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Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

Do the Democrats have a serious candidate for 2012?

  • Yes, Obama is the President. How much more serious can you get?

    Votes: 6 54.5%

  • Yes, better to go with what you have than go through the primary process.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, time to open it up to Hillary or Lieberman or some more rational Democrat candidate

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Heck no, I wouldn't vote for any Democrat.

    Votes: 5 45.5%
  • Total voters
    11
Apocalypse said:
Your suggestion that one of the most credible researching polls facility out there (Gallup polls) is wrong and that you are right is not merely ignorant in inhuman levels but is also arrogant and ridiculous.
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Actually no one is saying that it's wrong. Just that it doesn't measure what you seem to think it does.
 
Kandahar said:
Actually no one is saying that it's wrong. Just that it doesn't measure what you seem to think it does.
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It measures what it claims to be measuring for, which is support for Israel. It is then when you come in and claim that support for Israel does not equal giving a **** about it, which I find to be contradicting to logic itself.
 
Apocalypse said:
I already said the obvious, voting for one when you can vote for none means you do support that one. That's the meaning of the poll. Let alone "give a **** about it" as you've phrased it.
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The somewhat silly poll (and the slightly more clear original post) specifically asks about how it will affect Obama's electoral prospects. That assumes something about intensity of conviction, which simply does not exist in most of the US electorate. For the most part, the only people who are going to blow a gasket over Obama's position on the Israel-Palestine conflict are hardcore right-wingers who wouldn't vote for him anyway.

The fact that 63% of Americans tell pollsters they favor Israel doesn't mean that 63% of Americans are going to vote for whichever candidate they think is more pro-Israel.
 
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Kandahar said:
The somewhat silly poll (and the slightly more clear original post) specifically asks about how it will affect Obama's electoral prospects. That assumes something about intensity of conviction, which simply does not exist in most of the US electorate. For the most part, the only people who are going to blow a gasket over Obama's position on the Israel-Palestine conflict are hardcore right-wingers who wouldn't vote for him anyway.

The fact that 63% of Americans tell pollsters they favor Israel doesn't mean that 63% of Americans are going to vote for whichever candidate they think is more pro-Israel.
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It does mean that they give a **** about it. You'd notice from my first post in this thread where I'm saying myself that the alliance between the US and Israel is really not such a significant factor in the coming elections. What I was rejecting though is the notion that the majority of Americans do not "give a **** about it", which was your claim. I don't see why I need to repeat it so many times since it comes to my understanding that it is clear to you by now they do give a **** about it.
 
Apparently, a number of pollsters haven't thought to ask how much of a priority Israel is to voters. Not a one of these polls mention Israel at all.

Priorities

Israel v Palestinians tells us about attitudes in re Israel v Palestinians.

What we need is a poll that compares Israel v the US economy etc.
 
Poll: Israel isn't top priority for US v... JPost - International
Poll: Israel isn't top priority for US voters, including Jews
Greer Fay Cashman
03/31/2008 22:44

Voters, including Jews, focus on economy, Iraq and health care.

Israel figures low on the totem pole for likely American voters, who are chiefly concerned with the economy and jobs followed by the situation in Iraq, affordable health care, terrorism and national security. These are the findings of a poll conducted among 800 respondents representing America's broad demographic range in terms of age, affluence, gender, ethnic background and religion. The telephone poll, conducted between March 18-20, was commissioned by The Israel Project, a nonpartisan Washington, DC, organization that works to strengthen Israel's image in the American media. Project founder and president Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi told a news conference in Jerusalem on Monday that even in the Jewish community, the majority of likely voters do not give priority to Israel. "Three quarters of the American Jewish community say that there are other issues more important than Israel," she said, saying only 23 percent of the Jewish population listed Israel as a top issue. The poll had a 3.5% margin of error. While 51% of the respondents acknowledged that the economy and jobs were their major concern, only 7% cited the Middle East conflict between Israel and the Palestinians and the threat of Iran.​
wall of text in the original

An old poll
 
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Still not exactly what we're looking for

Post-election analysis: It


Here's a mixed set of predictions
Obama's Israel policy could loom large as midterm election issue in key races - TheHill.com
The executive director of the Republican Jewish Coalition (RJC), Matthew Brooks, said that “despite the warm and fuzzy photo-op” between Obama and Netanyahu, Jewish voters “are rightly troubled and rightly concerned” about the U.S. relationship with Israel.

“I’d characterize the relationship as very cool,” Brooks said.

Brooks said Democratic candidates would have to choose between defending Obama’s record on Israel on one side and “standing with the Jewish community” on the other. “It’s going to be a very uncomfortable place for them,” he said.

The president said after the meeting with Netanyahu that the U.S. bond with Israel is “unbreakable,” and Democrats say GOP attempts to question Obama’s support for Israel represent a familiar — but failed — strategy. The RJC in particular warned during the 2008 presidential campaign that Obama would be hostile to Israel as president; Obama went on to win 78 percent of the Jewish vote, better than Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) in 2004.

The U.S.-Israel alliance “has never been stronger or more strategically aligned than it is today,” said David Harris, president of the National Jewish Democratic Council.​
 
Apocalypse said:
Your suggestion that one of the most credible researching polls facility out there (Gallup polls) is wrong and that you are right is not merely ignorant in inhuman levels but is also arrogant and ridiculous.
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No gallup is right, in a poll of rote palestine vs israel its not a measure of interest level.
You are wrong.
You dont know that the poll doesnt support your point.
Click the link in my post.
Gawd.
:doh
 
SE102 said:
No gallup is right, in a poll of rote palestine vs israel its not a measure of interest level.
You are wrong.
You dont know that the poll doesnt support your point.
Click the link in my post.
Gawd.
:doh
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What link?
I've already debunked your argument here by pointing out the fact that "neither/no opinion" was an option in the Gallup poll, what you're doing now is being in denial and are ignoring that fact.
 
Apocalypse said:
What link?
I've already debunked your argument here by pointing out the fact that "neither/no opinion" was an option in the Gallup poll, what you're doing now is being in denial and are ignoring that fact.
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Do you know how often people choose 'no opinion' for any poll on anything? Not very often.
 
Obama's most recent statements on Israel will have little to no effect on the Presidential Election. Those who are staunch in regards to the defense and alliance with Israel has mostly been displeased with Obama on his handling of Israel up to this point anyways, so shifting it from "disapproving" to "very disapproving" isn't going to really change many votes. I doubt there were many who were on the fence about him that are suddenly jumping over that fence now, considering if you felt how he's been treating Israel was only enough to put you on the fence then him saying essentially the same policy as Bush isn't likely to push you over it.

To those that Israel isn't the top concern for their pick of President, then I think there will be FAR more important issues that hurt or help Obama.

In regards to a "serious" candidate, that's a joke. The guy won handedly in 2008, is still polling about the 40% range, and still does well with his base.
 
Apocalypse said:
What link?
I've already debunked your argument here by pointing out the fact that "neither/no opinion" was an option in the Gallup poll, what you're doing now is being in denial and are ignoring that fact.
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How large iof a factor is Israel? Is it a greater factor than unemployment? Is it less than the concern about illegal immigration?
I think you may be able top use the poll you cited to show that it is a concern of Americans, but how much of a concern in relation to other issues american care about?
Is it a fringe issue? Is it a major concern?

We don't seem to have any direct evidence of the relative importance of it--which is the point of the OP.

It could be construed as falling under 'other' which, along with everything else in that category, polled as a concern for about 1% to 20% of Americans.
 
friday said:
We have heard a great deal of talk in recent days about how the GOP doesn't have a "serious" candidate. Compared to the GOP class of 2016, that may be true. But does the left have a serious candidate? Nevermind Obama's failed economic policies. Does his new anti-Israel policy of land ransoms to terrorist groups spell the end of his chances for re-election? Is it time for Democrats to find a pro-Israel candidate and hold a primary?
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Obama's position on Israel will not hurt him. Here is why.

1.Not everybody has their tongues up Israel's ass hole trying to toss their salad. To most people Israel is no different than any other country on the planet and deserves no special attention. Would you give a **** if a president said the same thing about some other country even it was our ally? Probably not. You let the fact Jesus was born there bias you/


2.People who vote for Obama are generally very liberal and not really religions at all therefore most likely to not give two ****s about Israel.

3.Not everybody gives a **** about Israel regardless of party affiliation or religious beliefs. Even if they are religious the see Christianity as the replacement for Judaism just like Windows seven is the replacement for Vista.

4. This is the most important part. Most people do not buy into the you are racist or anti-Semitic if you hate Israel, don't give two ****s about Israel or somewhat sympathize with the Palestinians. It's bad enough when libs try to use the phoney bologna race card and its just as bad when people calling themselves conservative do it to.
 
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SE102 said:
Do you know how often people choose 'no opinion' for any poll on anything? Not very often.
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Okay now you're just being weird.

Simon W. Moon said:
How large iof a factor is Israel? Is it a greater factor than unemployment? Is it less than the concern about illegal immigration?
I think you may be able top use the poll you cited to show that it is a concern of Americans, but how much of a concern in relation to other issues american care about?
Is it a fringe issue? Is it a major concern?

We don't seem to have any direct evidence of the relative importance of it--which is the point of the OP.
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I wasn't discussing the OP. I was referring to the first comment of the second page in this thread. The second comment of that very same page in this thread is a comment of mine where I'm saying that the Israeli-US alliance is not such a significant factor in the coming elections, certainly not a decisive one that would differ between the identity of the elected president.

Here:

Apocalypse said:
I also doubt it is such a significant factor in the elections of a president in the US.
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Chappy said:
The thread title: Does Obama's Israel Policy Mean a 2012 GOP Win?

The poll question: Do the Democrats have a serious candidate for 2012?

Maybe the the thread title and the poll question could be the same?
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agreed.................
 
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