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Should Military Chaplains Be Allowed to Perform Same Sex Marriages?

Should Military Chaplains be allowed to perform Same Sex marriages?


  • Total voters
    38
As I have said before, show me how from the exact wording of DOMA and with the laws/rules that a military chaplain faces when performing a wedding for any state, no matter what the sexes are of those involved in the wedding ceremony. Showing how a military chaplain is different using the laws is the way to prove me wrong. Just insisting that you are right doesn't cut it. I want to see why a military chaplain signing a state marriage license for someone is violating some rule or law.

I just did. Section three of DOMA defines marriage as between a man and a woman. Google DOMA and read it, Rogue.
 
I just did. Section three of DOMA defines marriage as between a man and a woman. Google DOMA and read it, Rogue.

I did, and it specifically references that it is to be used in determining the meaning of any Act of Congress or in any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various branches and bureaus of the government.

Defense of Marriage Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So which of those things is a chaplain conducting a ceremony and signing a legal state document involved in? The military chaplain is not signing a federal legal document when he signs a marriage license, but rather a state legal document. As far as I see, it is none of those since there is no recognition being given for the marriage by the military. The chaplain is just conducting a ceremony and providing his signature to the license of the state that both participants on the license really did agree to wed each other, which he is authorized to do legally in each state he is stationed in.
 
I did, and it specifically references that it is to be used in determining the meaning of any Act of Congress or in any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various branches and bureaus of the government.

Defense of Marriage Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So which of those things is a chaplain conducting a ceremony and signing a legal state document involved in? The military chaplain is not signing a federal legal document when he signs a marriage license, but rather a state legal document. As far as I see, it is none of those since there is no recognition being given for the marriage by the military. The chaplain is just conducting a ceremony and providing his signature to the license of the state that both participants on the license really did agree to wed each other, which he is authorized to do legally in each state he is stationed in.

By doing so, the Military Officer is violating federal law by ignoring it's legal definition of marriage. It doesn't mean a damn thing who he's doing it for or where he's doing it. He's bound by that legal definition. I can't reword this anymore....if you don't get it, go ask a lawyer. JAG or one familiar with military regulations.
 
By doing so, the Military Officer is violating federal law by ignoring it's legal definition of marriage. It doesn't mean a damn thing who he's doing it for or where he's doing it. He's bound by that legal definition. I can't reword this anymore....if you don't get it, go ask a lawyer. JAG or one familiar with military regulations.
The federal government is not bound legally to recognize the marriage. So where is the violation?
 
By doing so, the Military Officer is violating federal law by ignoring it's legal definition of marriage. It doesn't mean a damn thing who he's doing it for or where he's doing it. He's bound by that legal definition. I can't reword this anymore....if you don't get it, go ask a lawyer. JAG or one familiar with military regulations.

It is only a legal definition in concern of federal recognition, which has nothing to do with state recognition. A chaplain is authorized to sign marriage licenses by each state, not the federal government, since states are the ones that issue marriage licenses, not the federal government. Each military member still has to request legal recognition for their marriage from their chain of command, which would not be given to a same sex couple, no matter who signed their marriage license, due to DOMA.

I really just can't wait til DOMA goes down because then this whole argument will be over anyway and will we see equal treatment of everyone, in regards to marriage, no matter what sex they or their chosen partner are.
 
By doing so, the Military Officer is violating federal law by ignoring it's legal definition of marriage. It doesn't mean a damn thing who he's doing it for or where he's doing it. He's bound by that legal definition. I can't reword this anymore....if you don't get it, go ask a lawyer. JAG or one familiar with military regulations.

Exactly how does a miltary chaplain marrying a same sex couple force the federal government to recognize that marriage?
 
Exactly how does a miltary chaplain marrying a same sex couple force the federal government to recognize that marriage?

It seems like mac doesn't realize that there is a difference between legal marriage, and religious marriage.
 
Exactly how does a miltary chaplain marrying a same sex couple force the federal government to recognize that marriage?

What it does is violate his oath To support and defend the constitution of the united states of america.
 
It seems like mac doesn't realize that there is a difference between legal marriage, and religious marriage.

I realize that just fine. What you don't realize is that in this case the difference means squat.
 
I realize that just fine. What you don't realize is that in this case the difference means squat.

How would this be any different than a priest preforming a SSM?
 
What it does is violate his oath To support and defend the constitution of the united states of america.

Exactly where in the Constitution does it say that a chaplain will not marry two people of the same sex in a state that recognizes same sex marriages?
 
How would this be any different than a priest preforming a SSM?

Are you at all familiar with the us military or the whole other legal code we are subject too in addition to us law?

The difference is that he is not just a priest...he's a military officer.
 
What it does is violate his oath To support and defend the constitution of the united states of america.


Is marriage even in the Constitution?
 
Exactly where in the Constitution does it say that a chaplain will not marry two people of the same sex in a state that recognizes same sex marriages?

By swearing to uphold the constitution we also swear to uphold and obey federal law.
 
I wold think it'd depend on if the state allows same sex marriage...

I also personally believe it shouldn't be aloud because it's the military. But now that theres not a don't ask don't tell bill anything goes...
 
By swearing to uphold the constitution we also swear to uphold and obey federal law.

Okay, what federal law says that a chaplain in the Navy cannot marry a same sex couple in a state that recognizes same sex marriage?
 
Okay, what federal law says that a chaplain in the Navy cannot marry a same sex couple in a state that recognizes same sex marriage?

I've answered this at least once per page over the last ten pages. DOMA defines marriage as between a man and a woman. That is a legal, federal, definition. The military chaplain can not perform a ceremony that violates that legal definition, regardless ofnthe location or the local laws. The military officer is never off duty and is never not subject to federal law.
 
Okay, what federal law says that a chaplain in the Navy cannot marry a same sex couple in a state that recognizes same sex marriage?

I would assume DOMA. Where the Federal govt. gets the authority to regulate marriage, I don't know.
 
I've answered this at least once per page over the last ten pages. DOMA defines marriage as between a man and a woman. That is a legal, federal, definition. The military chaplain can not perform a ceremony that violates that legal definition, regardless ofnthe location or the local laws. The military officer is never off duty and is never not subject to federal law.

Could they perform a "committment ceremony?" You'd think that they'd retain their right to free exercise of their religion.

The question is, is DOMA constitutional or not? I'd have to think a lot of Conservatives suspect it isn't, or they wouldn't feel any need for an amendment.
 
The military chaplain can not perform a ceremony that violates that legal definition, regardless of the location or the local laws. The military officer is never off duty and is never not subject to federal law.

Okay, exactly how does performing a same sex marriage ceremony that is not recognized by the federal government in any legal sense, violate the federal legal definition of marriage?
 
Are you at all familiar with the us military or the whole other legal code we are subject too in addition to us law?

The difference is that he is not just a priest...he's a military officer.

But if he is acting in a purely religious ceremony how would it effect the legal recognition? How is it not against the 1st Amendment to deny the rights of people to preform a religious ceremony?
 
Yes anywhere and any time they want. Same with any priest or reverend or rabbi or imam. If they want to, they can. That's it. Take government out of it.
 
Could they perform a "committment ceremony?" You'd think that they'd retain their right to free exercise of their religion.

No. A military officer can not even appear to be intentionally violating law.

The question is, is DOMA constitutional or not? I'd have to think a lot of Conservatives suspect it isn't, or they wouldn't feel any need for an amendment.

That's not for the military officer to second guess. It's federal law, and so long as it is, we must obey it.
 
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