Can you honestly say that Jesus was "on" Earth?
 
StillBallin75 said:
my gay friends get more girls than we do when we go out...blehhh
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That's my point. We ge the overflow. We get the good comments from the guys that the girls can trust...
 
Bodhisattva said:
Can you honestly say that Jesus was "on" Earth?
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I have no idea. I believe there was a great holy person named Jesus (or something that translates to Jesus) sometime in our past, given the fact that such a person is mentioned in at least two different holy books and has such a huge following of people.

But, no, I didn't see him. But, then again, I also didn't actually see Julius Ceasar, Alexander the Great, or Mary, Queen of Scots either, but I believe they existed from what was written about them.
 
Thunder said:
it is sinful according to the Old Testament of the Bible, who's laws & restrictions are NO LONGER valid, according to Christianity.
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*Sigh* ...it's also a sin according to the New Testament. That's not up for debate. What is, though, is whether we should adhere to the Bible's scripture or change the Bible according to modern society.
 
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